Cheap LS460, the fun starts...

[Haylands]

Well after fitting the tyres the car drove very well and we went away at the weekend and did several hundred miles and unfortunately I don't like it...!!!

My old 430 was a superb car, easy and relaxing to drive, it just wafted along and if you wanted to get a hurry on it would oblige but most of the time it just settled into it's stride....

The 460 is a totally different animal, it's like driving a puppy on a lead, it just wants to go all the time, little subtlety to it, it's too keen and doesn't seem to settle, the smallest accelerator input and it want's to change down a few cogs and take off like a scalded cat.. I drove like Miss Daisy hoping the adaptations would work it out and tone it down and it did get a bit better but it is certainly not a relaxing drive. It was my good lady who mentioned after a couple of hundred miles... "You don't seem to like this car" even she noticed my frustration with it.....

So, I've spent a couple of days evaluating options and although it's a great car and has all the extras I wanted I'm cutting my loses and selling it.... such a shame....

So to those who asked what it was like compared to a 430, that's my answer, I'm sure lots will love it but not me... 

 

[Dale_V]

I do agree that the throttle input is a bit keen, so I fitted an Apexi throttle controller to mine... Its 7 stage adjustable at the push of a button so you can have it either feather the throttle smoothly, or be extra keen so it just launches....

[Haylands]

Thanks, i did look at those and also went to see a mate who does remapping... Although it's a large part of the issue it's just the whole driving experience I'm not liking, I'm rather fussy about it, I hate driving BMW's but millions love them so it's probably me.....

[cruisermark]

8 hours ago, Haylands said:

Well after fitting the tyres the car drove very well and we went away at the weekend and did several hundred miles and unfortunately I don't like it...!!!

My old 430 was a superb car, easy and relaxing to drive, it just wafted along and if you wanted to get a hurry on it would oblige but most of the time it just settled into it's stride....

The 460 is a totally different animal, it's like driving a puppy on a lead, it just wants to go all the time, little subtlety to it, it's too keen and doesn't seem to settle, the smallest accelerator input and it want's to change down a few cogs and take off like a scalded cat.. I drove like Miss Daisy hoping the adaptations would work it out and tone it down and it did get a bit better but it is certainly not a relaxing drive. It was my good lady who mentioned after a couple of hundred miles... "You don't seem to like this car" even she noticed my frustration with it.....

So, I've spent a couple of days evaluating options and although it's a great car and has all the extras I wanted I'm cutting my loses and selling it.... such a shame....

So to those who asked what it was like compared to a 430, that's my answer, I'm sure lots will love it but not me... 

 

Hi Pete

If you are not happy about it then nothing can change that - We have a 25k BMW in the family with every extra but I dont like it - I prefer my LS.

And going by the time you posted on here you were loosing sleep over it lol!! so it can only be a good decision.

Atleast you can say been there, done it and got the T shirt . . .  . . .  and my favourite mdel is . . . .  . . . . . . ..

[Dale_V]

Yes I guess everyone is different and its an expensive car to own and keep if you dont gel with it.

 

by the way, can the LS460 be remapped? I'ts not something ive ever looked into

[RgrWynne]

Like it !!!

Cheers, Roger

[RgrWynne]

I bought my LS 430 from somebody who had owned it for 7 years who then bought an LS460. 

This had be owned by a well known company and had been chauffeur driven, with 100,000 miles on the clock. He bought through a dealer with a new mot. He immediately had it re mot'd to find extensive front suspension wear, all put right by the dealer at a cost of £7k.

He also said to me that he would buy back my LS 430 anytime I wanted to sell .

I am in contact with him and he echoed your sentiments, but he is not having mine back , as I prepare for a long Spanish trip later this spring.

I do think that the 460 is a fine car , but not suitable for everybody.

