Ls400 - why shouldn't I buy one?

[cornershop]

Hello all

First time poster, and considering a ls400 in the not too distant future.

Thanks to this excellent site, I see there are a number of reasons to go ahead and buy one, however wondering if any reasons exist for me not to?

It will be a part time car, driven largely on trips circa 150 miles each way.

One thing that really puts me off some brands is parts availability and looking to understand what the current situation is with the ls400?  Also, Is there an aftermarket presence or are all parts mainly Main Dealer only?

many thanks in advance

Shirish

[Colin M]

Hi Shirish,

Welcome to the forum. As regards your questions, I think parts availability is not too bad. I have not had any trouble getting parts so far. eBay is a good source for secondhand parts and there are usually a few cars on eBay which are being broken. There are also aftermarket parts available e.g Blueprint. You can also get genuine Lexus parts from the United States (e.g from Rock Auto) or from Amayama in Japan for a cheaper price than you can get them from Lexus dealers in the UK. It can be quite a bit cheaper even with postage and customs duty!

Don't let parts availability put you off. Parts are not usually cheap and some can be expensive (e.g. upper front suspension arms) but, on the plus side, these cars are very reliable and rarely go wrong. These are great cars and I do not think you will regret it if you buy one.

Hope this helps.

[cornershop]

Reassuring Colin, many thanks - I would most likely stick with genuine parts so glad to hear parts are still available; I would only delve into aftermarket if necessary.

I expect to only cover 2-3k miles a year, so guessing a ~20 year old Lexus should be fine with this. In fact I see via the 'check mot history site', many ls400s are covering 2-3x this without issue, another reason to pursue one.

I'm planning on viewing these 2 cars in the next week (if still available!):

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201612040338735?sort=sponsored&advertising-location=at_cars&model=LS 400&make=LEXUS&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly New&onesearchad=New&page=1

https://www.gumtree.com/p/lexus/lexus-ls-400-low-mileage-with-full-history-px-taken/1204655813

The mica green one reads well however I see its price has pretty much halved between October (on car and classic)  and Dec and wondering why 

The silver one has been diy maintained, with no invoice/stamp for a cambelt change although I'm told a receipt for materials does exist.

[steve2006]

Hello Shirish and welcome to the LOC.

I would take a look at both of them,give them a test drive and then compare the two.

Unusually both seem to have refurbished alloy wheels as they tend to corrode badly but check the tyres on both cars for make and quality and whether they are the same type on each axle.

If you have another daily car you should also be able to insure the Lexus on a classic policy with limited mileage with agreed value for less than standard insurance rates.

All parts for the later LS400 are still available, the exhaust is stainless steel apart from the front Y section which can leak so have a listen for blowing in this area, also make sure the auto headlight levelling works as the rear connecting rod tends to break but cheap to make a replacement.

Also check the steering column moves correctly both in and out and up and down as the control motors fail and are expensive to replace.

Press every button,move the seats to ensure all the functions operate,try the CD player, check the aerial goes up and down when the ignition is turned on and off,check under the boot carpet for water and check the AC blows cold.

[cornershop]

Very useful Steve, many thanks.

[Malc]

They both look good to view and try out.  Have you driven one before ?

The silver one especially with £3000 recently spent ....  was the work done by Lexus ?

I'd certainly view them both and take a pot of cash with you to buy one ( if you can't have them both that is .......  hehehehehe )

Once you're smitten you'll never want another car. Why not use it as your main car ?  

Malc

[cruisermark]

Both look good cars - the green one looks familiar but cannot say where i saw it - the MOT histry brings upa lot of advisories - the silver one looks tempting - even if you wanted to re-do the cambelt - a lexus dealer will charge £295 to do the belt only - you will obviously get a better feel once you meet the seller.

These are both Mark 4 cars  - here are some things to look out for:

Make sure it has a full or at least a good service history which includes the cambelt change.

