Your next car?

WetMyBeak · February 5, 2017

I plan to keep my IS250 for a further 18/24 months and like to browse the auto trader website for new car ideas. I have to say I've been very impressed with my first Lexus and have looked at the CT200h as a possible 'upgrade' but I believe the ride can be quite firm? Obviously, performance wise it's a different beast to the 250 but then you get the better MPG. Also considering a Quashqai/CRV for practicality. I'd be interested to know what forum members may have looked at to replace their IS. I know there's a lot of love for these cars on here and rightly so, but nothing lasts forever!

madasahatter · February 5, 2017

I quite fancy a Gs300 next love the view of the front, rears another thing thou. Silver with a black interior probably.

Brechin Slate · February 5, 2017

As a professional driver I had the opportunity to drive just about every road car made in the last 10 years. I would say that the IS 250 SE is up with the best of them at that price point and for various reasons it's the best car I've owned. The Lexus dealers are renowned for their great customer service and I won't be looking any further when I buy again. The Qashqai? Are you sure? The Nissan dealers themselves admit (privately) that they are often embarrassed to sell them, especially the first series. I've yet to meet a pro driver who has bought one. In the end though, it's down to personal choice but I always remember the equation:

Satisfaction = Experience - Expectation

If you do go for the CT200h, please write a review for us and let us know how the car is from an owners perspective. Personally I'm looking at the RC300h.

Edited February 5, 2017 by Brechin Slate
Typo

WetMyBeak · February 5, 2017

7 minutes ago, Brechin Slate said:

As a professional driver I had the opportunity to drive just about every road car made in the last 10 years. I would say that the IS 250 SE is up with the best of them at that price point and for various reasons it's the best car I've owned. The Lexus dealers are renowned for their great customer service and I won't be looking any further when I buy again. The Qashqai? Are you sure? The Nissan dealers themselves admit (privately) that they are often embarrassed to sell them, especially the first series. I've yet to meet a pro driver who has bought one. In the end though, it's down to personal choice but I always remember the equation:

Satisfaction = Experience - Expectation

If you do go for the CT200h, please write a review for us and let us know how the car is from an owners perspective. Personally I'm looking at the RC300h.

I agree on the IS, best car I've owned as an overall package. The others listed are just general ideas, I'd probably take the CRV over the Quashqai having owned a good few Hondas. I forgot to throw in the 300h but slightly out of my price range at the minute. Also, the quoted mpgs for the hybrids seem to be a way off real world figures owners report.

madasahatter · February 5, 2017

Nissan dealers are terrible, last one i owned i had no satisfaction rectifying a problem. So went to head office in uk who were worse still. May of changed

but a leopard never changes its spots where i am concerned.

Linas.P · February 5, 2017

@WetMyBeak I would just say CT... is in no way upgrade for IS - even 10 years old.

Your question is very relevant to me as well, because I am planning upgrade as well in similar schedule as yours. I have not considered CT ever, have driven 3 different ones over time an never been impressed, not even with MPG. Maybe better to say "lack of power to MPG ratio".

Now quite obvious contender is mk3 IS, but I just literary hate engine options - 200t is engine suitable for Golf GTI and not for luxury saloon - trashy, noisy and feels under powered under any circumstance etc. IS300h kind of more suitable for the car, but again "lack of power to MPG ratio" is similar to CT. Additionally, I am not that big fan of mk3 looks - I know they tried to make kind of striking looks to maybe appeal some "younger drivers" aka pop queen Lady Gaga style, but it is neither striking enough to stand out, nor refined and understated enough to replace mk2. Finally, if I look to the the level of comfort I have in my current IS250SEL and the level of equipment - mk3 is hardly an upgrade... few gimmick features here and there for 3-4 times the price?! Honestly, if I would have no car at all and would be looking to buy the car with say £20k, I would just go for good condition mk2 and keep £13k for 3 years fully comprehensive motoring and would probably still have money left afterwards. In that sense nothing has changed for maybe 4 years now - mk2 Lexus IS250SEL is the best "value" you can get for you £. As an interim "upgrade" I though of mk3 IS250 - yes that is right in 2013 they made new shape IS250 and that is the only reasonable engine in the mk3 (obviously same 4GR-FSE).

