Hybrid System Issue

Martin F · January 21, 2017

3 hours ago, wh05apk said:

I think the issue is that the battery is not much more than a motorcycle sized one, which is all that is required normally, so gets used quite heavily with seat heaters, lights being left on etc.

Didn't realise it would be £250 though, will need to make sure my next one has a long guarantee on it.

You obviously haven't seen the Battery physically as it's actually quite big, which is the case with most batteries on cars with stop-start systems.

NemesisUK · January 21, 2017

The one in the RC is the same size as 'normal' car batteries, certainly much bigger than the Aux Battery in the CLS55..

capese21 · January 21, 2017

4 hours ago, wh05apk said:

I think the issue is that the battery is not much more than a motorcycle sized one

It would have to be a very large motorcycle!! Even a Honda Goldwing has a Battery less than half the size & Ah capacity.

£60 here for a Bosch S4 024.

https://www.tayna.co.uk/S4-024-Bosch-Car-Battery-Type-005L-S4024-P9715.html?utm_source=LexusOwnersClubUK&utm_medium=ForumLinks

The quiescent current is around 15mA so a 55 amp hour Battery should last 3600 hours or 150 days. Dont leave the key fob in or near the car as this will keep the electronics alive.

Ed

capese21 · January 21, 2017

1 hour ago, Martin F said:

You obviously haven't seen the battery physically as it's actually quite big, which is the case with most batteries on cars with stop-start systems.

The Lexus Hybrid system does not use the 12v Battery for stop start that is powered by the main hybrid traction system Battery which will never be flat. The 12v Battery is just to power the electronics before the hybrid system is on. No alternator in the system as power is from the hybrid motor generator.

ISJason · January 21, 2017

That's true

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

200h · January 21, 2017

6 hours ago, wh05apk said:

I think the issue is that the battery is not much more than a motorcycle sized one, which is all that is required normally, so gets used quite heavily with seat heaters, lights being left on etc.

Didn't realise it would be £250 though, will need to make sure my next one has a long guarantee on it.

the Battery is aot bigger than a motorcycle Battery both in physical size and capacity

the Battery is approx 235mm wide x 130mm deep x 220mm high

GSLV6 · January 21, 2017

Eurocarparts also do the batteries. Just enter your reg nr and it'll flag up an appropriate LION Battery for the auxiliary with the correct specs. I did this for my RX450 and they do a 70 AH one delivered for £90 odd (and this is more expensive from Lexus than the IS300 OEM one ).

The other thing that helps is to keep your key in a Faraday cage wallet (sold on amazon for £8 odd) when not in use as it'll help stop some of the Battery drain plus is a good way of raising the odds against theft (it blocks the signal being emitted by the key fob), as the primary method of stealing Lexus keyless entry vehicles is either breaking in for the keys, or using scanners and boosters to amplifiy the code from the key in the house, send to a base staion close by which then boost the signal and opens the car.

olliesgrandad · January 21, 2017

We replaced the Battery last year on our Fiat 500 which has stop start and that was £128!

capese21 · January 21, 2017

5 hours ago, olliesgrandad said:

We replaced the battery last year on our Fiat 500 which has stop start and that was £128!

You paid to much. A Bosch top spec Battery is less than £60 delivered.

olliesgrandad · January 21, 2017

2 hours ago, capese21 said:

You paid to much. A Bosch top spec battery is less than £60 delivered.

The normal non stop start item was around £60.

capese21 · January 22, 2017

3 hours ago, olliesgrandad said:

The normal non stop start item was around £60.

Stop Start are £85 delivered.

alpine · January 23, 2017

On 21/01/2017 at 9:17 AM, 200h said:

the battery number is S46B24L 20HR 49Ah CCA325A

and here is a link http://www.yuasa.co.uk/hj-s46b24r-628.html

absolutely amazed at the cost

That's not the right one, the terminals appear to be the wrong way round, though the data sheet diagram has them the right way. This is the only reference I've found on the internet, from Panasonic Hongkong, which has the correct reference numbers and, most importantly is the right dimensions. Because of the Battery carrier design, wrong height batteries won't fit:. That Yuasa is 227mm, while the Panny is 202mm.

http://www.panasonic.hk/english/products/living/car-battery/caos-hybrid-maintenance-free-car-battery-(jis-for-hybrid-vehicle)/n-s46b24lr-hv-(49ah).aspx

My own Battery, on my IS300H which is used only intermittently, failed after 12 months from new and was replaced under warranty. At the time I bought one of those RAC portable batteries just in case. Yes, the car was covered by the Lexus assistance, but it's still a damn nuisance waiting for the AA man to come. The second one, now 2years old, started showing low volts symptoms this autumn in the first cold spell. Again the volts had dropped. This time I bought one of those CTEC intelligent chargers and the first time I put it on, it spent some time on its first 'desulphation' stage. After that it was OK and now zips through the first part of the programme. The Battery seems to be much better and is holding its volts at 12.5/12.7 or so, even after a few days of non use in the cold. Having said that, I now leave the CTEC plugged in most of the time!

alpine · January 23, 2017

On 21/01/2017 at 9:05 AM, NemesisUK said:

I thought with the hybrid system on all electrical demand was met by the traction battery? The 12 volt battery only supplies the entry system and the initial startup of the control modules.

Having the seat heaters and such on would only drain the 12v battery if the car was on accessory mode?