On driving the ride should be quite smooth comfortable with no noises or creaks from the suspension. Gearbox changes should not be noticeable

Upon inserting key the steering should tilt and retract - test and make sure the mechanism works

When starting from cold the starter should engage and start the engine immediately - if there is clicking sound then be prepared to have the starter or starter contacts replaced - the is a big job - takes about 7 hours therefore costs a lot and finding a competent mechanic who has the knowledge to properly dismantle and reassemble everything may not be as easy as you think.

Braking should be quite and smooth - if you get a groaning noise when coming to stop that’s a sign of cheap aftermarket brake pads - they will need replacing.

Check colour of gearbox oil it should be red with no smell of burning.

Check all electrics work

Check the temperature display backlight works - these fail and require a lot of dismantling to replace.

Check the bonnet struts hold the bonnet

Check there is no water or dampness in the spare wheel well - if yes then boot seal needs replacing or sealing

Check the car has the correct Toyota red coolant

Ask if the cabin filter has ever been changed - these are often over looked.

Check toolkit is present

Check for exhaust blow - the Y pipe is prone to leaking

Make sure there are no warning lights lit in the dash

Ideally you want 2 remote and one grey key

Check the car has a matching set of tyres and wether they are branded or not - this should give an indication wether the car has been pampered or neglected

Check the headlamp levelling mechanism still works - these often fail

Before driving off make sure you have the say nav code and locking wheel nut key.

Hope this helps

 

[Scribe]

Hi Shirish.  My LS will be 19 in a week's time but still looks and runs great.  I do 2-3,000 miles a year (the car is now up to 156,000) and insure it on a classic car policy (no NCB) which is cheaper than any 'normal' policy I could find.  It's my long-distance car - superb on long runs, and quite economical too - but it needs to be used fortnightly or weekly (at this time of year) to keep the Battery charged.  My biggest expenses have been a cambelt plus water pump and pulleys, and also the starter motor contacts.  These wear out and, although very cheap to buy, require the dismantling of half the engine - so not a cheap job.  There's a bit of play in my front suspension but it's gone through six MOTs with that.  I'd recommend finding a good local indie mechanic, unless you intend to maintain the car yourself.

If I were looking for one, the silver one would be first on my list.  These are now very old cars, so you must expect some things to be not perfect, but maintenance is the most important thing.

[ambermarine]

Hi Shirish

Being one of the older members of the LS400 forum and a 400 owner since 96 I have had quite a bit of experience of these cars having owned a Mark 1 for 16 years  and now a Mark 4 for 4 years ,as one member as said you get smitten when you own one because there is simply nothing better as a luxury vehicle in its sector .

Reliability will stop any worries on parts replacement and the parts that need replacing (consumables) are going to be rare with the mileage you intend to do.

Follow Cruisermark' s excellent advice and your intuition and you will end up with a dream come true

[cornershop]

Thanks all for the feedback and the warm welcome, much appreciated 

To add some context, since May this year, I've owned a 1989 Mercedes 560 sec;  I was hoping this would prove usable as a part time family car however space is just too constrained in the cabin with my 2 yr old in her forward facing seat, resulting in very little space for the Mrs in the front passenger seat.  Still hoping I can make it work somehow!  

Ive also just sold an excellent 2001 Audi S8 D2, mainly as I got a good price for it and although It was a very capable car and ticked all the boxes, I was getting too precious about it, especially with the aluminium bodywork, dents are easily picked up so much to my Mrs despair I started using it selectively which went against the very 'use case' I bought it for.  

Furthermore, I've come to realise the significant performance the S8 offered was no longer of much relevance, especially with my 2yr old onboard, so another reason to sell whilst still in excellent condition.

The Lexus, assuming I go ahead and buy one, will be less considered in terms of when it will be used, however as with all cars I do own or have owned, they are superbly well maintained and generally on a no expense spared basis.

Ive not driven one yet, however have always admired the 400 from afar, and I'm looking forward to a more sedate driving experience vs the S8 which with relatively low gearing and super sharp throttle response, was always tugging at the leash.

Sorry for the long post, just wanted to add the rationale behind looking more closely at the very cars you love.

[Colin M]

Some excellent advice from the guys posting above and I hope the cars are good if you go to have a look at them. Good luck!