Thank you for keeping us all so entertained and wish you well in your search for whatever ,

Roger

[NiceNige]

8 hours ago, Haylands said:

Well after fitting the tyres the car drove very well and we went away at the weekend and did several hundred miles and unfortunately I don't like it...!!!

My old 430 was a superb car, easy and relaxing to drive, it just wafted along and if you wanted to get a hurry on it would oblige but most of the time it just settled into it's stride....

The 460 is a totally different animal, it's like driving a puppy on a lead, it just wants to go all the time, little subtlety to it, it's too keen and doesn't seem to settle, the smallest accelerator input and it want's to change down a few cogs and take off like a scalded cat.. I drove like Miss Daisy hoping the adaptations would work it out and tone it down and it did get a bit better but it is certainly not a relaxing drive. It was my good lady who mentioned after a couple of hundred miles... "You don't seem to like this car" even she noticed my frustration with it.....

So, I've spent a couple of days evaluating options and although it's a great car and has all the extras I wanted I'm cutting my loses and selling it.... such a shame....

So to those who asked what it was like compared to a 430, that's my answer, I'm sure lots will love it but not me... 

 

Hi Pete,

i have been reading your updates on the LS460 avidly over the last few weeks, fascinating and impressive.

I've had two Ls430's now, each for four years, and I'm keeping my current one as long as I can. I agree, the LS460 is a lovely car at many levels, and I was going to upgrade a number of times, but it just wasn't as cosseting and soulful. I prefer the LS430 so I totally agree with you.

Each time I drive my LS430 I marvel at its refinement and ease of use. My friends just don't get it, only the owners here get it. I drive a Maserati Quattroporte Sport GTS too which is fabulous, but if I go on a longish journey, guess what car keys are in my hand 😀. I have connected a Vaistech which lets me play my apple music or Spotify through the wonderful music system. It's heaven at any speed.

I couldn't bear to sell my LS because if I did, every time I see one I would want it back again. 

I'm sure you have a difficult decision ahead of you.

Nige

 

[ambermarine]

Peter

I admire your honesty and hope you get a reasonable return on the project it as cleared a few myths and truths up thats for sure.

I think that anyone who as experienced long term use of either the 400 or 430 tend to get converted to that ambience for life and it is a bit difficult to get over them, a bit like a trusted favourite armchair.

 

[RgrWynne]

That is a brilliant analogy ....oh so true !!

i honestly don't think there are many cars out there that have such an effect.

cheers,Roger

[Spacewagon52]

9 hours ago, Haylands said:

 

So to those who asked what it was like compared to a 430, that's my answer, I'm sure lots will love it but not me... 

 

That is very interesting but also it must be disappointing for you, especially as you have put so much work, energy and enthusiasm into bringing it up to par. It is a cautionary tale for all of us. I find my Mk IV LS400 throttle response much more sensitive than the Mk III I had. An extended test drive does not always do a car justice. I have found that many cars seem to be better than you expected after running them for a while. I have been put off the 460 by negative comments on thge forum. Really not sure what I would choose to replace my 400 - another Lexus but not sure which model. The LS430 sounds like the best option when the time comes.

Will you go back to a 430 then?

[Malc]

...  I've got an old leather armchair too that i bought 2ndhand from a hotel clear out about 10 years ago, even more knackered now but i won't be changing or repairing it anytime soon ........... the Mk3 however  .....  maybe i should just stock up on a " spare " for panels etc when mine get bent and insurers ( and me too ) would otherwise write it off !

The Ls600 def isn't for me, nor the 460 now i guess, but maybe a cossetted 430 with changed radiator and non air suspension might do me at the time 

decisions decisions .........  do we have to make them ??

Malc

[Haylands]

2 hours ago, Dale_V said:

by the way, can the LS460 be remapped? I'ts not something ive ever looked into

Yes it can but not to the same extent as a turbo engine, the direct injection helps and they could up the torque and improve MPG, also they smooth out the power flow, you would notice a small difference and maybe 1 or 2 mpg. If anyone decides to then make sure they are a reputable company or you could end up with a rather large paper weight...

