Cheap LS460, the fun starts...

[Carl911]

Great read and the calliper look great. I put the same tyres on my GS450 last time and have been very pleased with them, they are more than grippy enough for most driving conditions and more importantly to me, they are quieter than many other brands I have tried.

carl

[Farqui]

Good job, the caliper painting looks great and I like the tip about the decals.

[ambermarine]

Peter

Great tutorial and one of the best on here for a long time some great tips with regard to paint applications, enjoy your car .

[Bluesman]

On 29/01/2017 at 9:58 PM, Tulpen said:

Some of the display messages are pretty good also. A couple of weeks ago I got a message 'Air Conditioning Filter Requires Changing'. I checked the filter, which I knew had been changed in Nov 2015, (it is in the glove box - same as the 400) and the problem was leaves. I blew the filter through, gently, with compressed air and refitted it. The message had gone.

This is what the inside of mine looks like (I live in Holland).

Fantastic.

[Haylands]

Just been having a look at the tyres as one has a slow puncture and the TPMS warned me, the one with a leak is the rear offside and it's a Continental SUV tyre, the two nearside ones are Pirelli PZero's and the front offside is a Potentun UHP !!!

I'm hoping this mix of tyres, all fairly worn, the ultra cheap Potentum and all the curbing sidewall cuts are going a long way towards the last anomalies of the driving experience...

Roll on a week tomorrow when the new ones will go on.... and why does it take 5 working days to get anything these days, if amazon can get just about anything to my door next day why can't a good British firm like Dunlop, oh yeah, I forgot, now owned by Goodyear and a Japanese rubber firm who make all the tyres in China, Slovenia or Poland....!!! 

[ambermarine]

Peter

I note from your excellent updates so far that you have not seen it incumbent to replace any of the arms on the rear of the car.

I only broach this subject because the early LS400 s were very poor at the back end on bushings after 120ks I had to replace the trailing arms and upper wishbones when My Mark 1 started vibrating like hell at certain speeds.

Now I know the 460 is a totally different set up but from the wear you have had on the front end is the rear likely to have some.

I suspect when you put on those new tyres you will get an answer to this query.

[Tulpen]

Peter, I'm really enjoying your 'tutorial' :)

I've got Dunlop SP Sport MAXXX GT 245/45 ZR19 tyres fitted to my 460. They were OEM and I've stuck with them. They are quiet and durable. There is a proviso, however......... I live in a country where the roads are looked after. Every time I come back to the UK, I'm appalled at the state of the highways.

[Haylands]

1 hour ago, ambermarine said:

Peter

I note from your excellent updates so far that you have not seen it incumbent to replace any of the arms on the rear of the car.

I only broach this subject because the early LS400 s were very poor at the back end on bushings after 120ks I had to replace the trailing arms and upper wishbones when My Mark 1 started vibrating like hell at certain speeds.

Now I know the 460 is a totally different set up but from the wear you have had on the front end is the rear likely to have some.

I suspect when you put on those new tyres you will get an answer to this query.

My trusty crowbar tells me there is no play at all on any rear bushings... if he's lying he's in trouble.... to be fair the only play at the front was the upper arms, if the tyres don't sort it then I think it's the big one.... air strut...

38 minutes ago, Tulpen said:

Peter, I'm really enjoying your 'tutorial' :)

I've got Dunlop SP Sport MAXXX GT 245/45 ZR19 tyres fitted to my 460. They were OEM and I've stuck with them. They are quiet and durable. There is a proviso, however......... I live in a country where the roads are looked after. Every time I come back to the UK, I'm appalled at the state of the highways.

Glad you are enjoying it...

I looked at the GT but they are run flats so thought they would be a bit hard, they are shown as 1db quieter than the RT's though....

I live up north and our roads aren't quite as bad as down south, you sort of learn where the big ones are and drive round them, we can't afford to repair the roads here as we sent all our money to the EU to build roads for everyone else... but that's a different story...!!!

[Chris Skelton]

No, not so! We contribute less per capita to Europe than some. It's just us! The Tory policy of reducing 'debt' meant severe cuts in EVERYTHING, yet still we vote them in.

Governments in Europe seem able to maintain their infrastructure better, whilst we waste BILLIONS bailing out dishonest banks and paying Private/expensive firms to run things.

Don't fall for that stupid/kneejerk concept of "It's all europe"

(Ironically, quite a lot of regulations from Europe originate HERE!)

If we put the tax income from road transport back into infrastructure we'd have gold plated roads by now!! Most of the Tax/VAT from vehicles is siphoned off to support other stuff.