[Scribe]

Shirish, I've never driven an Audi but I imagine the Lexus will feel soft and wafty in comparison.  There's not much steering feel, for example.  It's not a sporty car - sedate is about the right word, except when you put your foot down hard!

[cornershop]

Well the SEC is a bit of a boat too so that doesn't put me off so much!  Since the daughter came along 2.5 yrs ago, I've changed my driving style so less emphasis required on sporty characteristics.  Plus the Mrs said she'll miss the S8 but only for its refinement. 

[The-Acre]

18 minutes ago, cornershop said:

Well the SEC is a bit of a boat too so that doesn't put me off so much!  Since the daughter came along 2.5 yrs ago, I've changed my driving style so less emphasis required on sporty characteristics.  Plus the Mrs said she'll miss the S8 but only for its refinement. 

The Audi's refinement will soon be forgotten if you buy an LS, they are surely the most refined cars ever built, driving one will immediately confirm it!  Be warned though, once you've owned one anything else will be like the second pressing of the grape!

[cornershop]

Thanks - my main problem is impatience, ie not being able to hold out for a better car and going with one 'that will do', especially at the relatively low monies they currently go for. If anyone is contemplating selling their well maintained Mk4, please do let me know.

[Scribe]

There never were many for sale, and now it's harder than ever to find more than one to choose from.  Be prepared to travel to look for a decent one!

[cornershop]

Have arranged to view the silver car on Autotrader tomorrow morning.

[DAN@ADRIAN FLUX]

Hi,

If you need any help with insurance at all when you have a car in mind then please feel free to drop me a line.

Regards,

Dan.

[cornershop]

So, back from viewing the Silver car in Twickenham: http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201612040338735?sort=sponsored&advertising-location=at_cars&model=LS 400&make=LEXUS&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly New&onesearchad=New&page=1&utm_source=LexusOwnersClubUK&utm_medium=ForumLinks?polaAffiliate=isis&utm_source=RoEye&utm_medium=Affiliate&utm_campaign=HELP&utm_content=Skimbit%2C+Ltd.&utm_term=Performance

The car was pretty grubby, so not easy to see paint/panel mismatches, but it looked even to me.  It appeared to me the pics in the ad were from when the current owner purchased it himself 6m ago, as the scratch on the OSR rear quarter is now showing signs of rust developing.

Good points:

Car drove really well, and actually surprised me in terms of performance and handling - i was expecting a boat, but wasn't the case.

Interior was in excellent condition, everything works including steering column tilt and retract, rear heated seats, seat movement controls, air con (climate?), temp display strip

Stamped history to 110k miles (2012) - last but one owner serviced it himself but no corresponding stamps or invoices for oil filters etc which would have been nice to see.

Boot was dry, no dampness visible or smelt.

Gearbox oil was dark red - no signs of being burnt, but was relatively clear - shifts were seamless, however, up and down the gears.

Started fine from being left overnight and on hot start - no 'click' suggesting imminent starter issue

Good Avon Tyres on good 17" 430 wheels

 

Bad:

Only 2 invoices and didn't total £3k from what I saw, 2k tops - covering parts from Lexus Edgware Road in 2014 for both front upper control arms (£820!), front discs/pads, rear subframe assembly (i think) at £300 and some other items

No invoice covering cambelt parts although the seller was adamant the PO did this when he bought the car in 2014 (nothing in Service book either indicating a cambelt change)

Scratch on OSR quarter has turned started to rust - unsure if a localized repair could be applied here as its on the vertical edge, rather than spraying the whole quarter and blending to door ?

5p sized area with paint missing on central area of OSR door 

Exhaust blowing - not a huge amount but won't get any better

Front discs had a ~1-2mm lip on them but were solid and no excessive play or sponginess.

Only 2 keys (one needing battery) - what is the 3rd for?

 

[cornershop]

Think i need to view the Mica Green car, although not sure the cream interior would be my first choice (although it does work well with Green)

I did find the boot a bit on the small side, especially after the S8 which was cavernous - i believe the 430's are similar to the S8/A8 in that respect, whereby the boot area pretty much touches the rear seats.   The 400s boot is big enough however.