38 minutes ago, Spacewagon52 said:

Will you go back to a 430 then?

Never go back is my motto, cars or women...!!!

Thanks to all of you for the comments, I know when I'm not happy with something so I'll cut my losses now....

[Spacewagon52]

Do let us know Peter, what you get to replace it. It has been a very interesting and informative thread - many thanks.

[cruisermark]

7 minutes ago, Spacewagon52 said:

Do let us know Peter, what you get to replace it. It has been a very interesting and informative thread - many thanks.

Definatley informative - I mean i was quite comfortable in my mind buying an LS460 with 100k miles but now I would think twice.

[Carl911]

It's interesting your comments on the LS460 being too eager and thus making it less relaxed. 

I can understand where you are coming from and this is where performance has it's place for certain models.

take my GS450, it's something inbeteeen and I think it's performance adds a certain excitement to the drive. The car is fairly

firm anyway and seems to lend itself to the extra eager throttle response. 

My RX450h on the other hand I feel is the complete opposite. It really makes me drive much more sedate and you feel cosited about. Despite being the same slightly detuned engine it feels quite lazy in comparison to the GS.

if I'm honest I feel it could do with just a little more performance to make it a perfect balance, sometimes I feel the weight which indicates to me  the necessity for a little more from the engine.

i liken the LS in drive to the RX in that it should also be driven in a sedate manner but when needed and only when needed have the power delivery on tap.

it should not be a case of the lightest touch of the pedal interfewrs with an otherwise tranquil ride.

sounds like lexus are forgetting the heritage for relaxed, comfortable drive and compromising it for handling and performance BMW style rides.

carl

 

[jonthetourist]

Well this tale had an unexpected plot twist!

Peter is there not a "comfort" setting on your transmission? I believe some 460s do. I assume not or you would have mentioned it, but might it be possible to get a dealer to access the engine management to make it less responsive i.e. apply the equivalent of a comfort setting. 

I refer to my 430 as my "fat old man's car" which is a long way from your puppy on a lead scenario. (which is very descriptive, btw). And I never had your ambition to test the acceleration and top speed.

Was this a test drive before ordering the air suspension replacements or had you already committed?

 

So disappointing. I share (some of) your pain.

Jon

[Haylands]

Jon, it's got power mode which just makes it hold gears and snow mode which makes it pull away in second or something... neither make much difference...

Anyway I've bought the replacement, if I bought a saloon it had to be easy to get in and out of, low sill, high door opening, the only other big saloon that fits the bill is the Audi A8 but I don't like them so..... one of the other cars from the past I had fond memories off because of it's laid back chilled out approach to life was a Mk1 Jeep Grand Cherokee.. so, sorry to say I've bought a Yank Tank... and one with a dirty diesesal engine....

It was cheap and local, needed a wheel refurb and new tyres, had those diamond turned wheels and a few years have taken their toll...

A quick phone call to Mr Kahn's emporium in Bradford and I got a set of take offs from a later Wrangler, brand new set of wheels with Goodyear Wrangler Tyres dated late 2016 for £250 for four... (BTW Khan has loads of wheels and tyres from all the cars he customises when new, a good source and cheap, don't know how many Lexus he does though, ring and ask for Dave)

Stopped at my mates who does the remapping on the way home and he was quiet so it's been chipped to 265bhp and 600nm, it's a 3.0ltr CRD Mercedes engine, goes very well now, real lazy but pulls well...

Anyway I love it, easy to get in and out and drives like a big old boat, with not a puppy in sight.... just what I was after....

Not quite the same spec as the Lexus but buttons aren't everything...

I'll advertise the Lexus when the weather gets warmer and I can give it a good clean, it's bogging after a weekend away.... 

 

[messi]

On 29/01/2017 at 6:32 PM, Haylands said:

16 hours ago, Haylands said:

Well after fitting the tyres the car drove very well and we went away at the weekend and did several hundred miles and unfortunately I don't like it...!!!

