New buyer: Lexus GS450h 3rd generation, pre-facelift vs post facelift

[HenryHippo]

Hi :)

I am going to buy a 3rd gen GS450h. I drove a 2007 (pre-facelift) yesterday and was very impressed.

I am considering the facelifted version. However the only benefits I can see are: wing mirror indicators and a bigger boot

What else does the facelift have added to it?

[Shahpor]

Welcome

As far as I am aware, the boot space is the same for both pre and post facelift cars?

The main differences are:

 

"Revised Pre-Crash Safety system and new active headrests

The Pre-Crash Safety system in the GS 450h has been revised to support the pre-crash seatbelt and brake assist functions with pre-crash brake technology. Both front seats are fitted with new, inflator-operated active headrests, activated by a signal from the ECU in the event of a rear-end impact. The inflator slides a piston into the headrest, unlocks the mechanism and projects the headrest forwards and upwards to support the occupant’s head and reduce the risk of whiplash injury.

Navigation and audio upgrades

In common with its sister Lexus models, the GS 450h is adopting a new hard disc drive (HDD) navigation system with the 40GB capacity, giving Europe-wide coverage with traffic information data capture in each country.

Two audio systems are featured in the GS 450h range: a 10-speaker Lexus premium package and a 14-speaker Mark Levinson Premium Surround Sound System giving 5.1-channel surround sound on selected CDs and DVDs. Both systems are now DAB ready and provide USB and audio jack plug connection for fully controlled use of portable music players, and Bluetooth with an audio streaming function.

Both systems also provide a “sound library” function, using the navigation system’s HDD to transfer and store music files from CD up to 10GB capacity – the equivalent of about 2,000 music tracks.

Styling

The 2010 GS 450h wears a distinctive new front grille that features a series of horizontal bars of different thickness. The hybrid-blue rear lamp clusters have been modified to incorporate larger, transparent outer lenses and a new 18-inch alloy wheel design has been introduced for the SE-L.

In the cabin there is a new hybrid-blue backlit stop/start button and the choice of a new Venaro Grey semi-aniline leather upholstery option, with contrasting black stitching and grey bird’s eye maple wood grain trim.

The range of 11 exterior colours includes three new shades: (Vanilla Mist, Richmond Green and Atlantic Blue)."

 

Although they have left out the most important element:  It no longer has a tape deck!

[OldTrout]

Hi Jamie and welcome.

This forum is a wonderful source of information and the 450h is indeed very impressive.

If you read some of the other threads you will see that the dampers of the 450h are perhaps its weakest point. Inspect all four thoroughly for any signs of oil - even misting which rapidly becomes leaking. The dampers are very expensive (£311.40 each today) so if not satisfied have them replaced before you buy. Do not rely on Lexus extended warranty to replace them especially if the car has done more than 100k miles.

Others will comment on the facelift mods.

John

 

 

[GSLV6]

Dampers on the pre facelift didn't seem any better tbh.  My Gen 3 had to have 3 of the 4 shock absorbers replaced between 60 and 70K miles.  Cost for the pre-facelift were cheaper to replace it seems (2007 model).  My personal observation of the Lexus models I've owned, the best built seem to have been 2000 to 2007 models.

[HenryHippo]

24 minutes ago, Shahpor said:

Welcome

As far as I am aware, the boot space is the same for both pre and post facelift cars?

The main differences are:

 

"Revised Pre-Crash Safety system and new active headrests

The Pre-Crash Safety system in the GS 450h has been revised to support the pre-crash seatbelt and brake assist functions with pre-crash brake technology. Both front seats are fitted with new, inflator-operated active headrests, activated by a signal from the ECU in the event of a rear-end impact. The inflator slides a piston into the headrest, unlocks the mechanism and projects the headrest forwards and upwards to support the occupant’s head and reduce the risk of whiplash injury.

Navigation and audio upgrades

In common with its sister Lexus models, the GS 450h is adopting a new hard disc drive (HDD) navigation system with the 40GB capacity, giving Europe-wide coverage with traffic information data capture in each country.

Two audio systems are featured in the GS 450h range: a 10-speaker Lexus premium package and a 14-speaker Mark Levinson Premium Surround Sound System giving 5.1-channel surround sound on selected CDs and DVDs. Both systems are now DAB ready and provide USB and audio jack plug connection for fully controlled use of portable music players, and Bluetooth with an audio streaming function.

Both systems also provide a “sound library” function, using the navigation system’s HDD to transfer and store music files from CD up to 10GB capacity – the equivalent of about 2,000 music tracks.