That's what I thought too. Until I noticed, when checking the Battery that it has the usual very thick 300 amp or so lead from the Battery! They do seem to involve the Battery in some high current starter like process, it looks bigger than would be needed for max 70 or 80 amps or so..

NemesisUK · January 23, 2017

Wouldn't the Battery require such a cable for receiving charge from the traction Battery?

capese21 · January 23, 2017

1 hour ago, alpine said:

That's not the right one, the terminals appear to be the wrong way round,

"For illustration purposes only" same picture for all specs!!

37 minutes ago, alpine said:

They do seem to involve the battery in some starter like process, even though it will driver the motor/generator rather than a conventional starter.

The 12v Battery is charged by the hybrid system so there will be a reasonably thick cable. Not used for starting the engine if it did it would be a much larger capacity.

If sitting in always leave the engine on. It will shut off and only run when required. You risk a flat 12v Battery in acc mode. A message will pop up to warn you.

The GS300H electronics alone run at 15amps!!

alpine · January 23, 2017

28 minutes ago, capese21 said:

"For illustration purposes only" same picture for all specs!!

Yes, I noticed. But unless they've changed the specs on newer ones ( mine was one of the first), the height of the Yuasa is wrong. I checked mine against that Panny spec, and it's definitely only 202mm. And on top of it is the little tray with the tyre pump etc. snugly fitting up to the top of the side compartment. It would appear at present you can only get it from Lexus, and I dread to think what their price would be! Hence why I decided to go for the Ctek charger...

alpine · January 23, 2017

36 minutes ago, capese21 said:

"For illustration purposes only" same picture for all specs!!

The 12v battery is charged by the hybrid system so there will be a reasonably thick cable. Not used for starting the engine if it did it would be a much larger capacity.

If sitting in always leave the engine on. It will shut off and only run when required. You risk a flat 12v battery in acc mode. A message will pop up to warn you.

The GS300H electronics alone run at 15amps!!

It's probably just the cable spec they have in the parts bins! I was amused to note that the negative lead from the Battery to the body, on this negative earth car, is clearly stamped with a + sign. The same lead they've used since the days of positive chassis cars...

tanimbar · January 23, 2017

Alpine,

Do you mean CTEK Battery chargers from http://www.ctek.com/gb/en/chargers/12v ?

Which CTEK model did you choose?

Thanks, Tanimbar

alpine · January 23, 2017

2 hours ago, tanimbar said:

Alpine,

Do you mean CTEK battery chargers from http://www.ctek.com/gb/en/chargers/12v ?

Which CTEK model did you choose?

Thanks, Tanimbar

Yes, the MXS3.8. 3.8Amps is quite enough for a good trickle charge rate. Got it from Demon Tweeks just before they put their prices up! A lot of eBay sellers still seem to have the old price. It comes with a connector with eyelets as well as one with clamps and I attached this to the Battery terminals with a couple of M6 nuts.

NemesisUK · January 23, 2017

My owner's handbook states a slow charge at 5A or less. One must disconnect the earth cable before charging the Battery in situ ...

alpine · January 23, 2017

20 minutes ago, NemesisUK said:

My owner's handbook states a slow charge at 5A or less. One must disconnect the earth cable before charging the battery in situ ...

That's ignorable. Ask the AA! These aren't the old uncontrolled transfomer rectifier chargers. The voltage is closely controlled.

Lexus has approved the Ctek chargers:

http://www.ctek.com/gb/en/page/aboutus/oem

Having got a bit anal about this, I also ended up buying their little traffic light lead, not really for the indicators but because it's got a fuse in the lead, which seems a useful safety thing since I've extended the lead so I can run it from the house to the car.

NemesisUK · January 23, 2017

I have used the CTEK for a number of years on my CLS55. Mercedes sell the CTEK rebadged as their own charger. Perfectly safe to charge the Battery without disconnection. I also had the convenience connector in the boot.

Always best to quote the manufacturer's advice/instruction. The reader can then make up their own mind.

Britprius · January 23, 2017

The reason Lexus state the car Battery should be disconnected before charging is that doing it that way there is no risk of a reverse polarity connection to the car electronics. This can spell disaster to ECU's.

The Battery used is an AGM (absorbed glass mat) Battery. This has no free liquid acid. All the acid is held in the glass mats between the plates, and as such the Battery is less damaged by deep discharge.

The charging voltage is higher than standard lead acid batteries. The Battery states a maximum charge rate of 5 amps rather strange when it can and does get charged by the car charging system at 80 amps or more depending on it's state of charge hence the thick cables to the Battery. This charge rate is typical of Toyota/Lexus hybrid charging systems on which I have done extensive testing.

John

NemesisUK · January 24, 2017

The low charge rate specified may be to take into account not everyone would be using a well regulated charger? The ripple current from a poorly designed charger may well cause issues?

MFT · December 7, 2017

I live in the USA and I'm having the same problem with my 2016 RX450h. Thank you for the hints. The factory rep is coming in on Tuesday, 12 Dec, to have a look. I'll mention to him the solutions you've found. Thank you! Regards, Mike PS--If you'd like to see other problems I've had in 20,000 miles, check either KBB.com or Edmunds.com and look for a review, "Making Lemonade With This Lexus Lemon."

Here is a link: https://www.edmunds.com/lexus/rx-450h/2016/consumer-reviews/pg-1/?sorting=REVERSE_OVERALL_RATINGS