Cheap LS460, the fun starts...

[Haylands]

Lexus have confirmed that three out of four of the shocks are "past their best" they have just done an RX with 80,000 on it that had all four and they did another 460 a while ago with around 100,000 miles so I guess mine at 9 years old and 116,000 is about right... 

Little point having just the three done so a quote from Lexus for supply only of 4 new shocks retail is, 

Front struts £584.17 each

Rear struts £620.56 each

VAT  £481.89

Total £2891.35

I would get a bit of discount so the price would be around £2,500.00

That's for 4 struts that lasted 9 years and 100,000 miles....

OR

I can source a set of 4 air struts from Guangzhou Jovoll Auto Parts Technology Co, via Alibaba for £766 delivered in 4-6 days

Jovoll specialise in air suspension parts and make over 10,000 aftermarket parts a year, they are ISO 9001 registered which means little in reality but at least they are trying, they employ over 100 people and have been around for over 10 years.

I can buy the struts via Paypal so have total buyer protection should they not arrive or are not as described.

So... decisions decisions... Go with a known quality (which, let's face it is not brilliant, my Range Rover air struts lasted longer...!!!)

Or for a 1/4 of the price try the aftermarket ones and hope they are up to the job and last at least three years which then makes them cheaper than originals...

Also remember if I buy the Lexus ones it's pretty close to half the price I paid for the whole car...!!!

Or I suppose the middle option of front struts from Arnott (Known good quality) and rears from Jovoll (Arnott don't make rears yet) which would work out around £1,500

I think I know what I'm going to do but please feel free to comment and call me names for being a t**t or similar...!!!!!

[cruisermark]

Hi pete

What is exactly is failure of the struts - are they leaking oil like the GS ones? - If I understand it correctly air struts have air pumped into them to hold the car - if they are doing that then whats the problem?

[Haylands]

Airbags are fine and hold air no problem, it is the shock absorber that runs down the center of the airbag that has failed, there is no external leak visible so I imagine the internal workings have failed and the oil has been pushed passed the piston.

You can't repair or replace just the shock unfortunately...

[madasahatter]

Could also try these.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lexus-LS-400-430-460-Racing-Air-Suspension-Front-Rear-Kit-Ride-Lift-/361463137214?hash=item5428e1c3be:g:RrIAAOSwqrtWoM-h

[Haylands]

Yeah, D2 are a well know make but they will make the ride hard, they are more designed to run the car very low for the VIP look they try to get, subsequently the bags are very hard rubber so they will run low okish...

Also the shock adjustment is on the top of the struts but it is a manual adjustment and not compatible with the shock adjusting motors on the standard struts, and I don't fancy taking the back seat out every time I want to adjust them...!!!

There is also the coil over route to remove the air suspension but I don't want to do that either, I like the way air suspension rides...

[ScousePaul]

Quote

I think I know what I'm going to do but please feel free to comment and call me names for being a t**t or similar...!!!!!

 

 Like this

Personally I'd take a deep breath and go with the Lexus option, but that's just because I don't have your mechanical skills and would hope they'd do a good warrantied job of it. It's the age-old problem with running a luxury car though. We can pick them up cheap s/h but shouldn't expect future parts and labour to match :). 

[Dale_V]

hi, which dealership did you take it to?

 

I think i may have an issue with my shocks, and as it seems the lexus dealership you took yours to have decent knowloedge of if theyre past their best, then id like to goto the same dealership

 

anyway, good work so far :)

[Spacewagon52]

58 minutes ago, Haylands said:

 

Front struts £584.17 each

Rear struts £620.56 each

VAT  £481.89

Total £2891.35

 

Or I suppose the middle option of front struts from Arnott (Known good quality) and rears from Jovoll (Arnott don't make rears yet) which would work out around £1,500

I think I know what I'm going to do but please feel free to comment and call me names for being a t**t or similar...!!!!!

