GS-F and RC-F failures? Impact on IS-F

[Flytvr]

Some people would argue that the RC-F and (especially) the GS-F are not selling very well.

So, if these more modern F cars are not doing too well, how will this impact IS-F prices?

Your thoughts.....

 

[JonP]

Wasn't the same true for the IS-F? I remember the final new cars being sold off at a large discount.... I suspect that due to their rarity eventually the GS-F and RC-F will also be appreciated.

[ISJason]

Hi. Surely Lexus appreciates those cars won't well as well, as they are niche models, not high selling volumes like the CT or RX. I think it's all factored in when the prices are set.

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[wendle]

I don’t think Lexus ever expected to do well with there “F” cars in the UK, it will be the same for the LC 500 and the ( LC-F, which will come. ) They are more for the US market, they don’t even bother advertising the “F” cars, I have never seen a advert, TV commercial or poster for a “F” car,

Most people don’t even know they exists, today I pulled up at a set of lights on a dual carriageway, a Audi pulled up next to me, I didn’t even floor it, I was only in normal mode, 2 miles down the road at the next set of lights he pulled up next to me, opened his window and said “ what the hell is that “.

Over the past 3 years I have noticed a lot more Lexus cars on the road and apparently there are at least 3 new models coming out including brining the ES from the US to the UK.

[Fatts]

Wendel, can you post the link where you read that the ES will be coming to the UK.

[wendle]

i have a couple of friends who work at Lexus, this is what i have been told the ES, and a new model thats smaller than the NX

there is also a press release for the LC at the Ascari race track in Malaga for the first week in Feb

[Big Rat]

I still believe the co 2 levels for both is a factor, none as we know come under the magic 225cgm, that combined with the big hit on residuals for someone to buy it privately just doesn't help buyer confidence. Business users have their problems.

ive been fortunate enough to buy these types of cars in the past new, I won't do it any more partly for these reasons it just not sound economics, as someone mentioned recently the IS-F is a lot of car for 20-30k, is the G & R worth the extra spend.

It obviously depends on you own personal financial circumstances 

I would have either the G or R in a heart beat when they come down to the price levels of the F, I've not driven either but have read a great deal I'm personally impressed.

Big Rat

 

[Fatts]

Thanks Wendel for the feedback I have always thought that the ES could steal some of the market from the likes of Volvo V series, VW Passat, Ford Mondeo and such likes. The only Achilles heel may be the lack of diesel but the converted will surely by the hybrids.

[rayaans]

The RC-F and GS-F sales are also limited by Lexus themselves. They want to keep it exclusive and hence, only 200 odd GS-F's coming to the UK each year. 

On a side note, the ES is not coming to the UK. No market for that car here. It was extensively discussed but so far, no plans to bring it here as it would cannibalize sales of the IS or GS.

The UX is certainly coming though and replacing the CT. 

[Big Rat]

3 minutes ago, rayaans said:

The RC-F and GS-F sales are also limited by Lexus themselves. They want to keep it exclusive and hence, only 200 odd GS-F's coming to the UK each year. 

On a side note, the ES is not coming to the UK. No market for that car here. It was extensively discussed but so far, no plans to bring it here as it would cannibalize sales of the IS or GS.

The UX is certainly coming though and replacing the CT. 

I have read on Aus IS-F site that they did precisely this there as well, I believe about 100 more were sold there than hear, it was a topic of discussion only recently.

I watch with interest to see what the ct replacement is like as Mrs Rat's train station snotter is due for a change in a year or so,she doesn't like the ct.

Bug Rat

 

[Rusty Crobar]

I love the idea of the ct but it's ruined by the ride quality, the gearbox and the lack of power. Nothing the 2.0 turbo, DCT and new suspension couldn't fix 🖒

[rayaans]

1 hour ago, Big Rat said:

I have read on Aus IS-F site that they did precisely this there as well, I believe about 100 more were sold there than hear, it was a topic of discussion only recently.

I watch with interest to see what the ct replacement is like as Mrs Rat's train station snotter is due for a change in a year or so,she doesn't like the ct.

Bug Rat

 

 

21 minutes ago, Rusty Crobar said:

I love the idea of the ct but it's ruined by the ride quality, the gearbox and the lack of power. Nothing the 2.0 turbo, DCT and new suspension couldn't fix 🖒

I have seen pictures of the prototype UX and IMO its a bit of a stunner really. Its definitely polarising but nowhere near as rash looking as the concept vehicle and I quite liked it. Seems to be slightly bigger than the CT but its on a raised platform, similiar to the Merc GLA

In Australia, Lexus have trademarked the UX200, UX250 and UX250h. The UX200 and UX250 will be 4 pot engines, unlikely to be turbocharged and Im not really sure whether we would get them here in the UK.

