Near death experience with LPG

[thatfatbloke]

Just got back from filling up with LPG. The tank was empty,so I filled it 'til cut off as usual. As I released the nozzle from the tank all hell broke loose. LPG shot out my filler for about five seconds under great pressure. It went all over my trousers and my left hand and was freezing cold. Only now,two hours after the event, have I got feeling back to my hand. Obviously some sort of safety pressure release had kicked in and spat it back out the tank. It was only empty as the wife had used my car recently and didn't tell me it was getting low (she refuses to fill up with LPG anyway). I'll have it looked at as soon as possible. Has anyone else experienced this?. Could it be that the tank was empty?. I normally get it down to one green light and then top it up.

[sorcerer]

I always try to fill up before it gets completely empty - after all, the idea is to be running on lovely, cheap gas and not expensive petrol, so I rarely let it get completely empty. However, it has happened a few times when there's not been an LPG filling station around so the tank has completely emptied and the system has switched back to using petrol, but no, just filling from empty has never resulted in a scenario like you describe above.

I'd say that there's definitely something wrong there. The filler cut-off should have operated but sounds like it didn't, but it also sounds like the safety valve isn't working either because I think it's supposed to vent as gas, not liquid - and it certainly wouldn't come out of the filler point anyway. Get it to a gas specialist ASAP John and let us know how you get on.

[dendonc]

It does sound like something is wrong, I have run out a couple of times but filled again as normal, who did the conversion? profess garantees their parts for life providing you do the services

.

[Jake430]

This is normal, it's the gas between the nozzle and the filler of the tank. Don't forget the gas is in liquid form. You will find that not all gas pumps cut out at the correct pressure. I had one garage get 70 l of gas in a 70 l tank that was not empty, you should have seen the blast of liquid when he released the trigger.

[sorcerer]

40 minutes ago, Jake430 said:

This is normal, it's the gas between the nozzle and the filler of the tank.

No way on earth is that normal!

When the lever is released after filling, the small amount of liquid propane between the nozzle and the tank filler is no longer under pressure and is released as a quick PSSST of gaseous propane - certainly not a 5-second squirt of liquid that would get on his trousers.

 

[dutchie01]

i had various LPG cars before but never experienced what you are describing. it would set off all alarmbells with me sounds very dangerous. Best to bring it to a specialist before using the car again..

[Bluesman]

Never in 16/17 years have I ever had that or heard of it. Just need to get it sorted.

 

[thatfatbloke]

The LPG cost 58.9 per litre and the bill for filling from empty was £29.01. If the 76 litre tank really was empty,then the cost would have been £44.76. The gauge had been going from red (running on petrol) to one green light (running on LPG) for a couple of days,but was definitely on red immediately before I filled up. I think maybe my gauge is inaccurate and there was more LPG in there than it was telling me. However that still doesn't explain the escape of whatever it was (gas or liquid,it was bloody cold and formed a temporary 'frost' on me hand and strides!) as the pump should have known to cut out when full. Can't seem to contact a local LPG service garage at the moment as they never answer the phone and don't get back to me.

[thatfatbloke]

Just been reading through the LPG manual for the car. It's a Prins system and was installed in 2008, and serviced in 2011 when two filters were replaced. Apparently it will only ever fill to 80% of tank capacity. Secondly there are two warning systems in place. If the light flashes it's safe to continue (but may not drive quite right) but if you get a flashing light and a buzzer then it's not. I haven't had either of these warnings.Also just phoned the garage,and there have been no other reported problems.

[sorcerer]

I never take any notice of the indicator lights as they are notoriously inaccurate. Best to fill it, set the trip odometer to zero, then see how many miles you get out of that tankful (only refill when empty) and use that as your "time to fill up again" indicator. For example, if you get 300 miles out of that tankful, every time you fill up, reset your trip odometer and when you get to, say, 240 miles, start looking for a filling station - it's much better than relying on the red and green lights.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[cleverdick]

I would recommend phoning Chris or Ian at Westfield Motors, Rayleigh.  It's a Toyota/Lexus independent that's been there for a good many years, and they used to sell LPG.  They should be able to advise as to whether it's a fault with your car, or the station pump. 