Styling

The 2010 GS 450h wears a distinctive new front grille that features a series of horizontal bars of different thickness. The hybrid-blue rear lamp clusters have been modified to incorporate larger, transparent outer lenses and a new 18-inch alloy wheel design has been introduced for the SE-L.

In the cabin there is a new hybrid-blue backlit stop/start button and the choice of a new Venaro Grey semi-aniline leather upholstery option, with contrasting black stitching and grey bird’s eye maple wood grain trim.

The range of 11 exterior colours includes three new shades: (Vanilla Mist, Richmond Green and Atlantic Blue)."

 

Although they have left out the most important element:  It no longer has a tape deck!

Wow thanks for all that. I read somewhere that the boot was marginally bigger because the batteries were smaller. Maybe that's not correct though

Seems to be very little difference then between facelifts, certainly not enough to justify a couple of k more

Haha, the tape deck was awesome :D

[HenryHippo]

14 minutes ago, OldTrout said:

Hi Jamie and welcome.

This forum is a wonderful source of information and the 450h is indeed very impressive.

If you read some of the other threads you will see that the dampers of the 450h are perhaps its weakest point. Inspect all four thoroughly for any signs of oil - even misting which rapidly becomes leaking. The dampers are very expensive (£311.40 each today) so if not satisfied have them replaced before you buy. Do not rely on Lexus extended warranty to replace them especially if the car has done more than 100k miles.

Others will comment on the facelift mods.

John

Hi John,

Thanks for the advice. The damper problem is regardless of facelift I assume?

14 minutes ago, OldTrout said:

 

 

[royoftherovers]

57 minutes ago, HenryHippo said:

Hi :)

I am going to buy a 3rd gen GS450h. I drove a 2007 (pre-facelift) yesterday and was very impressed.

I am considering the facelifted version. However the only benefits I can see are: wing mirror indicators and a bigger boot

What else does the facelift have added to it?

Hi Jamie and welcome.

You do not say whether you are buying from a Motor Dealer/Trader, an Official Lexus Dealer or a Private Buyer.

If you can let us know, there will be different avenues of advice for you.

Regards

John

[HenryHippo]

20 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

Hi Jamie and welcome.

You do not say whether you are buying from a Motor Dealer/Trader, an Official Lexus Dealer or a Private Buyer.

If you can let us know, there will be different avenues of advice for you.

Regards

John

Hi John!

The car I viewed yesterday was a trader, but I am going to look at more and almost certainly private buyers. I can't imagine I will be dealing with Lexus dealers as I would be buying a car at least 8 years old

 

[royoftherovers]

25 minutes ago, HenryHippo said:

Hi John!

The car I viewed yesterday was a trader, but I am going to look at more and almost certainly private buyers. I can't imagine I will be dealing with Lexus dealers as I would be buying a car at least 8 years old

 

Many thanks Jamie.

I apologise if I am telling you something you already know, but;

If you buy from an Official Lexus Dealer, then you will probably receive a free 12 month fairly comprenensive warranty, at the end of which ,assuming that your car is not then more than 10 years old or has covered more than 140,000 miles you currently have the opportunity to purchase an Official Lexus Extended 2 year Warranty which will cover most things (but not wear and tear items) and which will include the Hybrid Battery.This could take your car  to say, 12 years old and 160,000 miles.

If you buy from a Dealer/Trader, he will give you some kind of warranty,which in practice not be worth a great deal and will not cover any defects which were present when you bought the car from him.

The Dealer/Trader is however required to honour a Statutory Warranty which under the Sale Of Goods Act as amended by the Consumer Rights Act 2015 requires him to fix at his cost any significant defect which occurs within 6 months of purchase or was present or occurring at the point of sale.

In the event of you buying from such Dealer/Trader I would advise you to take your new purchase to the nearest Lexus Dealer and ask them to examine the vehicle, state in writing such  defects as are apparent to them.You can then return to the Dealer/Trader and request that he fix them at his cost.

If you purchase from a Private Seller, then you must take along someone who can assist you to be satisfied that the vehicle is not "a lemon." The Private Seller is unlikely to be in any position to provide you with any kind of warranty, so you will be very much on your own in the event of having to spend money on repairs. Unless, of course you can prove that the seller mislead you and concealed from you defects of which he was aware,but did not disclose to you. A minefield that is !!

Jamie, I hope that you find the above useful and once again I apologise "if I`m trying teach you to suck eggs."