Now talking not about replacement, but about actual "upgrade" I was really looking forward RC... oh boy I am furious what mess they made with such a beautiful looking car. Whereas mk3 IS looks is a bit of mishmash RC really took the pop style design language and made best of it... for whatever it is or isn't, one thing is for sure - it is gorgeous looking car. Now one thing is not so great is the same s*** engines as in IS... I have not tried RC200t because I have already tried IS200t and as far as engine goes I had no questions left, being a bit "retarded" I tried RC300h.. retarded because I have as well previously tried IS300h and don't know why on earth I though RC300h going to be any better. So again I was left unimpressed with the car (you can find more in my review in RC section). Lexus really took bad decision basing RC's engines options on IS, they should have been based on GS (which would make sense price wise as well.. RC being more expensive than GS)... driving RC450h would sound "proper".. driving RC300h is just like driving CT200h on steroids.. though from inside you would never see effect of those steroids as CT/IS/RC is not that much different from inside except RC has better seats and driving positions overall (which are rather brilliant) and has improved steering, so one picky guy can really feel improvement.

Talking about GS engine options, it would be relevant to considered the rest of the car... It is upgrade in any way for IS, great engine options (by great I probably referring to 450h).. thought looks is still something I am not sure about... ~ lady gada in nuns dress. Anyway the only upgrade I can see in Lexus line-up for mk2 IS is GS.. so maybe it will be the best value luxury car you can get for 2018 onward..

I personally will be looking for GS450h in 2 years time. If the prices on RC's going to drop like a rock (like they did on IS mk3), in 2 year time I might pick-up reasonable RC300h for price of doughnut and I would give no **** about rather terrible engine combo. If my current IS brakes down completely for any reason or I crash it (more likely somebody crash into me... which seems to happen rather frequently), then I will go for IS250 mk3 interim.. recently seen one low miles example for £9k as it really is dark horse of mk3 and not many people looking forward to own it.

dutchie01 · February 5, 2017

Hi C,

i drove an IS250 3rd gen for 4 years and 100.000 km and i still think it is the best car i ever had. The smooth as silk 6 cyl engine, the gearbox that feels like there is always a "cloud" between the pedal and the engine ( driving off is chauffeur limousine style slowly increasing speed no hicks no irregularities). The doors that close like a bankvault, i can go on and on. The car gave me an impression of overengineering like no other. I opened the glove box every day 2 times for 4 years. After 2500 times open and close there was not 1 mm backlash. God i loved that car but as usual you only discover it when itś gone...

the next one was a brandnew BMW 320i estate full options. Coming from the IS this turned out to be a very disappointing experience. Mediocre buildquality, rattles creaks etc. Overall impression was of an agricultural machine rough and rattly. Plus you see them on every streetcorner. It left after only 2 years and i went back to Lexus with an IS 300h Fsport. Beautiful to look at but the driving experience is not thesame as the 250. CVT and 4 cyl we all know it;s just not thesame. I have it now for a year and i do like it, fuel is better that the 250 ( 320 had same consumption!!) but i feel it is not on thesame high level as the 250. The NVH is definately not as good, the overengineered feeling is not there, sometimes i feel the IS300 is more toyota than lexus whilst the 250 was definately more Lexus than Toyota...

I think whatever you choose it will be a step down the ladder. Try to find build quality in a Nissan, good luck with that. And the CT200? that is just a terrible packaged Prius, better to go for the original go for the Prius.

I agree with Linas about the GS. it feels better put together than the IS and materials used are of higher quality. The 450 is a rocketship, could be my next ride, time will tell!

Linas.P · February 5, 2017

@dutchie01 - great to hear first person experience with the car over the longer period of the time.

I completely agree with you that CT/IS feels more cheapish Toyota, than solid Lexus build. They all are kind of nice but something is lacking.. RC on the other hand has slightly better build, maybe the seats makes that feeling, maybe more comfortable driving position, maybe more rigid frame..

Equally, I am not against hybrid package when it makes sense e.g. in 450h package, but 300h just doesn't, it just doesn't feel right. I do like the completely quiet start as well, but it doesn't last long.. on the first corner you will ignite 4 cylinder "buzziness" which sound kind of awful, like kicking hornets nest and even transition from electric only and hybrid is not smooth. I would compare IS250 and IS300h sound to having girlfriend with beautiful voice and the girlfriend who is dead silent 70% of the time and another 30% of the time farts. So not only 300h doesn't make right sounds, but when it does they are unpleasant.

steveledzep · February 5, 2017

My vehicle was with Lexus for a couple of days last week for repair. I did 160 miles in the CT they lent me. It is definitely NOT an upgrade to the IS ! Pleased to hand it back.