My old 430 was a superb car, easy and relaxing to drive, it just wafted along and if you wanted to get a hurry on it would oblige but most of the time it just settled into it's stride....

The 460 is a totally different animal, it's like driving a puppy on a lead, it just wants to go all the time, little subtlety to it, it's too keen and doesn't seem to settle, the smallest accelerator input and it want's to change down a few cogs and take off like a scalded cat.. I drove like Miss Daisy hoping the adaptations would work it out and tone it down and it did get a bit better but it is certainly not a relaxing drive. It was my good lady who mentioned after a couple of hundred miles... "You don't seem to like this car" even she noticed my frustration with it.....

So, I've spent a couple of days evaluating options and although it's a great car and has all the extras I wanted I'm cutting my loses and selling it.... such a shame....

So to those who asked what it was like compared to a 430, that's my answer, I'm sure lots will love it but not me... 

 

So how much would you be selling the Ls460 for?

[Farqui]

Cripes you don't hang about!

A pal had one of those big yank 4x4's and the Merc engine was a peach. Hope you enjoy it.

[Haylands]

Qumar, PM sent..

Lee, there was one local, was the right spec with no sunroof, age and milage OK and the guy was flexible on price... all very easy really....

[Spacewagon52]

I had a MkI Grand for off-roading. Very impressed with it considering the hammering it took. You did not consider an RX then? Surprising. Hope it goes well and suits you.

[Chris Skelton]

I liked my Cherokee as well. Had a '90 one from 94 to 01. Trolled across Spain -with hiccup at 50K. As 50K rolled across the speedo, I said 'This is the time things go wrong with cars" Sure enough, the Alternator packed up an hour later!

Had an MOT days before I left.9/10th way through trip, found a wheel bearing was completely shot! Some MOT station!

But it was like driving an armchair.

Know the feeling about 'not taking' to a car-I'm not happy with my 42K mile XM 3 litre-though it's probably the best one in UK!

[ScousePaul]

Quote

So to those who asked what it was like compared to a 430, that's my answer, I'm sure lots will love it but not me... 

Well this has been a rollercoaster of a thread .  

I know exactly what you mean about binding to a car or not. If you don't feel comfortable with it then it's difficult to get beyond that. I loved my old LS400 and love my current LS430 and do think an LS460 will be on my horizon one day,  but do have a nagging doubt that I'll miss something intangible in these old boxes... Will find out in about 10 years once the current one has worn itself out .

[jonthetourist]

So, forum folks, I need help with a dilemma.

My plan, as discussed in this thread, was to let Peter fettle his 460 to the nth degree, then buy it off him once he moved on to his next project. Meanwhile enjoying my 430, which is lovely, and is coming up to 2 years in my ownership. Imaginary timescale - 3 or 4 years from now. But Peter is now selling his partially fettled 460, so should I buy it?

Pros

It's had the Haylands treatment. If you are this far through the thread then you know what I mean :)
Many things are sorted
It has no sunroof (very rare)
Could be a good upgrade to a newer model 2007 instead of 2004

Cons

It needs new struts - expensive
It has (a few thou) more miles than mine
Peter says it doesn't waft like a 430, so I might not like the driving experience either.
It's a bit soon - I am just in the last stages of fettling my 430.

One factor is that I have no idea what mine is worth. Anyone care to speculate?
2004 facelift 430. 108k miles with service history. All fluids replaced last year, along with timing belt (large receipt available) Bumpers resprayed, wheels refurbished, Goodyear F2s all round plus alignment. 3 keys. The only outstanding job is the front parking sensors. (I drive for a living and find sensors a pain personally. I would love ones that just bleep when you get within 3 inches of something, but that may just be me). Wheel goes in/out and up/down quite happily.

 

All thoughts gratefully apreciated.

 

Jon