I wish you well in your venture to find a suitable Lexus and do hope that you will keep us all informed of your progress.

 

Regards

John

[HenryHippo]

10 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

Many thanks Jamie.

I apologise if I am telling you something you already know, but;

If you buy from an Official Lexus Dealer, then you will probably receive a free 12 month fairly comprenensive warranty, at the end of which ,assuming that your car is not then more than 10 years old or has covered more than 140,000 miles you currently have the opportunity to purchase an Official Lexus Extended 2 year Warranty which will cover most things (but not wear and tear items) and which will include the Hybrid Battery.This could take your car  to say, 12 years old and 160,000 miles.

If you buy from a Dealer/Trader, he will give you some kind of warranty,which in practice not be worth a great deal and will not cover any defects which were present when you bought the car from him.

The Dealer/Trader is however required to honour a Statutory Warranty which under the Sale Of Goods Act as amended by the Consumer Rights Act 2015 requires him to fix at his cost any significant defect which occurs within 6 months of purchase or was present or occurring at the point of sale.

In the event of you buying from such Dealer/Trader I would advise you to take your new purchase to the nearest Lexus Dealer and ask them to examine the vehicle, state in writing such  defects as are apparent to them.You can then return to the Dealer/Trader and request that he fix them at his cost.

If you purchase from a Private Seller, then you must take along someone who can assist you to be satisfied that the vehicle is not "a lemon." The Private Seller is unlikely to be in any position to provide you with any kind of warranty, so you will be very much on your own in the event of having to spend money on repairs. Unless, of course you can prove that the seller mislead you and concealed from you defects of which he was aware,but did not disclose to you. A minefield that is !!

Jamie, I hope that you find the above useful and once again I apologise "if I`m trying teach you to suck eggs."

I wish you well in your venture to find a suitable Lexus and do hope that you will keep us all informed of your progress.

 

Regards

John

Thanks a lot for this John, presumably the text in bold applies to all cars and not just Lexuses (Lexi?) ?

I am tempted to go privately to save a few pounds, although I wouldn't be in a position to ascertain the lemon status. Perhaps it would best to stick to trade, especially if the price difference is small.

[royoftherovers]

Yes Jamie.Emboldend text applies to all/any cars purchased privately.

You could ask on this Forum if any member has one(Lexus)  to sell ,or knows of one?

My advice would be to go to a Lexus Dealer to buy and do not seek a vehicle which "has lots of bells and whistles" Even a basic Lexus is well equipped. What you do not have cannot go wrong!

Do not rush into a purchase, the new reg is coming soon and more pre-owned cars will come onto the market.

If you seek to buy from a non Lexus Dealer, then try to ensure that the Trader/Dealer has had good reviews as there are a lot of sharks out there who are simply after your money.

 

Regards

John 

[Shahpor]

I am going to have to disagree slightly with John here.

The other option is to buy from a trader/private, then buy a Extended Lexus warranty.  It would cost you an additional £1095 for two years cover, but you would probably save that by not buying from a main dealer.

Obviously if you have the visual safety inspection done which is required for the warranty and they find something wrong, you are going to find it difficult to get anything out of a private seller.

What I did with mine was buy it from a car dealer which offered a warranty, and then drove it straight to the Lexus dealer to buy a Extended Warranty.  If the Lexus dealer had found a problem, I would have used the warranty the dealer offered to fix it.  As it turned out, the car was fine and has been covered by the Lexus Warranty since.

I also don't necessarily agree with the what you don't have cannot go wrong philosophy.  Being a luxury car, I love all the toys on my SE-L, which have been perfectly reliable so far.

[HenryHippo]

15 minutes ago, Shahpor said:

I am going to have to disagree slightly with John here.

The other option is to buy from a trader/private, then buy a Extended Lexus warranty.  It would cost you an additional £1095 for two years cover, but you would probably save that by not buying from a main dealer.

Obviously if you have the visual safety inspection done which is required for the warranty and they find something wrong, you are going to find it difficult to get anything out of a private seller.

What I did with mine was buy it from a car dealer which offered a warranty, and then drove it straight to the Lexus dealer to buy a Extended Warranty.  If the Lexus dealer had found a problem, I would have used the warranty the dealer offered to fix it.  As it turned out, the car was fine and has been covered by the Lexus Warranty since.

I also don't necessarily agree with the what you don't have cannot go wrong philosophy.  Being a luxury car, I love all the toys on my SE-L, which have been perfectly reliable so far.