80% of fuel is tax, for example.

Anyway; great write up. I thought washing my car was an effort!

I recall getting Dunlop tyres from Japan to get correct tyres for the Ser 3 400.

I have fond memories of cruising along empty highways in Andalucia-and in SUNSHINE!

[jonthetourist]

1 hour ago, Chris Skelton said:

No, not so! We contribute less per capita to Europe than some. It's just us! The Tory policy of reducing 'debt' meant severe cuts in EVERYTHING, yet still we vote them in.

Governments in Europe seem able to maintain their infrastructure better, whilst we waste BILLIONS bailing out dishonest banks and paying Private/expensive firms to run things.

Don't fall for that stupid/kneejerk concept of "It's all europe"

(Ironically, quite a lot of regulations from Europe originate HERE!)

If we put the tax income from road transport back into infrastructure we'd have gold plated roads by now!! Most of the Tax/VAT from vehicles is siphoned off to support other stuff.

I think the forum works best if we resist any temptation to climb onto political soapboxes. And we undoubtedly contribute more than any country other than Germany, so Haylands was technically correct in his throwaway line.

Jon

[Haylands]

Well, the new tyres turned up three days early so had them fitted today, found one issue, they had taped the TPMS valves inside the tyres on the wheel rim, they had been sawn off the wheels, I guess when they were refurbished.... They hadn't stayed put for long and all were loose inside the tyres.... Anyway I had preempted that and had a new set of five ready to fit.. the tyre place fitted the tyres and the new valves very carefully and I was very pleased with the amount of care shown as you know what some tyre fitters are like... The old tyres had numerous repairs and one had a nail in it, they all had a massive amount of balance weights on them...

They weren't able to code in the new valves though and recommended a local Jap car specialist who got into the system OK and coded the four new ones in but it also asked for the spare wheel's number which we didn't have as it hasn't been refurbed and is still in place. He tried to exit the coding after 4 were entered and the display immediately changed from "0" to "checking" and has stayed saying "checking" ever since.... weird.... At least the warning light is out... I'll have a play when I sort out the diagnostics I've bought for it..

Anyway, off for a test drive and it is a million times better than it was, the intermittent, sometimes violent wheel wobble has gone totally but it still isn't right... the velvet smooth ride is there on a velvet smooth road, but hit a pothole, or worse, a ridge across the road that both wheels hit at the same time, and the car shimmys, again it is much better with the new front arms than it was but it should be better...

I am coming to the conclusion that the front struts are worn, the suspension is not hard but the damping seems to be suffering.... Due to the high price of two front struts I have booked the car in with Lexus Hull for a diagnostic check on Wednesday morning to substantiate my fears... Haven't been in the dealer since I had the 430, about 10 years,  but was still recognised by two of the guys working there.. The service manager reckons that the struts start to fail around the 100,000 mile mark and I'm just over that...

I am being fussy with this, the guy at the independants took it for a drive and reconned it was alright...!!! If it's mine though, it has to be right...

If it is the struts the best price I have seen so far is £1179.00 for a pair of Arnott Industries ones, delivered from Rock auto in the States. Interestingly Euro Car Spares are now Arnott Industries importer to this country but they want £1540.00 for a pair.... They were rather annoyed when I mentioned Rock Auto's price as the guy said that they pay more than that for them...!!!

If anyone knows anyone else selling struts please let me know I was too scared to ask Lexus for a price...

I do have to say it is a gorgeous car now, really does drive nice.... if you miss the potholes...!!!!

If it does need struts it goes from a "f***ing" cheap car to "just" a cheap car, but at least everything will be fully sorted for many miles to come....

 

[Carl911]

13 minutes ago, Haylands said:

Well, the new tyres turned up three days early so had them fitted today, found one issue, they had taped the TPMS valves inside the tyres on the wheel rim, they had been sawn off the wheels, I guess when they were refurbished.... They hadn't stayed put for long and all were loose inside the tyres.... Anyway I had preempted that and had a new set of five ready to fit.. the tyre place fitted the tyres and the new valves very carefully and I was very pleased with the amount of care shown as you know what some tyre fitters are like... The old tyres had numerous repairs and one had a nail in it, they all had a massive amount of balance weights on them...

They weren't able to code in the new valves though and recommended a local Jap car specialist who got into the system OK and coded the four new ones in but it also asked for the spare wheel's number which we didn't have as it hasn't been refurbed and is still in place. He tried to exit the coding after 4 were entered and the display immediately changed from "0" to "checking" and has stayed saying "checking" ever since.... weird.... At least the warning light is out... I'll have a play when I sort out the diagnostics I've bought for it..

