Potential new RX400H ower

actionslax · December 14, 2016

Hello there,

I've been reading and looking through all the old posts during past few months to understand what these cars are all about. I'm so close to buying - SE/SEL 2006-2008 ~ £7.5-£9k. There's quite a few around, some sound and others with an unusual history. The big thing I'm worried about due to the age range I'm looking at is potentially dropping regular money into replacing parts as the original parts come to the end of their life.

Am I right?

Would really like to find out from any 2006-2008 owners what your thoughts are. Give me some confidence that I'll not need to budget ££££'s (which I don't have) but maybe a few £££ every year.

Appreciate your comments/advice.

Thanks.

oldgreybeard · December 14, 2016

Hi Stuart

Only help I can offer is to give you a run down of my 400h ownership since August this year.

Like you spent time reading up and tried to learn good plus bad points. Having owned many Toyotas since the 80`s have always felt reliability to be good so on the same note expected Lexus to be similar. Was changing from Volvo to lexus as I needed higher/bigger car to get in/out as disabled.

Decided to buy from a dealer so that I had some chance of comeback if problems occurred (not afraid of court process!) but wanted to find one that sold plenty of these cars not just the odd one. Main dealer prices were too high as my budget seemed to put me outside of the age range sold as used cars (generally).

My budget was £8-9 k max and that found me a one owner full lexus history grey 400h with full mot etc.

My next choice was should I or shouldn't I buy a lexus warranty available for cars less than 10 years old @£995 for two years cover.

Visited my nearest dealer and met service manager and discussed at great length (must have driven them nuts!) every variation of claim I could think of.

Only issue was that I had to have car serviced at interval by lexus to maintain warranty and my next service due was 100K despite mileage of only 80K driven. That was a big one and not cheap but it was suggested that I could have the "essential service" carried out to maintain warranty (lower service for older cars).

In the end I said yes and went for the warranty, and here comes the punchline:

November car goes in for service and then the phone starts to ring. Long story short needed new (rear)brake callipers shoes and discs plus rear suspension plus attention to electric door mirrors. The cost for me to pay £600 for service ,brakes consumables. Warranty paid for in excess of £1300 and I still have 20 months cover left.

So I feel it makes not a lot of difference where you buy from if not dealer, you should allow for emergency spending/repairs and if possible I would recommend the warranty. I think I am right in saying car needs to be less than 10 years old and less than 100k miles. My car was 4months short of the 10 year mark so just scraped in.

I have since replaced front pair of tyres as I don't like low tread especially this time of year and paid wheel allignment that also turned out to be wrong.

So do I like the car? Absolutely yes.Was I glad I bought the warranty? oh yes, for once I got it right.

My mileage is low nowadays 5K pa max and I can sit in great comfort in a warm safe car that should hopefully last a long time with usual servicing etc.

I hope that helps a little, only one persons story of one car so no guarantee. For me I am happy to be a lexus owner, local dealer know what to expect from me (a lot) and so far have obliged and when warranty runs out my own independent garage will look after 90% of work.

Nearly forgot for about £60 a dealer will carry out hybrid health check on the car system and that gives a year warranty on hybrid system

Best of luck, hope you find what you are looking for

steve2006 · December 15, 2016

Hello Stuart and welcome to the LOC.

I don't own an RX400h so cannot comment specifically but bear in mind you have very little comeback if you buy privately as opposed to a dealer.

Look for a full (preferably Lexus) service history, I think Lexus also offer a condition report service which may be a good idea pre purchase if buying privately or have an independent inspection carried out by the RAC/AA.

You can also check the MOT history online which is useful is seeing any past failures or advisories or mileage discrepancies with just the make and registration number.

Be aware of any for sale that have lived at or near the coast, we presently have one member with a rotted out rear subframe due to this reason.

Good luck in your search.

DanD · December 15, 2016

Welcome to the forum.

I'll be very blunt: a premium car from a premium brand will - eventually - attract premium bills. Even a car as reliable as the RX is not immune to wear and tear. It is a complex car, and you are talking about a 10 year old car that may or may not have been looked after by multiple owners. You may be lucky and find a gem... yet again... you may buy a dud! I certainly would shy away from anything without a decent service history. You may find that buying from a dealer is the most cost effective option in the long run, but at least you will get a solid warranty for the first year.

Checking a few thread will give you some idea of costs to be prepared for:

- A mirror replacement can cost as much as £450 from a main dealer

- A reconditioned audio unit (they are sealed units and include the 6xCD changer) costs around £1500 to replace

Whatever you decide to do, good luck.

