New buyer: Lexus GS450h 3rd generation, pre-facelift vs post facelift

[HenryHippo]

Thanks a lot chaps for helping me navigate these murky waters.

I need to send a letter by recorded Delivery to their address, not simply a phone call/ drive there and demand a refund on the spot?

One foreseeable problem is that my issue is intermittent (boot lid not closing) and if the boot shuts fine when I am at the dealer then can they just refuse on the grounds that there is no fault? (Also a warning light came on recently but that problem isn't grounds for returning it?)

I remember reading somewhere that dealers can't charge for wear and tear so surely there is no fair use charge? 

I paid mostly on debit card but also a token amount on credit

[Shahpor]

Could you email them?  It is better to do it in writing so you have some proof.  Although, if you email them, make sure you get them to reply to confirm receipt.

How often does the fault occur?  Next time it happens, get a video to show them.

Did you put more than £100 on the credit card then?  It would make things easier.

Also, according to what I have read, they can charge you a fair use fee for the time you have used it.

[hprice1099]

For quickness I would personally take the are to Lexus, tell them of all your concerns and get a report off them of what they have found. This you can take to the dealer as proof of the issues, if they fob you off inform them you’re going to instruct Lexus to make the repairs and take them to small claims court to retrieve the money. :)

 

[HenryHippo]

22 hours ago, Shahpor said:

Could you email them?  It is better to do it in writing so you have some proof.  Although, if you email them, make sure you get them to reply to confirm receipt.

How often does the fault occur?  Next time it happens, get a video to show them.

Did you put more than £100 on the credit card then?  It would make things easier.

Also, according to what I have read, they can charge you a fair use fee for the time you have used it.

I haven't opened the boot in 2 weeks so I can't answer the question about how often it occurs. I don't dare open the boot in case it fails to close again, rendering the car undriveable as I can't leave it in a public place with the boot open in case it is vandalised or similar.

I sent them a letter by recorded delivery. No, I didn't realise at the time that it had to be £100 (lesson learned), so it was less than that. I wonder what constitutes a fair use, I'm sure they will push for something unfair

18 hours ago, hprice1099 said:

For quickness I would personally take the are to Lexus, tell them of all your concerns and get a report off them of what they have found. This you can take to the dealer as proof of the issues, if they fob you off inform them you’re going to instruct Lexus to make the repairs and take them to small claims court to retrieve the money. :)

 

 

 

That's a good idea. Won't Lexus charge for this though? I asked for an inspection post sale from my local Lexus and they said all they could do was a free (superficial sounding) inspection or a more thorough one as part of a £599 service :(

[GSLV6]

On 08/02/2017 at 10:53 AM, HenryHippo said:

Thanks a lot chaps for helping me navigate these murky waters.

I need to send a letter by recorded Delivery to their address, not simply a phone call/ drive there and demand a refund on the spot?

One foreseeable problem is that my issue is intermittent (boot lid not closing) and if the boot shuts fine when I am at the dealer then can they just refuse on the grounds that there is no fault? (Also a warning light came on recently but that problem isn't grounds for returning it?)

I remember reading somewhere that dealers can't charge for wear and tear so surely there is no fair use charge? 

I paid mostly on debit card but also a token amount on credit

No, they cannot refuse as:

1) legally, the burden of proof lies with them and not you and ;

2) Under the Consumer Rights Act you are entitled to a full refund within 30 days if you are not satisfied with the vehicle irrespective of a fault being proved or not.

To exercise that, all you need do is write to them and state that you are not satisfied with the car and under the Act, are returning it for a full refund minus they're reasonable loss due to any mileage being put on the vehicle.  This can be calculated as the likely devaluation plus their reasonable administration costs, with the emphasis on "Reasonable".

This may cost a few hundred pounds at most.  Any more than that, and small claims court beckons...

If they then refuse the refund, you can take them to court (or threaten to) and you will win the case and they will be lumbered with all the legal costs.  They know this, so there's positive motivation not to mess you about and simply refund you.

[HenryHippo]

4 hours ago, GSLV6 said:

No, they cannot refuse as:

1) legally, the burden of proof lies with them and not you and ;

2) Under the Consumer Rights Act you are entitled to a full refund within 30 days if you are not satisfied with the vehicle irrespective of a fault being proved or not.

To exercise that, all you need do is write to them and state that you are not satisfied with the car and under the Act, are returning it for a full refund minus they're reasonable loss due to any mileage being put on the vehicle.  This can be calculated as the likely devaluation plus their reasonable administration costs, with the emphasis on "Reasonable".

This may cost a few hundred pounds at most.  Any more than that, and small claims court beckons...

If they then refuse the refund, you can take them to court (or threaten to) and you will win the case and they will be lumbered with all the legal costs.  They know this, so there's positive motivation not to mess you about and simply refund you.

Thanks very much for that. I didn't actually realise the 2nd point. So just to clarify, anyone can buy a second hand car, say they don't like it (or lie about a fault that is intermittent) and return it within 30 days to get their money back (minus a few hundred for wear and tear)?

I actually went today told them about the boot problem, it wasn't playing up so they just said it was fine and there is nothing they can do. I have left it with them though as they need to get the Hybrid system looked at, so balls in their court now. I also got them to a sign a document saying on this date (within 30 days of buying the car), I alerted them to the above problems, so I have some proof if this ever goes to court.

[GSLV6]

No, you can't lie about anything, but the law changed a while back and the fact is that the onus of proof for the fault, intermittent or not, does not lay with you, it is with the vendor to disprove or prove.   If you are unsatisfied with the car, I think I'm right in saying that you can return it subject to certain steps being taken.  You need to read your rights under the Act and see them through.  A solicitor should be able to tell you.  Try the Citizen's Advice Bureau in the first instance.