So talk me out of buying an LS460

[Haylands]

Hi all... long time no post...!!!

Had an LS430 10 years ago now and had to sell it due to health issues, broke my back some years ago and a general deterioration in various bits of me meant it wasn't comfortable getting in or out... I'm 6'5" so even the size of the LS was a struggle...

Move forward several years and two of these

Which as well as all these

And one of these

 

Has meant that I am now more mobile than I have been for a long time....

I've been driving people carriers and off road vehicles for the last few years as they were easier to get in but I now fancy a big saloon again and hanker after another LS..

 

The 460's have dropped in price and I could afford the oldest, highest mileage ones going, not fussed on the miles and don't need or want any of the bells and whistles associated with buying from a dealer as I do all my own service/repairs so the cheapest car going is what I am after...

 

So, anyone with a leggy LS460, I would be interested to hear what goes wrong or wears out to use as a bargaining tool....

 

Is there a shortcut with the 460 to this menu...?

LS430 diagnostic menu

 

And does anyone know if there is a workshop manual online or available anywhere else for the 460...?

 

Also any other comments etc would be great..

 

Thanks...

 

 

 

 

[GrahamG]

As you have benefited from so much advanced medical engineering it seems appropriate to now enjoy some top flight automotive engineering. Best of luck to you.

From what I have read on the US forum I would not buy an early LS460 because of costly maintenance but that is just my opinion.

I would not hesitate to go for an '06 LS430.

Sorry if that is not what you want to hear but I trust you will be happy back inside a Lexus.

[Haylands]

Graham, Thanks, what costly maintenance do they need..??

[Tulpen]

I've got an '07 460........apart from a small electronic glitch (which was fixed with a system reset) I've had absolutely no problems at all.

As a matter of interest, if you read the US 430 and 400 forums they would put you off as well.

[Haylands]

Brian, There does seem to be an awful lot of "model loyalty" going on within Lexus, I know the 430 is a great car but I've been there and now fancy something different....

Thanks for your info......

 

[cruisermark]

Hi Pete welcome back - you were a member when i joined the lexus fold 9 years ago and i remember your posts especially the LPG install and gearknob re-leathering one lol!

I also remember your Yaris project!

Im currently on my 4th LS (430)

I havent come across any common problems with the 460 apart from:

1) Failing heated seat relays

2) Failed steering racks

3) Failed shock absorbers

Even these problems are very limited.

My advice is if you are going for a higher mileage one then get an independant inspection done. There is one on AT at the moment which has had all 4 shock absorbers replaced!

The engine and transmission are bullet proof - I am hoping to upgrade one day!

I would say go and buy one for 2 reasons - one - you are great forum contributor and two I need a good through comparison review between the 430 and 460 and i know you are man for the job!

Good Luck!

 

[Haylands]

Thanks for that Mark... yeah, had forgotten about the gear knob... had to go and find it...

Gearknob recovering.

Last project was this... a Range Rover L322 converted to a proper off roader, been in several magazines... It's gone as far as is possible and for that and other reasons I want a slightly more reliable vehicle, not that the Range Rover goes wrong more than once a day you understand... I leave the IID diagnostic tool plugged into the OBD permanently...!!!

Anyway, if you want to waste a couple of hours....

Project Fatty

 

 

[ambermarine]

Haylands

I would browse the Lexus owners US site, there are a lot more owners and contributers there ,I think the shortage of low mileage high price is holding back some of our stalwart 400 and 430 owners plus the reliability promise with their models.

I would not buy a 460 now as my 400 as only got 37k on it and you will be hard pressed to find a 460 with that mileage.

The 400s and 430s were bought by lots of private converts from other marques, less so the 460 they were bought by leasing companies for corporate use, hence high miles.

Good luck and welcome back.

[Haylands]

Thanks Phil, have been reading the USA boards as well, they seem to suffer from different problems than we do, the heat seems to degrade the cars faster in the hot states....

 

Not fussed on high miles and at least company owned cars tend to get serviced well and problems fixed. The mechanics are pretty bullet proof, just wanted some feedback from UK owners to see if there were any trends, shockers seem to be popular and the GS430, GS450h suffer with them as well so maybe they can't handle the weight of the heavier Lexus... 

Just after ammo to shoot the price down even lower......

 

Cheers.