WetMyBeak · February 5, 2017

1 hour ago, steveledzep said:

My vehicle was with Lexus for a couple of days last week for repair. I did 160 miles in the CT they lent me. It is definitely NOT an upgrade to the IS ! Pleased to hand it back.

It was more upgrade in purchasing terms really. I've got a feeling it'll take a lot of searching to find a modern car with the level of refinement the 250 offers for similar money on the used car market. Great shouts from Linas and Dutchie on the 3rd gen, they look great, definitely something to aim for if I could get one for around 10k

peachy · February 5, 2017

Doubt very much I'll ever buy another lexus. My previous is220d was a nightmare. Head gasket went. Egr and dpf problems. Seized calipers. 5th injector problem. Turbo wastegate stuck. Total ballache.

My current is250 is a dream to drive and extremely comfortable but only let down by the poor performance. OK I know it's not a sports car but for a 2.5l v6 petrol it's definitely underpowered. It's needs at least another 30 horses to keep up with the bmw325i and others in its class.

I've made my mind up that my next car will be a bmw328i

Linas.P · February 5, 2017

It is rather fat, not underpowered.. but that is trade of for comfort, sound proofing all electrical gizmos etc. - I doubt very much that 30hp would do anything to car which weights nearly 1700kg. IS250 is really about smooth power delivery rather than power itself - as you said no a sport car and never intended to be.

Obviously, my taste might be different but I had BMW328xi in between my Lexus'es and as you can see I am back here... BMW was really drivers car, I doubt it was a lot faster than IS250, but it was a lot harder to the level it was not comfortable + hard interior materials made overall package not that pleasant.

Rebecca · February 6, 2017

Absolutely no intention of changing my lexus IS250 for a long time to come. I love everything about the car from the outside in. The most comfortable and luxurious car I've ever owned and the levinson sound system is superb.

The IS250 to me certainly does not feel underpowered at all but then again I've never drove a performance car. It has heaps of power compared to my previous cars. Is220d, mercedes e220d and bmw 320d.

My next car will almost certainly be another lexus is. Not sure the hybrid is for me so will probably go for the is200t.

tayaste · February 6, 2017

Going to sell the white IS300h f-sport in the next month or two so considering going for an RC for a change .... but might just go for the facelift IS.

J Henderson · February 7, 2017

Not planning to change my car for at least 3 years, but when I do it'll almost certainly be another Lexus that takes it's place.

The logical decision would be a 3rd-gen IS (my choice would probably be a 200t F-Sport) but I completely agree with what was said earlier regarding how "inferior" the newer model feels by comparison. Granted, my only experience of one has been with a loaner 300h base-model when my car was in for a service, but I couldn't help but notice how noisy, unrefined and cheap it felt compared to my own car.

With that in mind, I think I'm more likely to go after a 450h next (either GS Mk4 or RX Mk3) or maybe even an RC-F if they depreciate heavily enough...

Vintagesixtysix · February 7, 2017

These are some of the itches I may scratch in the future...post IS.

Honda Legend

Volkswagen Phaeton (W12)

IS-F

RC (I get the engine discussion but just love the look of that car)

Subaru Legacy 3.0R spec B

Maserati quattroporte ZF gearbox

BMW 640i / 650i

Nissan 370Z GT

Sent from my Iphone using Lexus OC

Bluesman · February 7, 2017

Volkswagen Phaeton (W12) That is one car I would love to spend a day with to see if it comes up to my LS standard.

Linas.P · February 8, 2017

On 2/7/2017 at 5:20 PM, Bluesman said:

Volkswagen Phaeton (W12) That is one car I would love to spend a day with to see if it comes up to my LS standard.

You can ask yourself if Bentley Continental saloon comes up to your standard... because Phaeton is effectively rebadged Continental.

djkenn · February 8, 2017

Having asked a number of people in the trade, my next car will be a GS250. With my driving and mileage, hybrid just does not make sense as a used proposition. There are not many used GS250s around (as they did not make sense as company cars) but if I get the same quality as my old IS250, with a more modern interior, I will be well pleased.