This is one of the most friendly forums you'll ever come across, with loads of people always willing to give good advice. Just ask.

Assa1974 · December 15, 2016

Hi Stuart,

I don't think there's any right or wrong answer here. I bought my 400H in March and spent more time and effort looking for the 'perfect' car than I've ever done on a car before. I was looking in the same price and age range and TBH was dissappointed at the quality of the cars available. In particular the state of interiors was a let down. I do a reasonable mileage (done 15k miles since getting it) so the exterior is never going to be perfect but the interior is something I can look after and so wanted a good standard to start with. I started looking for SE-L models with the DVD screen but quickly realised that often these were family cars that usually carried kids around in the back and showed the signs of that. Anyway, to cut a long story short I had given up when I got an alert of a new car at a car supermarket in Coventry. It turned out to be perfect - 80K miles, 2007 plate with a perfect interior, asking price £7,500. Most importantly though it had full LSH and all of the paperwork including the hybrid checks and had 4 new tyres fitted only 2 months before (basically £750 for free). Based on my experience up to then that was a good £1k or more under the market price. Best I could tell they'd picked it up cheap at auction and being a car supermarket they use a standard pricing model to value their cars to ensure high turnover so just added their standard profit margin. I drove away with what so far has been a faultless car which IMO (and the opinion of may people who've been in it) looks and feels like a luxury car worth two or three times as much. I am using a local garage for servicing as I have no intention of changing it before it effectively depreciates to zero so there's no monetary advantage using Lexus. I looked at the warranty options but decided that given the reliability of these things it was a 'safe' bet not to worry. In my experience a car that's done 80K miles and is nearly 10 years old and has never needed a thing doing isn't going to suddenly start to be unreliable.

If you want piece of mind then go through a dealer and get the warrantly but the chances are you are going to pay a fairly big premium both on the purchase and maintenance. I totally understand and would most likely go that route if I were going for a younger/more expensive car but IMO you can safely buy 'cheaper' from a non Lexus dealer or private sale if you are careful about your choice i.e. full service history, complete paperwork, obvious signs of TLC. Don't get sucked in by the idea of the car and settle for something that feels wrong. I deperately wanted my 400H and put in days of searching and viewing cars over two months but had to force myself to walk away from at least a dozen examples because they just weren't quite right.

Good luck.

ISJason · December 15, 2016

Well done in getting the right car.

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sorcerer · December 15, 2016

My own outlook on this, although the hybrid aspect does pose an additional 'quirk':

We bought our RX300 back at the end of May. It's an '05 plate so it's 11 years old, had 79.5k on the clock and we paid £5,500 for it from an independent trader (rather than main dealer) who gave us 6 months warranty on it. Main dealers charge such extortionate amounts of money for servicing/repairs and warranties that there comes a point where the owner, quite rightly, thinks that it's just not worth it and moves away from the main stealers. Our particular car has 7 years Lexus history and then regular paperwork from a couple of indy garages, so it has a full history, just not a full Lexus history. This didn't put us off in any way, shape or form because we intend to keep it until it dies and gets carted off to that great car park in the sky, nor would it have put us off if the intention was to keep it for a year or two and then resell.

For what we paid, and probably up to the amount you're looking to spend, I wouldn't be bothered about a full Lexus history and I certainly wouldn't bother with a Lexus warranty and all the cost involved in having to have it serviced at Lexus main dealers and what have you - the only fly in the ointment would be the hybrid system. If you could get the Lexus hybrid check/warranty without the other stuff, I'd do that. If not, I'd be looking for an indy garage who could handle hybrids and go there instead.

What you have to remember is that Lexus are just cars. Luxury cars, admittedly, but just cars. To use a few examples from above:

- A mirror replacement can cost as much as £450 from a main dealer

And if the car is two or three years old you'll probably pay it, but if it's over seven years old, why would you? Just get one from a breakers yard or eBay

- A reconditioned audio unit (they are sealed units and include the 6xCD changer) costs around £1500 to replace

Same answer - breakers yard/Ebay or put a Pioneer or whatever unit in instead.

My Nissan Maxima QX 3.0 V6 developed a fault with the Mass Airflow Sensor and Nissan wanted over £300 for a new one, whereas I got a brand new aftermarket pattern part for £25 from eBay and it worked a treat.

@Britprius has posted this over in the GS forum in the last hour:

I have just picked up a pair of GS450H rear discs made by Quinton Hazel for the sum of £20 the pair from eBay. Strangely I bought a pair of rear discs for my Prius 6 years ago for the same price from the same seller.