 

 

Interesting. My friend just put his VW Passat (54 reg, 150,000 miles) in for an MOT at VW main dealer. One headlight will not adjust - they quoted him £500 for both headlights on top of other work which would cost £300. £800 - More than the car is worth! Fortunately he did not just accept the price and stated that could surely do something to adjust the lights cheaper. They came baxk with £136 for Unipart headlight. Goes to show what happens if you don't question the price!

That was for TWO VW headlights - £500.

My neighbour paid a VW bill (Passat petrol 2007 model) for £2200 for an MOT - shock absorbers and the like! It is not just Lexus who are expensive.

[Malc]

but is the Lexus price £2500/£2891 PLUS fitting ?

Malc

[Spacewagon52]

12 minutes ago, ScousePaul said:

Personally I'd take a deep breath and go with the Lexus option, but that's just because I don't have your mechanical skills and would hope they'd do a good warrantied job of it. It's the age-old problem with running a luxury car though. We can pick them up cheap s/h but shouldn't expect future parts and labour to match :). 

When you consider the new price (then) of the LS 460 - it does not seem so bad. You are running a luxury car, and when things do go wrong it will cost. No different, I would guess than a Merc / Jag / BMW equivalent. Would take my chances on a Lexus but not a Jag.

[Haylands]

Paul, Very unlikely to happen..!!!

Dale, Lexus Hull.

David, yep some parts are silly....

Malc, Yes as I said, supply only, fronts are pretty quick but rears mean back seat, parcel shelf etc out...

David, Genuine Range Rover air struts are £250 each, but I bet they have made a few million more... I don't think it's a bad price but if there is a cheaper way to get the same thing....

[ScousePaul]

13 minutes ago, Spacewagon52 said:

When you consider the new price (then) of the LS 460 - it does not seem so bad. You are running a luxury car, and when things do go wrong it will cost. No different, I would guess than a Merc / Jag / BMW equivalent. Would take my chances on a Lexus but not a Jag.

Yes I agree. I drive older Lexuses for the long haul so don't mind paying for the maintenance. All being well it won't be any more expensive than running a much newer econobox (I also work from home so mpg isn't a big driver for me).

[ScousePaul]

1 minute ago, Haylands said:

Paul, Very unlikely to happen..!!!

I thought as much :-). 

 

Really enjoying this thread btw.

[Dale_V]

Thanks, thats great... did they give any indication to how they concluded they were "past their best"

 

I guess then us guys with LS460's could have a go at testing/evaluating our shocks ourselves before taking it to dealerships

 

cheers

[sorcerer]

41 minutes ago, Spacewagon52 said:

Interesting. My friend just put his VW Passat (54 reg, 150,000 miles) in for an MOT at VW main dealer. One headlight will not adjust - they quoted him £500 for both headlights on top of other work which would cost £300. £800 - More than the car is worth!

Why on earth would someone go to the main dealer for anything (unless it can't be sourced elsewhere) let alone an MOT for a 12 year old car that's done 150,000 miles? And why would that person, having gone to the main dealers, be surprised by a high-value quote/bill? They aren't nicknamed 'main stealers' for nothing. All the plush carpets, comfortable seats and the 'free' coffee and biscuits have to be paid for somehow.

[Spacewagon52]

53 minutes ago, sorcerer said:

Why on earth would someone go to the main dealer for anything (unless it can't be sourced elsewhere) let alone an MOT for a 12 year old car that's done 150,000 miles? And why would that person, having gone to the main dealers, be surprised by a high-value quote/bill? They aren't nicknamed 'main stealers' for nothing. All the plush carpets, comfortable seats and the 'free' coffee and biscuits have to be paid for somehow.

I could not agree more but he bought it from the main dealers and has always had it serviced there ..... " They know the car....." And they also know he is loyal custom and  has a large wallet.

 

.

 

[Haylands]

1 hour ago, Dale_V said:

Thanks, thats great... did they give any indication to how they concluded they were "past their best"

 

I guess then us guys with LS460's could have a go at testing/evaluating our shocks ourselves before taking it to dealerships

 

cheers

Here you go, did a video and uploaded it for you...