Anyway, off for a test drive and it is a million times better than it was, the intermittent, sometimes violent wheel wobble has gone totally but it still isn't right... the velvet smooth ride is there on a velvet smooth road, but hit a pothole, or worse, a ridge across the road that both wheels hit at the same time, and the car shimmys, again it is much better with the new front arms than it was but it should be better...

I am coming to the conclusion that the front struts are worn, the suspension is not hard but the damping seems to be suffering.... Due to the high price of two front struts I have booked the car in with Lexus Hull for a diagnostic check on Wednesday morning to substantiate my fears... Haven't been in the dealer since I had the 430, about 10 years,  but was still recognised by two of the guys working there.. The service manager reckons that the struts start to fail around the 100,000 mile mark and I'm just over that...

I am being fussy with this, the guy at the independants took it for a drive and reconned it was alright...!!! If it's mine though, it has to be right...

If it is the struts the best price I have seen so far is £1179.00 for a pair of Arnott Industries ones, delivered from Rock auto in the States. Interestingly Euro Car Spares are now Arnott Industries importer to this country but they want £1540.00 for a pair.... They were rather annoyed when I mentioned Rock Auto's price as the guy said that they pay more than that for them...!!!

If anyone knows anyone else selling struts please let me know I was too scared to ask Lexus for a price...

I do have to say it is a gorgeous car now, really does drive nice.... if you miss the potholes...!!!!

If it does need struts it goes from a "f***ing" cheap car to "just" a cheap car, but at least everything will be fully sorted for many miles to come....

 

Even after many years of Lexus ownership I still cannot understand how some parts cost so much. Surely there's a cheaper solution somewhere?

other than the price of parts, well done on doing an amazing job

carl

[Haylands]

I think it's down to economy of scale, last year there were 5,300 Lexus LS's registered in the UK of them only 764 were LS460's

There are 13,408 Audi A8's registered and well over twice that in BMW 7 series....

Exclusivity has it's price....

 

 

[Haylands]

In fact the LS is more exclusive than Aston Martins, there are 5,542 registered...!!!

[RgrWynne]

Like it !!!

Cheers, Roger

[lockeyboy]

4 hours ago, Carl911 said:

Even after many years of Lexus ownership I still cannot understand how some parts cost so much. Surely there's a cheaper solution somewhere?

other than the price of parts, well done on doing an amazing job

carl

I'm disappointed you're not just making your own to be honest...

[Tulpen]

I had the same TPMS issue. I had a low tyre pressure warning very close to a KwikFit. I pulled in to get the wheels checked - they found a nail in one of the front tyres. It was repairable and did it as I waited. When I drove off, I had the 'checking' indication. Back I went and discovered that the young lad who did the job had replaced the valve stem - 'we always do that'. I sent him off to sift through the bins and, luckily, he found the old one. When it was put back in the wheel, the indications were all normal.

There are more cars with TPMS so, hopefully, tyre depots THINK before throwing out the old valve stems.

But I wouldn't bet on it.

 

[ambermarine]

Peter

I have followed this thread with keen interest and I think the members owe you a round of applause for your detailed reports on progress with your refurb of this car.

When I was replacing the Mark 1 I looked at the 460 as an option but the main reason I did not pursue the notion was lack of feedback on onward repairs and anomalies,you have now provided that in spades and given a whole insight into the pros and cons of purchasing a second hand example with little history.

The engineering is superb but even good engineering will suffer under abuse and to be fair I think your car as had a bit of abuse so  renewals may not come as thick and fast on similar example year of registration if the car as been Lexus serviced and the car driven as a Lexus should be.

Thanks again.

 

[Scribe]

Or, instead of abuse, it could just be that parts aren't made to the same quality that they were, and so wear out more quickly?  We know that manufacturers can't afford to over-engineer cars like Lexus did with the 400.

[sorcerer]

13 hours ago, Haylands said:

I think it's down to economy of scale, last year there were 5,300 Lexus LS's registered in the UK of them only 764 were LS460's

There are 13,408 Audi A8's registered and well over twice that in BMW 7 series....

Exclusivity has it's price....

 

 

I'm sure that economy of scale will play a part in it, but I'm also convinced that they charge so much purely just 'because they can.'