The UX250h is something new as the moniker hasn't been used yet so that suggests an all new hybrid powertrain. I believe it may have lithium ion batteries and is part of the new hybrid range that Toyota is bringing out. Expect about 150-180hp from it. 

[ISJason]

I did try CT as a loan car when my RX was serviced and I did like it , it was a good comfortable ride . I'm not a fast driver, so I wasn't particularly concerned about speed but I thought it was a good car and if I was in the market for a small Lexus I would certainly get one.

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[ronaldo]

19 hours ago, Big Rat said:

I still believe the co 2 levels for both is a factor, none as we know come under the magic 225cgm, that combined with the big hit on residuals for someone to buy it privately just doesn't help buyer confidence. Business users have their problem

I wonder what the residuals will be like bearing in mind the new motor tax system.

The five year cost of tax for an RC-F registered after April 2017 will be £1,700 + (£450 * 4) = £3,500. It'll cost £140 p/a after that.

The five year cost of tax for one registered today will be £885 + (£500 * 4) = £2,885. It'll cost £500 p/a after that.

Looking at the above figures, I highly doubt anyone is waiting until April to buy a car with an RRP approaching £60k. The running costs and depreciation dwarfs the tax-related considerations.

However, for the used buyer 6-7 years down the line, surely they'll be looking for a discount, based on today's tax rates, of £3k - £4k over and above the normal annual depreciation solely to cover the higher value of the same car handled under the new tax system.

[Toothy]

Prices are going up in April. I believe this is to account for the new tax changes.

RC-F's are all built to order now. No pre-built stock lying around like they had after the launch. So they must be selling in low volumes.

[MNMJ]

According to howmanyleft.co.uk, there are 175 RCFs after less than 2 years on sale. It took the ISF 4 years to get to 174. I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from that.

I'd be happy if the numbers stay low as it might help residuals.

 

 

[emjay82]

Not good media for the RCF, but good news for those thinking of upgrading the ISF in the future 

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/hilarious-depreciation-makes-this-471bhp-lexus-rc-f-look-like-a-bargain/

[Stuno1]

This is why I would never buy any Lexus new. They are incredible cars but are taking a long time to establish themselves as a legitimate merc and BMW competitor. The new rx and nx seem popular so I think they are doing the correct things. 

[JonP]

I did chat to my local dealer about swapping the F for an RC-F at my last service but they wanted too much to change. Have to wait for the RC-F values to soften rather more, I think.

[Stuno1]

16 minutes ago, JonP said:

I did chat to my local dealer about swapping the F for an RC-F at my last service but they wanted too much to change. Have to wait for the RC-F values to soften rather more, I think.

I think that's a great move from the isf. Then maybe the LS F 😃

[JonP]

Given the miles I do, Lexus reliability is a big factor for me, GS-F is too expensive at the moment, an LC REALLY appeals down the line, but that will take some serious depreciation to be considered. For some reason the wife seems to think that houses, furniture and the kids should get some priority for some reason, can't understand it myself but hey, I suppose women are supposed to be inscrutable to us mere mortals.

[Stuno1]

31 minutes ago, JonP said:

Given the miles I do, Lexus reliability is a big factor for me, GS-F is too expensive at the moment, an LC REALLY appeals down the line, but that will take some serious depreciation to be considered. For some reason the wife seems to think that houses, furniture and the kids should get some priority for some reason, can't understand it myself but hey, I suppose women are supposed to be inscrutable to us mere mortals.

I always combat car expenditure with holiday. Worlds well as inbennefit from both! My wife just loves holidays. 

[Mark G]

I think out of the 2 I am starting to like the looks of the GS-F more than the RC-F, might start to look at one seriously in 12 months time when the prices are more attractive.

[Flytvr]

2 minutes ago, Mark G said:

I think out of the 2 I am starting to like the looks of the GS-F more than the RC-F, might start to look at one seriously in 12 months time when the prices are more attractive.

See where you are coming from.

Having driven lots of new Lexus cars recently, it has always been nice to get back into the F - not just for the performance, but also because of the clarity and simplicity of the layout. Yes, it might be old fashioned but it lets you get on with just driving. Modern Lexus cars (and others) have so much going on. 

[Toothy]

They quote a depreciation of nearly 24K. But all depends on what you paid for the car new. My parents have got an RC-F on order at the moment, they did not pay 60K...
Keeping these cars for a year or 2 isn't financially the best thing to do either. They will take a steep drop in year 1 and 2 but will steady up after then. Don't expect to see these below 30K for the next couple years at least.