 

 

[Dale_V]

I own both a 1996 LS400 and a 2007 LS460 SE-L, ive had the ls400 for over 6 years and the ls460 since march this year.

I love both cars very much, the ls400 feels oldish now, but reliable, comfortable, solid/hard wearing, you can rely on it and its cheap to run.

The LS460 feels special, it has many many toys, sleek bodywork, awesome interior with super soft leather, it feels like an event every time you drive it, however it feels delicate as if the quality isnt there like it is with the LS400... im always catious around it. ive done less than 5000 miles since owenership and ive now clocked up £15000 in replacement parts covered under the genuine lexus warranty that i took out due to it being eligible. its got 95000 miles, FLSH, in mint condition, its by no means a lemon, I just think Lexus quality isnt what it used to be, so be aware of this upon purchase and have a rainy day fund/deep pockets or get a lexus warranty.

[Haylands]

Blimey, what has cost £15,000 in repairs...???

[Dale_V]

brake actuator, window regulators, steering rack, suspension airbags, abs module etc etc

had ALOT of hassle with the dealership also

[Haylands]

Thanks for the info, does sound like you have a bit of a Friday afternoon car... I'm looking at ones that will not fall into the Lexus (and probably anyone else's) warranty criteria so this type of info is very useful, thanks...

I know what you mean about the differences between the older and newer models, this is the same for the Merc, BMW and Audi, I think the Lexus has to be the best bet though....

 

[Dale_V]

i had a clicking from the brakes, very very quiet clicking, but the ls460 is a quiet car, so you can hear it, if you listen out. it went back and forth with the dealership for around 6 weeks with ME telling them what the problem was (brake actuator).. they tried to fob me off by taking me out in another customers LS460 that had clicking brakes, telling me it was normal.. nope! to me that means that customers car is broke also.. in the end they put a new actuator on and no clicking

I've had my keys thrown back at me in the middle of the showroom because i merely questioned why i should be paying £100 an hour when its under warranty

I've been told in the middle of the showroom the operation of a LS460 window is that it should go up and down, nevermind seal properly with the weather strip

I've been phoned on the day the car was due to have work carried out (after having a technician determine what the issue was a few days previously), by the service manager with an attitude and been given the 20 questions grilling as to whats wrong with my car and why... errr speak to your technician! its not upto the customer to explain what parts are required and why.

If it wasn't for me actually liking the Toyota/ Lexus LS brand, id have sold the lot and gone to BMW/Merc/Jag by now

[jonthetourist]

Just wanted to echo the welcome back. I think I remember you from MB forums too. Was it a CL restore?

Can't help with the 460 but I have an unusual 430 with no sunroof, which means my 6' 5" is surrounded by space in a way no other car has offered me. I share a new knee with you too, but have been lucky enough to not need the hips or spinal pins yet. Good to know it is al working for you.

 

Jon

[GrahamG]

47 minutes ago, Dale_V said:

've had my keys thrown back at me in the middle of the showroom because i merely questioned why i should be paying £100 an hour when its under warranty

Dale, you would do us all a service to say which Lexus main agent behaved like this.

 

 

[Haylands]

1 hour ago, Dale_V said:

i had a clicking from the brakes, very very quiet clicking, but the ls460 is a quiet car, so you can hear it, if you listen out. it went back and forth with the dealership for around 6 weeks with ME telling them what the problem was (brake actuator).. they tried to fob me off by taking me out in another customers LS460 that had clicking brakes, telling me it was normal.. nope! to me that means that customers car is broke also.. in the end they put a new actuator on and no clicking

I've had my keys thrown back at me in the middle of the showroom because i merely questioned why i should be paying £100 an hour when its under warranty

I've been told in the middle of the showroom the operation of a LS460 window is that it should go up and down, nevermind seal properly with the weather strip

I've been phoned on the day the car was due to have work carried out (after having a technician determine what the issue was a few days previously), by the service manager with an attitude and been given the 20 questions grilling as to whats wrong with my car and why... errr speak to your technician! its not upto the customer to explain what parts are required and why.

If it wasn't for me actually liking the Toyota/ Lexus LS brand, id have sold the lot and gone to BMW/Merc/Jag by now

Wow, that's not very good service, I had occasion to use the dealer when I had the 430 and they were nothing but nice... I don't use main dealers for anything these days, I have access to a full workshop so do it all myself...