I'll bet we all have our own pet examples but one that I came across about five years ago still narks the hell out of me every time something triggers the memory. Below you'll see two pictures. One of them is a pressed steel, black enamelled roasting tin, bought on Preston Market or Argos or wherever for about £4.99. The other is a pressed steel, black enamelled sump pan for my old Nissan Maxima QX. Ok, it has some nice 'cross-hatching' on it that does absolutely nothing other than make it look pretty and it has a few more holes than the roasting tin - but nothing that I can see to justify its £147 price tag!

 

[goldtop]

43 minutes ago, sorcerer said:

I'm sure that economy of scale will play a part in it, but I'm also convinced that they charge so much purely just 'because they can.'

I'll bet we all have our own pet examples but one that I came across about five years ago still narks the hell out of me every time something triggers the memory. Below you'll see two pictures. One of them is a pressed steel, black enamelled roasting tin, bought on Preston Market or Argos or wherever for about £4.99. The other is a pressed steel, black enamelled sump pan for my old Nissan Maxima QX. Ok, it has some nice 'cross-hatching' on it that does absolutely nothing other than make it look pretty and it has a few more holes than the roasting tin - but nothing that I can see to justify its £147 price tag!

 

Not sure if serious! Can you really not identify plenty of reasons for the price difference? Stuff like materials, manufacturing tolerances, MTBF requirements, complexity, cost of tooling per unit, reseller margins, likely time from manufacture to sale, possibility that a unit may never sell due to diminishing demand, etc.

To the OP on the shimmy thing, I may have missed whether you've had the alignment done, but my Mk4 LS400 needed it at 100,000m. This was also due to a shimmy, which was like an asymmetrical 'wiggle' on hitting some holes/ruts. I took it to a local specialist with the latest gear, and they acctually made it worse. So I took it all the way to 'Wheels in Motion' (who I think gained some priase for sorting out bad tyre wear on IS200s). They had the exact same gear, but sorted the shimmy completely.

[Scribe]

I wouldn't be at all surprised if manufacturers mark up the price of a part for an expensive luxury car while selling something very similar for a cheaper car at a much lower price. 

[Chris Skelton]

Tony Bones! 'Wheels in Motion' are ace. True professionals.

I'm sure there must be others, but where?

 

Apologies for my Euro comments! (But a comment saying we've sent 'all our money to Europe' was guaranteed a response?)

Especially seeing how our wonderful govt behaves.

 

[jonthetourist]

15 minutes ago, Chris Skelton said:

Tony Bones! 'Wheels in Motion' are ace. True professionals.

I'm sure there must be others, but where?

Chris Mullins tyres in Gloucester used to work with WiM and really know their stuff. When I told them I had an R129 SL some years ago the two guys both groaned, knowing what they were in for. After over 2 hours they said they could get the setup right, but they couldn't keep it right because of rust on the control rod threads. I said I would get replacement rods and they happily let me go off, only charging me when it was spot on.

15 minutes ago, Chris Skelton said:

Apologies for my Euro comments! (But a comment saying we've sent 'all our money to Europe' was guaranteed a response?)

Especially seeing how our wonderful govt behaves.

You're at it again! 

;)

[Haylands]

Mark, Believe me I have looked into refurbishing the struts that are on there but they are welded closed... too big a job for a DIY refurb and no one this side of the pond does it...

Brian, I've got new sensors all round now, as they are now a compulsory item on new cars then Kwikfit and the like will learn...

Phil, I don't think it's been abused, it's never been loved, just used.... it will never match the quality of the 400 and I didn't expect it to, I did think long and hard about getting a late 430 but I've had one of them and I prefer the look of the 460, I've read, and been told they start to have suspension issues around 100,000 so was expecting issues, the two bottom arms were just preventative maintenance it was only the top arms that failed and even the 400 suffers with that...  

Scribe, Yep, I think you're right... built to a cost now, not a specification...

Barry, I had it four wheel aligned and it is now back within tolerance, Years ago I took my 430 to Wheels in Motion as I was down that way and they did do a good job but you have to remember there is NO adjustment on the front for camber or castor, the arms and strut fixing are fixed, there is nothing to adjust except the tracking on the 430 and 460, the rears have some camber adjustment but that's it...

I think most of the issues with alignment is that the operator doesn't understand the system or appreciate the need to correct and centre the rack, Wheels in Motion do understand it and do it correctly.. Mine has been done correctly as I helped do it...!!!

Chris, It was just a throwaway comment... enough said... what I have is not an alignment issue..

Jon, As you say, it's down to the operator....

Lets see what the guys at Lexus reckon tomorrow, I need another set of eyes to look at it before throwing money at the issue....