£1095 is pretty steep for 2 years is it not? Not much less than the cost of replacing 4 dampers in the first place

How much did you have to pay for the Lexus inspection ?

[HenryHippo]

1 hour ago, royoftherovers said:

Yes Jamie.Emboldend text applies to all/any cars purchased privately.

You could ask on this Forum if any member has one(Lexus)  to sell ,or knows of one?

My advice would be to go to a Lexus Dealer to buy and do not seek a vehicle which "has lots of bells and whistles" Even a basic Lexus is well equipped. What you do not have cannot go wrong!

Do not rush into a purchase, the new reg is coming soon and more pre-owned cars will come onto the market.

If you seek to buy from a non Lexus Dealer, then try to ensure that the Trader/Dealer has had good reviews as there are a lot of sharks out there who are simply after your money.

 

Regards

John 

I will ask on here. One appeal of Lexus over german rivals is that the former is less likely to have had a hard life so I would be happy to buy from an enthusiast

My budget is about £7k, which I think is too low for anything sold at a Lexus Dealer

 

[Shahpor]

55 minutes ago, HenryHippo said:

£1095 is pretty steep for 2 years is it not? Not much less than the cost of replacing 4 dampers in the first place

How much did you have to pay for the Lexus inspection ?

£1095 is actually pretty good for 2 years warranty.  £547.50 per year, and that includes top level AA cover which is about £150 on its own every year.

Compared to what I have seen other manufacturers charge for their extended warranties, the Lexus one is a bargain.

The inspection is free, and you don't have to buy the warranty to get it done.

[royoftherovers]

1 minute ago, Shahpor said:

£1095 is actually pretty good for 2 years warranty.  £547.50 per year, and that includes top level AA cover which is about £150 on its own per year.

Compared to what I have seen other manufacturers charge for their extended warranties, the Lexus one is a bargain.

The inspection is free, and you don't have to buy the warranty to get it done.

I do not believe that there is any other warranty at any cost that will include cover for the Lexus Hybrid Battery.

if Jamie reads the detail of what is covered by the warranty,I think that he will be surprised.

 

Regards

John

 

Regards

John

[GSLV6]

Just to add a few tuppenceworth, you can probably save a little going to a non Lexus dealer, but not much.  All traders will add about 20% odd over private market value to make a living but at least going to Lexus you'll get piece of mind. I'll also buck the trend and say that in general (air suspension to one side) you are pretty safe with any Lexus getting the "bells & whistles" because things like the electrics seldom go wrong.

As for the warranty, well, I could have taken one out when buying my GS but I chose not to. The car, a few weeks later was diagnosed with a failed hydraulic tappet seal.  That was engine out to replace it, and a bill of over £3K as I had all 24 replaced in case of a bad batch originally.  The warranty would have covered that. The original trader I bought it from covered £2K of the cost so I was lucky.  It ended up costing me what the warranty would have done in the first place.  The next year, the exhaust split (at just 8 years old....a known problem with the Mk3 GS) and a shock absorber needed replacement.  The warranty, had I taken one out, would have covered all this work totalling over £4,000.  You pays your money...

I think Jamie, you're wise picking a Lexus over its German rivals.  Despite my horror story, Lexus are pretty reliable on the whole and I was just unlucky.  Compared with BMW and Mercedes, the Mk3 GS is light years ahead in build quality than any of its contemporaries.  The SE version is more fully loaded than my current F-Sport RX, and dare I say it, a nicer place to be in many ways, and remains a drivers car, albeit not one tuned for smooth tracks or developed on the Nurburgring (thankfully) but for real world roads such as ours.  Nothing the Germans makes has the compliance or refinement until you get to S Class.  Don't kid yourself about reliability of German Marques.  To a large extent, they still trade on the reliability of models made over a decade ago but any pretence of being up there with Lexus is pie in the sky.  Check out the JD power survey for the past 10 years and Lexus remains at the top.

My advice would be to have a detailed inspection done by Lexus.   If it reveals no problems, then decide if a 2 year warranty is for you.   The service agreement costs a little more than from an Indy but I took one out in case I later wanted to take the warranty out which requires the vehicle to be inspected then serviced at Lexus (so I was told).  To some extent whether you do tale a service plan or not may also depend on the reputation of your local Lexus dealer.  I'm guessing that your local dealer is Lexus Milton Keynes?

[Chris111]

When I bought my 450h 7 years ago I did a lot (and I mean a lot!) of research into this car and I found a few differences between the original and facelifted models, one being the cost of car tax. The original model is stated as emitting CO2 emissions of 186 g/km placing it in tax bracket J whilst the emissions on the facelifted model are stated at 185 g/km, meaning it is in tax bracket I. The difference is only £40.00 per year, but to some this might be important.