Linas.P · February 9, 2017

Doesn't make sense... in which way? It seems that financially it will make sense, because tax will be much cheaper, it would possibly still going to be more fuel efficient. Not sure what is the point regarding mileage ... is your mileage very high? That is because hybrids makes sense only as city driver for short distances and in traffic, but doesn't match diesels as company cars. The reason companies buying hybrids are not because they more fuel efficient, but they are more tax efficient i.e. companies can offset taxes on the car. The reason I am saying is that GS250 will be rare (as you mentioned) so you will be pressed to find one which matches everything you want and will possibly cost as much as GS450h. ... and obviously just for me it seems little bit underpowered. IS250 is probably on the edge of still being reasonably powered, but GS is 250kg heavier. So same engine on much heavier car will feel worse and equally the MPG will be way higher.

steveledzep · February 9, 2017

I have researched the GS250 with a view to it being my next car. Like Duncan, the strengths of the hybrid system with regard to mpg don't add up in my driving circumstances. A similar aged GS300h or GS450h will be c£5k more expensive.....that buys a lot of fuel !

My current IS250 convertible is 90kgs heavier than a GS250 and its performance is more than sufficient for my needs.

dazed · February 9, 2017

<Rant>

The word 'upgrade' has definitely become one of the most misused words in recent years. Thanks to spivvy salesmen (particularly those selling mobile phones) it has become a word to describe any new sale to an existing customer and is used only to flatter the customer to secure a commission payment. Ooooh, suits you sir!

The reality is many sales are anything but an 'upgrade' - most are just a sideways replacement at best.

<Rant/>

Anyway back on topic, I'll be interested to hear what other owners have to say. As a two time IS250 mk2 owner with over 200K miles on the clock(s) I accept that my next car will almost certainly have to be something different. Reliability is essential which rules out many cars and non of those left have so far inspired me like the IS250 has. The GS is one exception, but it's size is excessive for my needs. The RC 200t is beautiful but I have reservations about the engine (although I haven't ruled it out).

Hybrids don't interest me as I spend most of my time cruising at 70mph and don't see the point in paying a premium for little or no gain in economy (and the loss of a spare wheel).

Linas.P · February 9, 2017

@dazed - you exactly right, my IS250 does same MPG on motorway as does RC300h, however RC/IS200t is very trashy engine/car combination. Every time under acceleration it doesn't sound right... a lot of noise and little acceleration.I found it very similar setup as my previous Passat CC 2.0t (which I have repeatedly refereed as the worst car I have ever owned). Heavy car + little turbo engine is perfect recipe for ricer, but awful choice for comfortable cruiser.

djkenn · February 9, 2017

14 hours ago, steveledzep said:

I have researched the GS250 with a view to it being my next car. Like Duncan, the strengths of the hybrid system with regard to mpg don't add up in my driving circumstances. A similar aged GS300h or GS450h will be c£5k more expensive.....that buys a lot of fuel !

My current IS250 convertible is 90kgs heavier than a GS250 and its performance is more than sufficient for my needs.

I'd really like someone to explain to me how a hybrid is a sensible used car proposition. Even Lexus service is very unclear how Battery performance is monitored, how much do new batteries cost, how are old batteries disposed of, what happens when the car and batteries are serviced by an independent. Will we end up with old hybrid cars being run on the cheap, carrying around dead weight batteries. And if you don't do low speed commuting (we must be in a minority) what's the point.

A GS250 is the simplest non hybrid,petrol engined Lexus available.

Linas.P · February 10, 2017

Hybrid batteries doesn't really die that much. This is not electric car where batteries really needs regular maintenance. It is true that batteries loses some power over time, but for hybrid where batteries barely works along the petrol engine to improve efficient is not that important, they would still work in traffic, you would lose EV-only mileage, but being realistic even new hybrid Lexus does like 2-4miles pure EV, so that would not be noticeable.

There obviously is some risk associated and if batteries go wrong it might cost a lot to replace, but look how many RX400h and old GS450h are now more than 10 years old and relatively how few are the topics of batteries going wrong and those are the cars build in very beginning of hybrid craze. I guess it would be safe to assume that you should not run into issue with batteries for at very least 100k miles or 10 years.... after that I would not buy hybrid myself. + for the money you can save on VED you can buy extended Lexus warranty... I believe Extended warranty is really becomes sensible when owning used hybrid.

In terms of being lucky and not doing any communing you are right, hybrid will make a lot less sense for you, because the strongest point is obviously traffic jams..