The freezing effect of vaporizing liquid gas is to be expected, which of course is the principle behind refrigeration.  Hopefully you got away with it, but do get yourself checked out if you have any lasting adverse effects.

[thatfatbloke]

Managed to get in touch with someone finally. Although not local (I'm in Eastbourne,he's in Ashford Kent) he seems to know what he's talking about. It's probably a valve that's got a bit of crud in and released the gas between nozzle and tank. Taking pictures to send to him tomorrow so he can identify it more accurately. Safe to drive (thankfully) just not going to refill with LPG 'til fixed.

[Tinonline]

Glad you are ok.

That should not have happened, a slight release on separation like removing an air hose for example is fine.

if that happened to my diving gear I'd be looking at a faulty valve or more likely a sticking valve. Sticking from contamination or age related degradation.

im sure you will be getting a pro to look at that.

[Jake430]

I have to use an adopter which addes to the amount of gas which must be released , but it will always blow away from the handle. Just a thought, by any chance before you released the  nozzle did the locking handle release too slowly 

[Colin M]

Glad to hear you are ok, John. I have never experienced anything like this when filling up with LPG. I now always put a pair of surgical/vinyl gloves on when filling up to avoid the risk of a cold burn from escaping LPG when releasing the trigger (after getting my hand too close once when I did not have any gloves on).

Regarding the gauge, when mine goes to red there is still LPG in the tank and this is just an indication that LPG is getting low - there is probably still 30+ miles left in the tank. When I first had the car I thought when the gauge went to red that this meant the LPG was about to run out but this is not the case. Then again, mine has an orange light when it is running on petrol, so it may well be a different type of gauge to yours. The system is different, as mine is an Emer system.

I hope you manage to get the problem sorted.

 

[thatfatbloke]

Just spoken to an LPG installer in Hampshire who assures me that it's still safe to drive,but preferably don't fill it up again until he's replaced the valve and serviced the system. Supposed to be serviced annually or 12000/15000 miles. The last invoice I have is from 2011 @108000 miles - it's now on 157000. Whoops!.

[runsgrateasanut]

17 hours ago, Colin M said:

. The system is different, as mine is an Emer system.

 

 

Is your Car running a single point system Colin?

Changing the valve in a tank is best left to the pro's who have the equipment to extract the residue LPG.  I did change the shut off valve in a Mercedes when the tank was very low. Used the release valve to gently allow the gas to escape over a period of some hours at an out of the way place.  Went back and gingerely undid the screws to replace. 

I'd never bother with Vaporiser replacement parts kits, just buy a new same model Vaporiser and its an easy change. Got a new Bigas M84 surplus to requirements.  Every 20k miles.

[Colin M]

The Certificate that came with the car describes it as having electronic sequential injection, so I think that probably means it is a multipoint rather than a single point injection system.

[sorcerer]

40 minutes ago, runsgrateasanut said:

I'd never bother with Vaporiser replacement parts kits, just buy a new same model Vaporiser and its an easy change. Got a new Bigas M84 surplus to requirements.  Every 20k miles.

Why would you change the vapouriser every 20k miles? I have my gas installation serviced every 12 months/12,000 miles without fail but they've never said I needed a new vapouriser, even though my last car did over 100k on gas (that was an OMVL Dream XXIn system).

[mikeyv]

Hi John, was it polegate services?, I use the BP at golden cross, which gives you a card that adds 1p a litre off every time you use it, up to a max of 10p a litre, at which point you start again.

I often fill an empty tank, without the drama you experienced, though a friend of mine once got badly burnt at a Morrisons pump, to the extent that she was off work for months(policewoman), and she got compo from Morrisons.

I'd be interested to hear of any lpg specialists you find locally, I've not come across any so far.

[runsgrateasanut]

4 hours ago, sorcerer said:

Why would you change the vapouriser every 20k miles? I have my gas installation serviced every 12 months/12,000 miles without fail but they've never said I needed a new vapouriser, even though my last car did over 100k on gas (that was an OMVL Dream XXIn system).