I did however enjoy the drive of the Silver one, which makes me pretty certain a Mk4 would suit me nicely, so keen to test a couple more examples.  

I need to be clear in my mind whether I want a better starting point than the Silver one in terms of bodywork, or whether it suits my needs better to have a more usable car (with more defects) that i'm not worried about using, or where i park, etc etc

[Scribe]

I think the green one has the same colour combo as mine.  It wasn't my first choice but I figured that condition/maintenance was more important.  Besides, it has grown on me, and it seems to suit the character of the car well: sedate, dignified, discreet.

Yes, the boot is surprisingly small for such a big car.  The 430's is bigger.

Re the silver one: no proof of cambelt change would worry me because it's an expensive job if it needs doing (along with water pump, pulleys etc.)  Where's the exhaust blowing? That might not be a big job to fix.

The cars were supplied with (I think) two remote keys and one valet key (no remote).

The silver one appears to have the DHP handling pack - bigger wheels with low-profile tyres and slightly lower suspension - which may or may not make it handle better than the original set-up.  It's what you're used to, I suppose.

If it were me, I think I'd hold out for a better one, or at least one with more recent history.  The problem is that these are now old, cheap cars which some owners don't think are worth spending much on.  Hence the scratch wasn't repaired, even cheaply.  And I wouldn't sell a car without washing it!

Re your last point: I bought mine for less than I was willing to pay for one because I figured it wouldn't matter so much if it got the occasional mark or scratch.  But as time has gone on, it's become clear how difficult it would be to replace, and I'm now nervous about leaving it in supermarket car parks!  These cars get under your skin, in a way...

[Malc]

.............  it's disappointing when sellers lie about condition and post up previous owners pictures !

That scratch looks a bugger to satisfactorily repair. The cambelt change even if not itemised on the service record ( which is very odd ) should have an appropriate sticker ( from Lexus ) on the top of the engine area  .. along with the first cambelt change sticker too  ...  if it's actually ever been done !

The front two UCAs from Lexus at £820 is probably correct but it's unimaginable that they needed doing at such a low mileage tbh. .  and what's a new rear subframe assembly all about for heavens sake ?

Summat doesn't seem right to me  ......... i would search a little more and maybe the green one will be stacks better than the silver one ..... don't be afraid of stellar mileage if it's been well looked after .........  and maybe the silver one just hasn't been, even for the past 6 months ......  it's beginning to tell a sad story.

Good luck

Malc

[Scribe]

At least the green one has paperwork with it, including cam belt history.  So there'll be more information to base a decision on, one way or the other.  And if it's a basically sound car, the price is reasonable.

Malc is right: a car may not be mint but you can tell whether it has been routinely maintained, whereas some shows signs of having been neglected.

[cornershop]

yes, think you're both right - i don't think its been maintained at all in the last 6m judging by the colour of the oil.

A good baseline to start with though, gives me something to work against.

Scribe - the silver one has 430 wheels, not the usual DHP wheels AFAIK, so doubting whether it is DHP optioned.  Do Lexus/Lexi have option codes listed anywhere that detail the full spec ?

Have arranged to view the green one on Sunday morning.  I'm hoping the bodywork is as described ("A1" according to the vendor), i can then look at a reasonable programme of improvement on the mechanicals if need be.

[Bluesman]

3 hours ago, Scribe said:

At least the green one has paperwork with it, including cam belt history.  So there'll be more information to base a decision on, one way or the other.  And if it's a basically sound car, the price is reasonable.

Malc is right: a car may not be mint but you can tell whether it has been routinely maintained, whereas some shows signs of having been neglected.

When I bought mine 7 years ago green was the last colour I would have had on my list but I had been looking around for many months travelling hundreds of miles looking at one dog after another then along comes the Green one on the Internet somewhere and because of its condition and history the colour went to the back of the list of importance and I bought her and am I glad I did. The colour has really grown on me together with the fawn interior she looks a million dollars especially after she has been down the handwashers. Good hunting.