And while I'm on about brakes, Lexus (I believe) will charge more than £350 for a brand new caliper even if it's just the slide pins seized, whereas somewhere like Car Parts Direct will sell you a refurbished one for less than half that if that's what you need. You can even send them your own caliper and they'll completely refurbish it for you.

The point is (cos I've waffled on long enough), owning a Lexus or any other prestige car doesn't necessarily need to be very expensive. For the last 35 years I've always had top-of-the-range cars (Mk 1 Granada 3.0 Coupe and Mk 2 2.8i Ghia X; Rover 827 SLi and 800 series Sterling amongst others) but only when they got to about 8 or 9 years old, none of which have ever been serviced or worked on in any way at main stealers because it simply wasn't worth spending that sort of money on that age of car. Plus, I prefer to give my business to local, independent garages and mechanics in my own local community.

Carl911 · December 15, 2016

I recently bought an rx450. But as others have mentioned, these RX do seem to get very abused when compared to similar aged saloon Lexus such as IS or GS.

i looked at some RX that were only 4 years old in the forecourt of the Lexus main dealer at very high prices and the interiors were really quite poor, leather very worn looking and creased more like a car that had done 120.000 miles rather than the ndicated 60,000. Exterior had lots of scratches and some dents. More often than not the front and rear bumps would have scuffs on particularly on the corners.

now I'd expect this if the car was a couple of grand but these were ten times that price.

im very particular and like most here had to look at quite a few before the right one come up. Oddly enough the car I bought was slightly older and cheaper than most I had looked at yet in by far the best condition.

I guess the point being, there are some real gems out there but it will take some searching but persevere and the perfect car is out there for you.

good luck as when you find it you will wonder why you never bought one years ago.

carl

actionslax · December 16, 2016

Thank you all for your comments and taking the time to reply - it has been very helpful and hope others will find this thread. Is good to see both sides of the story.

I did forget to mention in my early post that I've been doing most of the due diligence on some of the vehicles that look decent like a few of you have said - checking MOT through DVLA, phoning the Lexus garage to find out what is on file etc. I've pretty much been looking at trade independents as I have a Volvo (which has cost us ~£3k to keep on the road over the past 3 years!) to trade plus the benefit of warranty offered. Only looking at cars that have FLH and checking that all recalls have been done plus checking if a hybrid check has been done too.

We(young family of 4) only do ~ 3-4000k miles a year. Quite a bit of stop start so a petrol hybrid seems the perfect combo. We'd plan to keep it for a long time or when we win the lottery and I'd change it for a new one .

I don't think I'd use Lexus for maintenance and will try and find a reputable indy specialist if I can. Do agree with @sorcerer on those part replacements - ebay/breakers way forward.

I think my main issue is that we're coming from a Volvo that has had quite a few issues. That has been a dud for sure and don't wan't to repeat that experience with a car(Lexus) that is probably going to cost even more. From the sounds of these cars they seem reliable and keeping on top of servicing and dealing with wear and tear bits as soon as they appear is the way forward.

I spoke to one dealer last week and the previous owner had spent £2700 on a service and repairs (timing belt, centre exhaust, brakes, service) - 2006 SE-L with 86k. £7,495.

royoftherovers · December 16, 2016

Stuart,

Consider speaking to the previous owner and ask why he sold the RX and how many previous owners did he have.

Look forward to you joining us all on the Forum.

Regards

John

actionslax · December 16, 2016

It was a 3 owner car with the third being partner of owner 2 all serviced at the same Lexus dealership. I've discounted this one for the moment trying to aim for a FL 2007/8.

actionslax · December 16, 2016

I've been looking around the forum and have taken some notes of some of the useful things that have been talked about. Sure I've missed a few but hopefully of help to other people.

Quoted most prices at the dealer but might be useful to do an alternative comparison.

Maintenance:

Timing belt and water pump (~ £554.62 for TB + £270.58 for WP) replacement at Lexus dealer - 100k service
Brakes last (disc and pads) (~£600 inc labour) for the 4 corners at Lexus dealer
- Genuine Lexus disks and pads all round about £300 to buy from a Lexus dealer. Apec copies about £200. Local garage may charge about £150 for fitting.
Service intervals
- 60k biggy (~ £600+ at Lexus dealer)
  - Replace
    - engine oil and filter
    - engine air filter
    - engine coolant
    - brake fluid
  - Rotate tires, Road test vehicle, Courtesy car wash and interior vacuum
  - Alignment and balance of wheels is recommended, but not included
  - Synthetic oil extra
  - Inspect the following:
    - Valves (audible inspection), adjust if necessary, Drive belts, Fuel lines and connections, fuel tank vapour, vent system hoses, fuel tank band, Fuel tank cap gasket, Charcoal canister, Exhaust pipes and mountings
- 100k biggy (~ £600+ at Lexus dealer) See link for full break down.
Annual Hybrid Health check (~£60 at Lexus dealer)
Requires an intermediate service every 10,000 miles or 1 year whichever comes first - also a Full service every 20,000 miles or 2 years WCF
Other replacements to note:
- Spark plugs 60,000 miles
- Brake fluid 2 years
- Engine coolant 100,000 miles
- Inverter coolant 100,000 miles
- Air filter 40,000 miles/4 years
- Pollen filter At full service
Tyres: £110+ a corner
Lexus offer fixed price repairs on all models over 5 years, they are discounted 15-20% on normal retail prices - not sure this is still applicable

Common issues:

H.A.S.
- Hybrid Anxiety Syndrome! (to worry, without rational reason over the failure of proven technology) @Pablo43
  - love this one - I'm definitely going through this.
Subframe corrosion
Lower suspension arm rubber bushes
12V Battery £80
- Battery can flatten after being left unused for 14+ days
Seized rear brake calliper
Fuel tank straps
Corrosion on alloy wheels and roof bars
Water Ingress

Not so common issues:

Exhaust and replacement - (Seen a figure of £1300 but sure that may be for full end to end replacement)
Fault code 'check Hybrid System'

Useful info:

Refurbish batteries
- http://www.hybridbatterysolutions.co.uk/
Yearly renewable hybrid warranty is valid on cars up to 10 years old only
Honest John review (2005 - 2009)

Buying tips:

Check recalls have been done
If FLSH phone dealer and check what's been done
Check MOT history on DVLA
Check if the Hybrid health check been done - bonus if it has
AA/RAC reports
Check the brake disc surfaces, if they are rusty then it indicates the caliper sliding pins are seized
Check the front tyre inside edges as they wear first
Make sure you have master and valet keys and all work
Service record is up to date and can be validated
Check to see if car spent any time at coast - worth considering for possible speeding up of subframe corrosion

Like this

ISJason · December 16, 2016

That's a good post. I'll keep that for when I upgrade my RX. Thanks

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Parrot of Doom · December 16, 2016

Bought mine in 2013 (IIRC), so far the only things that have gone wrong are the front nearside caliper sticking (replacement wasn't expensive) and the cigarette lighter doesn't power up. Oh and the nearside door mirror sometimes doesn't position itself correctly when reversing. I do about 10,000 a year.

The steering feels a bit hesitant lately so at 11-12 years old and 110,000 miles I reckon some bits need replacing, but apart from that it's been absolutely fine. Yes, they're expensive cars, but servicing will only be expensive at a dealer. Find a Toyota/Lexus specialist and you'll be fine. My cambelt and spark plugs were changed for a fraction of the dealer price above.

Oh and Lexus keys of 2005 vintage are absolute rubbish, they break where the blade meets the fob. Always.

sorcerer · December 17, 2016

A good post Stuart but, like you say, you picked main stealer prices which will frighten you to death

Our car had 79.5k on the clock when we bought it and I got an independent garage to change the timing belt (along with associated idlers/tensioners etc) and water pump. I'd already bought 10 litres of Toyota Super Long Life Pink coolant from my local Toyota dealer for the great offer price of £63 and the garage charged me about £360 to do the work if I remember correctly, making it £423 or thereabouts (can't remember exactly) for the whole thing.

When we had the car converted to LPG, knowing that the guy would be removing some parts, I asked him to change the spark plugs for us at the same time (apparently the rear bank are a right pig of a job) and he charged us £100 to do that saying that it took him about 4 hours, even with a lot of stuff out of the way for the LPG installation.

You mentioned exhausts above. Someone on this forum had a custom-made, stainless steel exhaust made for his RX300, guaranteed for the life of the car, for the all-in price of £395.

I'm sure you already know this but it has to be remembered that Toyota/Lexus, Nissan, Ford, Vauxhall - in fact, no manufacturer as far as I'm aware - make their own things like brakes, exhausts, batteries etc., they just buy in from the people who do make them. Ergo, there's no point in buying "genuine" Lexus parts at their inflated, extortionate prices - not for items like that anyway.

PCM · December 17, 2016

What a brilliant thread.

Good advice for us all!

royoftherovers · December 17, 2016

An excellent post Stuart.