1 hour ago, jonthetourist said:

Just wanted to echo the welcome back. I think I remember you from MB forums too. Was it a CL restore?

Can't help with the 460 but I have an unusual 430 with no sunroof, which means my 6' 5" is surrounded by space in a way no other car has offered me. I share a new knee with you too, but have been lucky enough to not need the hips or spinal pins yet. Good to know it is al working for you.

 

Jon

 

Yes, I wish more did them without sunroofs, it's more the door aperture that limits me, usually too low, the IS is really bad for it....

It was me with the CL, nice car but again only a bit more reliable than a Range Rover...!!!

Fed up with fixing them, just fancy polishing for a change....

 

[Haylands]

3 hours ago, cruisermark said:

I also remember your Yaris project!

 

My daughter still has the Yaris, paid £300 for it in 2007 and it's still going strong, she gets married in April then she's buying a Merc CLK...!!

[Dale_V]

Quote

Dale, you would do us all a service to say which Lexus main agent behaved like this.

I have a feeling the car will be going back for some more warranty work very very soon (much to their delight im sure), so I dont want to say at this stage.

I know I could go to a different dealership with the warranty, but the one I go to is already far enough away as it is!

[talaipwros]

On 12/28/2016 at 1:47 PM, Haylands said:

Hi all... long time no post...!!!

.....

 

...

 

 

 

How does your right hip feel?

[Haylands]

Very good, same as the left... I queried the out of place cup and was told it didn't make that much difference...!!!

[talaipwros]

it does make a difference in the longevity of the implant, but as long as you are happy, thats OK for now

[Peter67]

Some wise caution from the posters about the early 460's and certainly from my experience.

I have my 2007 since mid 2014. I bought it with just over 100k kilometres and a full Lexus history. I am putting fairly big miles (or Ks!) on it and while its a very enjoyable and comfortable car to drive it is a complicated car and I sense there are certain things not fully ironed out on the 07 models. I do 40,000km+ a year so now the odometer shows 223,000km. i service myself every 20,000km.

I have done a full front end suspension rebuild in January 2016 which was straightforward enough. I reused the front air struts but these will need replacing this year as they are getting "hard". I replaced a rear air strut also in January 2016 and this was very easy indeed. I search around widely for parts because the original cost of lexus parts seems extraordinary. I bought the air strut from Amayama.com and its OEM and comparatively good value. I will buy the 2 x front struts from them this year.

I had an engine problem with an intermittent loss of engine power which was very hard to get to the bottom of. I was stumped as no engine codes showing and it looked like a classic MAF or O2 sensor issue. I have a very good tech who took the car for a few days and he eventually diagnosed and fixed with great difficulty a cracked pipe in the bank 1 EGR valve. This sorted the issue however both he and I feel the transmission is a concern as its not always changing smoothly and can waver a bit between 3rd and 4th with some vibration. Apparently the AA8E are known to give some trouble. Worst case i will need to swap it out for a second hand unit. Not what I wanted to hear as that's a €3k bill. I will do an oil and filter change to see if that improves matters but I am not hopeful.

I have also replaced a brake actuator, plenty of front discs, tyres etc the usual consumables.  The biggest issue is the failure of anyone of 40+ computer modules which will result in expensive hard to source parts being needed ad which may need lexus to install as many of these modules are programmed and not just plug and play. You will need deep pockets for sure but if you are not doing very big miles then should be not too bad. I think the mileage I have been doing has LED to my issues with wearing suspension and maybe the gearbox also. Good luck.

Peter

[Haylands]

Thanks for taking the time to type all that, really does seem like they enjoy eating suspension parts... any one I get will have done well in excess of the miles on yours so hopefully some of it will be done already...

I have been doing around 15,000 miles a year so it won't be having an easy life, I don't mind fixing them, just wondered what I was in for. There are various places in the UK who can rebuild your own ECU's so saving money and reprogramming problems...

 

[Peter67]

There seem to be at least a couple of failure modes for the air suspension struts: air bag leaking air / fluid or the assembly goes hard and provides a rock hard suspension. Saying that they are very easy and quick to replace - more so than a coil assembly. And as I said you can get OEM parts online so if they last 100k or so then maybe not so bad. 

Peter