I would also add that the first mild facelifted version was introduced in 2008 (wing mirror indicators, tax bracket change and other minor changes) and was further followed in 2010 by the changes mentioned above by Shahpor. From my research I also noticed that some of the 'toys' that came as standard, depending on the original model's trim level, became optional extras on the facelifted models. As an example mine is a 2006 Se-l and came equipped as standard with adaptive cruise control with pre-crash saftey system (ACC/PCS) and an electric sunroof. These became an optional extra on the facelifted Se-l model so consequently not all facelifted models in Se-l spec will have this equipment fitted.

Hope this info might help and good luck with your search

Chris

 

[HenryHippo]

1 hour ago, Chris111 said:

When I bought my 450h 7 years ago I did a lot (and I mean a lot!) of research into this car and I found a few differences between the original and facelifted models, one being the cost of car tax. The original model is stated as emitting CO2 emissions of 186 g/km placing it in tax bracket J whilst the emissions on the facelifted model are stated at 185 g/km, meaning it is in tax bracket I. The difference is only £40.00 per year, but to some this might be important.

I would also add that the first mild facelifted version was introduced in 2008 (wing mirror indicators, tax bracket change and other minor changes) and was further followed in 2010 by the changes mentioned above by Shahpor. From my research I also noticed that some of the 'toys' that came as standard, depending on the original model's trim level, became optional extras on the facelifted models. As an example mine is a 2006 Se-l and came equipped as standard with adaptive cruise control with pre-crash saftey system (ACC/PCS) and an electric sunroof. These became an optional extra on the facelifted Se-l model so consequently not all facelifted models in Se-l spec will have this equipment fitted.

Hope this info might help and good luck with your search

Chris

 

Cheers Chris. Really sounds like the facelift isn't worth it

[HenryHippo]

14 hours ago, royoftherovers said:

I do not believe that there is any other warranty at any cost that will include cover for the Lexus Hybrid battery.

if Jamie reads the detail of what is covered by the warranty,I think that he will be surprised.

 

Regards

John

 

Regards

John

The car I viewed recently had the Battery changed by Hybrid Solutions. I'd heard about them before and it's £800, versus circa £3k from a Lexus Dealer

Seems that the consensus here is to go for the warranty which I will do then

It does seem that this model doesn't go wrong often but when it does it is much more expensive than a comparable 5 series/ E class/ A6 to fix. Is this true?

Are servicing costs also higher for this car than a comparable German motor?

 

[royoftherovers]

Hybrid Solutions is a member here and well thought of, but his warranty for his repair work whilst good does not seek to be on a par with Lexus.

The GS450 h is reliable and I have not had the need to seek repairs in the 3 plus years I`ve had it.

My Merc whilst reliable has not been as reliable as the fairy books make out and i have the use of a local Indie should the need arise.

Good luck with your project Jamie and I hope that in due course you will find one that is suitable for you.

 

Regards

John

[Shahpor]

Lexus to cheaper servicing for cars that are 5+ years old called Essential Care.

The prices can be found here:

https://www.lexus.co.uk/owners/servicing-and-maintenance/#ServicingYourLexus

The £399 service is a bit steep, but the £199 isn't too bad.  What's funny is that the dealer asks you which service you want, and seeing as the stamp is the same, you could just opt for doing the minor services and take care of the rest yourself, or just leave it.

[HenryHippo]

12 minutes ago, Shahpor said:

Lexus to cheaper servicing for cars that are 5+ years old called Essential Care.

The prices can be found here:

https://www.lexus.co.uk/owners/servicing-and-maintenance/#ServicingYourLexus

The £399 service is a bit steep, but the £199 isn't too bad.  What's funny is that the dealer asks you which service you want, and seeing as the stamp is the same, you could just opt for doing the minor services and take care of the rest yourself, or just leave it.

Is the £199 service the 10k service and the £399 the 20k service?

Meaning that I'd be forking out £300 for every 10k miles effectively?

[Shahpor]

Yep, they are not the cheapest cars to service.  It is currently down, but there is a brochure detailing the difference between the services that you can download on the site.

[hprice1099]

17 minutes ago, HenryHippo said:

Is the £199 service the 10k service and the £399 the 20k service?

Meaning that I'd be forking out £300 for every 10k miles effectively?

Also worth considering you can monthly for this 👍👍