I would just add "Speak to previous owner if possible to ask why he sold the vehicle and what problems did he experience whislt in his ownership"

As far as wear on the inside of tyres is concerned, conventional wisdom attributes this to owners trying to straddle speed bumps. Wear can be minimised by driving over the centre of the bump with one wheel and between the bumps with the other. Thus both tyres are "on the flat" when traversing the bumps.

Regards

John

actionslax · December 17, 2016

1 hour ago, sorcerer said:

A good post Stuart but, like you say, you picked main stealer prices which will frighten you to death

1

This I suppose is possibly why I started the thread. I'm looking to see the real value and cost of ownership and it would be great to compare costs against the dealership.

I've created a spreadsheet with the prices I have to date. It would be great to see what people are spending at indys

If you can, please fill in any information you have.

Cheers.

ColinBarber · December 17, 2016

You can find Lexus pricing here:

https://www.lexus.co.uk/owners/servicing-and-maintenance/#ServicingYourLexus

scroll down to essential care and select RX.

Dougy Giro · December 29, 2016

For those on this thread looking to buy - which ones have you looked at and have discounted for what ever reason?

It may help others looking (including myself) to discount the car if it is a bit of a dog.

Im looking to spend up to £8K, preferably on a facelift 400H; not too concerned about mileage as long as has FLSH and hopefully the timing belt already done

rayaans · December 30, 2016

On 16/12/2016 at 3:47 AM, Carl911 said:

I recently bought an rx450. But as others have mentioned, these RX do seem to get very abused when compared to similar aged saloon Lexus such as IS or GS.

i looked at some RX that were only 4 years old in the forecourt of the Lexus main dealer at very high prices and the interiors were really quite poor, leather very worn looking and creased more like a car that had done 120.000 miles rather than the ndicated 60,000. Exterior had lots of scratches and some dents. More often than not the front and rear bumps would have scuffs on particularly on the corners.

now I'd expect this if the car was a couple of grand but these were ten times that price.

im very particular and like most here had to look at quite a few before the right one come up. Oddly enough the car I bought was slightly older and cheaper than most I had looked at yet in by far the best condition.

I guess the point being, there are some real gems out there but it will take some searching but persevere and the perfect car is out there for you.

good luck as when you find it you will wonder why you never bought one years ago.

carl

Agreed with this.

The RX seems to be the family workhorse in the Lexus range and therefore most will have quite a few blemishes unless the owners are like me and really look after their cars!

After looking at multiple RXs even after buying mine (usually when my car goes in for servicing) and just being curious, I found many to have touched up areas and poor seat condition. Some even had marks where people put baby seats in without placing a towel or similiar underneath.

My youngest is 7 and still requires a car seat but what I've done to combat wear is to get a long pile hardwearing carpet, cut it to size for the base of the seat and stuck it on with some super glue :)

actionslax · December 31, 2016

On 30/12/2016 at 5:50 AM, rayaans said:

Agreed with this.

The RX seems to be the family workhorse in the Lexus range and therefore most will have quite a few blemishes unless the owners are like me and really look after their cars!

After looking at multiple RXs even after buying mine (usually when my car goes in for servicing) and just being curious, I found many to have touched up areas and poor seat condition. Some even had marks where people put baby seats in without placing a towel or similiar underneath.

My youngest is 7 and still requires a car seat but what I've done to combat wear is to get a long pile hardwearing carpet, cut it to size for the base of the seat and stuck it on with some super glue :)

That's a decent tip. I was looking at these seat protectors.

I'm not any closer with purchasing a vehicle. I've been considering the possible repair costs not just for the Lexus but for an XC70 which is also on the cards. I think I will just have to take a leap of faith and hope whichever I go for(and ticks all the boxes research wise) is a good one.

@Dougy Giro what're your thoughts on possible repairs/maintenance?

There's an SEL in Edinburgh I originally went to see and seemed ok but slightly out of our price bracket. Was worried about the underneath corrosion as it has been based in Aberdeen/by the coast.

rayaans · December 31, 2016

3 hours ago, actionslax said:

That's a decent tip. I was looking at these seat protectors.

I'm not any closer with purchasing a vehicle. I've been considering the possible repair costs not just for the Lexus but for an XC70 which is also on the cards. I think I will just have to take a leap of faith and hope whichever I go for(and ticks all the boxes research wise) is a good one.

@Dougy Giro what're your thoughts on possible repairs/maintenance?

There's an SEL in Edinburgh I originally went to see and seemed ok but slightly out of our price bracket. Was worried about the underneath corrosion as it has been based in Aberdeen/by the coast.

Looks a good product actually and should be quite durable. Thanks for posting.