Corrosion on/in the vaporiser and the time/cost of someone else dismantling / cleaning out the heavy ends and replacing diaphrams is probably a higher cost than replacing the Vaporiser. ( assuming they do the job which you can't tell as its internal)    A diaphram kit is about £28. The Labour cost ?  What did the last overhall cost you John?

Its not difficult to replace the unit as long as its the same spec. 

A Vaporiser has an LPG inlet pipe, outlet pipe and two Water hoses. They only have to Clamp the water hoses, slow release of the gas pipe from the Solenoid (gas and engine off obviously)   Keep track of the exact screw positions on the old one so that they are copied on the new.  A bit of fine tuning may be needed?. There is a diagnostic plug for a computer read out

Personally  I'd insist on a replacement Vaporiser rather than a kit change. Check out the price.  You then know its been done. I think I deleted my heavy ends photo's which might have been of interest..  I'll have a look.

[sorcerer]

Ah, right. I've never suffered a build-up of heavy ends or corrosion of/in a vapouriser.

Maybe it's the way it's been installed, maybe it's the differences in systems, maybe it's differences in the fuel itself (I usually fill at my local Calor Centre) or maybe it's something else entirely, I don't know, but a couple of in-line filter changes every year and a test on the computer were all that were ever required on my old Nissan with the OMVL system. We only got the RX300 converted at the end of July so it's too early to tell yet how this system will perform in that respect.

[thatfatbloke]

10 hours ago, mikeyv said:

Hi John, was it polegate services?, I use the BP at golden cross, which gives you a card that adds 1p a litre off every time you use it, up to a max of 10p a litre, at which point you start again.

I often fill an empty tank, without the drama you experienced, though a friend of mine once got badly burnt at a Morrisons pump, to the extent that she was off work for months(policewoman), and she got compo from Morrisons.

I'd be interested to hear of any lpg specialists you find locally, I've not come across any so far.

Hi Michael. Yes it was at Cophall services,Polegate. Pump 10,which has only recently had the hose replaced after someone drove off with the nozzle still in the tank and ripped it all out!. I did use the BP at Golden Cross about two months ago when Cophall was experiencing a power cut. A slightly different system there,but I soon sussed it out. 

I've not been able to find a local LPG service centre either. The one at The Broyle at Ringmer seems to be no more as both phone numbers are dead. The guy I spoke to yesterday and where I'll probably be taking her for repair and service is: New Farm Motor Services,Alresford,Hampshire SO24 9QE. Phone 01962 732338. It looks as if their website has been hacked though,as all I get is what appears to be a Chinese/Japanese gambling page when clicking on the link. 

This link http://www.drivelpg.co.uk/approved-installers/find-an-approved-installer/ will get you there though. It's going to be such a hardship to waft all the way to Hampshire though!.

[thatfatbloke]

By the way I've seen a blue 'N' plate LS cruising around Eastbourne recently. Anyone here?.

[mikeyv]

3 hours ago, thatfatbloke said:

Hi Michael. Yes it was at Cophall services,Polegate. Pump 10,which has only recently had the hose replaced after someone drove off with the nozzle still in the tank and ripped it all out!. I did use the BP at Golden Cross about two months ago when Cophall was experiencing a power cut. A slightly different system there,but I soon sussed it out. 

I've not been able to find a local LPG service centre either. The one at The Broyle at Ringmer seems to be no more as both phone numbers are dead. The guy I spoke to yesterday and where I'll probably be taking her for repair and service is: New Farm Motor Services,Alresford,Hampshire SO24 9QE. Phone 01962 732338. It looks as if their website has been hacked though,as all I get is what appears to be a Chinese/Japanese gambling page when clicking on the link. 

This link http://www.drivelpg.co.uk/approved-installers/find-an-approved-installer/ will get you there though. It's going to be such a hardship to waft all the way to Hampshire though!.

Think we caught a glimpse of the N reg yesterday.

Good luck in Hampshire!