Lexus LS460 failed Left N/S (RHD) rear shock absorber (damper) This is standard running on air suspension. Right side bounced 5 times then released, car rises then settles, Left side bounced 5 times, was easier to bounce, and when released it went up, down, back up and settled. You must do this with the engine running, in Park and parking brake set.

It's basically pretty easy to tell, if you're fillings fall out when you go over a pothole and your glovebox rattles about 10 times then they are probably failing, to be honest i was 99% sure they were gone, but it's a big expense and I don't have a lot of experience with air suspension on cars, and haven't actually driven another 460...

If anyone wants to come and have a drive before it's fixed then let me know, perhaps we can have an LS meet at mine....

[Spacewagon52]

Saw some of your Range Rover off-roading exploits! How the hell you dared take that rangie through that gap I will never know. Was your backside twitching? Mine was watching it! I have done a little off-roading and know how difficult it can be! Very impressive. I am not off-topic as I was comparing the LS460 suspensionwith a Range Rover!

[Haylands]

Loads of room...!!! had it brushing both door handles several times....I carried a chainsaw for when it didn't fit..!!

Took it everywhere for three years and only got a few small dents... loads breaking on eBay and panels are cheap so wasn't too worried....

[Dale_V]

Thanks alot for the video, I thought one of my shocks was knocking, but after I had a look under it yesterday it turns out to be an ill fitting undershield near the sump.

 

Im up for a ls460 meet

[GrahamG]

Thanks for that video, it makes very clear the failed shock absorber.

For the entertainment you have provided us we should all make a contribution to Lexus replacement struts for you.

If you are to preserve the value of all the fine work done so far can you really consider non Lexus parts for such a critical application. 

[Dale_V]

Heres my 2p on which struts to go for:

Im quite a follower of OEM only parts, however I cant help but think sometimes you have to try non oem just because of cost. An example is the upper front wishbones on an LS400, they're £350??? from Lexus and its just an arm with a balljoint and 2 bushes! I bought cheap £35 each ones and theyve lasted about 5 years/60,000 miles so far, and they passed the MOT 2 days ago too.

 

My theory was that if they lasted a month, its lesson learned and to just go OEM and not much money lost. If they last a year they've done ok and just buy some more at that price, renew them yearly...(its an easy job)

 

Then we get to the LS460 struts, aftermarket at £750, its still alot of money, so surely a £750 product cant be such bad quality, and from price comparison to other shocks made by manufacturers like jag, range rover, bmw, the OEM lexus are expensive, why? lexus pricing? they surely cant be 3 - 4 times the quality of the aftermarket struts

 

Id be tempted to buy the cheap ones.. be a guinea pig for all us LS460 owners :p

[Haylands]

I'm a firm believer that if they don't do much then I'll give aftermarket a try, the suspension arms I've just replaced are a case in point, they are not OEM but they are made by a company that produces other OEM parts so hopefully the standards are across the board...

As has been mentioned, these struts go a long way towards the ride and handling of a car capable of 0-60mph in 5.5 secs and a derestricted top speed of 178mph, both of which I plan to use...

I wasn't that up on if/how/where and when air struts work, or don't work... After some heavy reading it transpires that there is a massive amount of R&D done to tune an air strut, beyond just the basic load, compression, rebound etc the shock (although the Americans are right here, we should call them a damper as that is what they do) has to be fine tuned to the rate or the airbag and vice versa, size, weight of material, pressure loads, the list goes on....

My issue with the aftermarket ones is not "would they last" but more "will they work the same at 178mph" the answer is one massive question mark....

There is also the financial side, would you spend £7.50 to try to save paying £25.00... NO, so why do it for £750 and £2,500 

So I know I said to Paul "Very unlikely to happen..!!!" But, after considering everything I can't contemplate fitting the aftermarket ones.

Four new GENUINE air struts will be ordered from Lexus this afternoon...

 

[Spacewagon52]

£2500 is that excluding VAT and fitting or inclusive?

[Spacewagon52]

£2500 with discount but not fitting, sorry from you previous post.