Windshield washers problem

Linas.P · December 8, 2016

My car recently have developed interesting fault. I cannot say it came unexpected, for a while it was intermittent i.e. washer fluid didn't come on the first pull of the leaver.

Over the time I was associating it with maybe half empty washer fluid bottle, rare use or air in the washers tubing.... until recently. Now I can confirm that washer bottle is full, but noting comes up from the jets.. even after 10-20 pulls. Windscreen wipers starts swiping to clean the fluid (which meant to be there), but nothing come out.

I would like to note that head lamps washers works fine, only the windscreen washers are affected.

Any ideas? I guess there should be fuse, so might need to start from that?

NemesisUK · December 8, 2016

Do you hear the windscreen pump operating? If yes, then probably have blocked nozzles and or supply pipes. Maybe a connector has come adrift, do you see water dripping out anywhere?

If you don't hear the pump operating, as you say, perhaps the fuse has blown and/or the pump is US.

rayaans · December 8, 2016

Does it happen all the time or just in mornings?

Might be frozen over. could also be the washer crystallising

Linas.P · December 8, 2016

No water is not dipping and I can hardly hear anything (quiet cars...) I will need to ask my gf to full the leaver for me and try to hear something.

I doubt it is blockage anywhere, because previously when it was working it was strong stream, I would expect it becoming weaker and weaker before just barelly dripping if that would be blockage... though you never know... will need to check that as well somehow.

Linas.P · December 8, 2016

3 minutes ago, rayaans said:

Does it happen all the time or just in mornings?

Might be frozen over. could also be the washer crystallising

No it is all the time now + car is garaged and temperature in London was well above 0 in last few days... Finally, my washer fluid is good "up-to -15".. or at least that what manufacturers claims.

peachy · December 8, 2016

Had the same problem on my old 220d.I had to have a new pump fitted. fits under front wing passenger side.

NemesisUK · December 8, 2016

Have you changed washer fluid manufacturer? Some are incompatible with others and nearly always when mixing manufacturers there is a gradual build-up of sludge in the bottle. Eventually some of the sludge gets sucked up by the pump and clogs the workings

Linas.P · December 8, 2016

I usually do not mix fluids, but because fluid level sensor is oversensitive and sometimes starts flashing while there are still half of the bottle. I am now thinking it might be the cause as I remember it first started playing up last summer when I added some concentrated screenwash. It was continuously harassing me to fill up washer fluid with triangle warning sign on the dash, but when I added like 500ml of concentrate I realised there are not much space to add water... so at first it was too concentrated, later not enough concentrated - obviously lesson learnt - "premix concentrate before filling the tank.. or buy mixed ready to use stuff"

39 minutes ago, peachy said:

Had the same problem on my old 220d.I had to have a new pump fitted. fits under front wing passenger side.

I am worried that I might need to replace the pump.. @peachy How much was work + parts?

normski2 · December 8, 2016

I have a feeling there may well be 2 pumps.

One (high pressure) for the headlight spray

and

The other (lower pressure) for the windscreen.

Pretty sure that's how it was on my old is200 .... figuring it's likely to be the same for the Mk2 IS'

Linas.P · December 8, 2016

Sounds similar.. whenever I accidentally use headlight washers .. they blast half of washer fluid away for no reason (there is separate button, just for headlights, but no button to turn-off bloody thing). Not sure why this options was offered in UK, it is only useful for snow or mud.. which is not that common in UK. I remember reading it is somehow related with HID's and therefore standard equipment.

Shahpor · December 8, 2016

Yep, Xenon headlights require a washer system installed in the UK.

@normski2 is right that there are two pumps in the system.

Here are the locations of the washer system parts:

Unfortunately, it does seem a bit of a pain to get to since the bumper and NSF headlight have to be removed, as well as the arch liner.

Linas.P · December 8, 2016

Thanks for schematics, I was expecting that bumper needs to come off or at very least I would need access it from underneath with chop-sticks. Anyway now it is clear, fingers crossed it is just a fuse.

As well thanks for confirming.. I knew there was some relation with HID's - how stupid of government, what is practical use of these washers in UK?

NemesisUK · December 8, 2016

They're great at soaking cyclists .....

ahmedali44 · December 8, 2016

Your diffently not great fan of cyclists u should live in London

Wisty · December 8, 2016

4 hours ago, NemesisUK said:

They're great at soaking cyclists .....

As a keen cyclist and also sprayer of cyclists, I both condemn and condone this message :)

Linas.P · December 9, 2016

6 hours ago, NemesisUK said:

They're great at soaking cyclists .....

This one is epic.. actually I was seriously thinking about sabotaging my headlight washers (as they are generally useless) and one of ideas was to adjust them so that I can properly spray away annoying moto and bi cyclists.

Obviously, we need to consider this in context of really irritating as***les, not just anyone.

normski2 · December 9, 2016

If you need any instructions/guide for bumper removal I have one saved on a pdf.

It has proved very useful thus far.

Linas.P · December 9, 2016

Thanks, I don't think I will attempt it myself... as I would need to do it in residents underground parking ... and I think I am not permitted to due it... If I have at least drive way maybe then.

djkenn · December 10, 2016

If it makes you feel better, I had a 5 series BMW that to do any thing other than top up the washer bottle, you had to take the front wheel and the plastic wheel arch lining out, which meant something simple like a new washer bottle motor was a major job, as getting the wheel arch lining back in was horrible.

Linas.P · December 10, 2016

No... I am not surprised at all I worked in small garage when teenager fixing cars with friends.. To replace brake bulb you have to take off rear bumper in Peugeot 406 and similarly to replace headlight bulb you need to take off front bumper on Citroen Xsara Picasso... On modern cars almost anything you do needs bumpers to come off...

By the way it seems the easiest way to access the pump on Lexus is as well removing wheel arch lining.

I haven' got the time to get to check it, so far I can only say that when pulling the leaver I don't hear washer motor working, just some clicking sound... but that might come from wiper motors... Still need to check fuses.

Linas.P · December 10, 2016

Had little faith in it, but just checked the fuses and obviously they are fine, tried to take all the covers, but I cannot even see the washer bottle, not to mention any access to motor from above, if I can get to it, would be able to check if I can clean it.

Anyway looking for new motor (pump) and will need to get it fixed next week. Poor thing costs £10, but I am sure it will be 10 times more to replace it.

Update:

I might be out of my mind but I will attempt to do it myself. Looked around and it seems I can reach it by removing wheel arc lining. Tried reaching it through the gap between bumper and lining and I can't see it, but can barely touch it with my hand. I guess that is not correct by maintenance guide, but for me doing it alone it seems easier to remove one wheel and arch lining, that is to remove bumper, headlight, washer bottle and only then the pump.

Ordered torque wrench.. just to double check .. are wheel nuts 76lb/ft?

Linas.P · January 22, 2017

Ok so, have replaced washer motor and all fine now.

As mentioned previously, instead of removing front bumper (which is really 2 person job) and undoing maybe 30 nuts, I have instead removed the wheel and wheel arch cover ~ 11 nuts and few clips. I am 100% certain it is 3 times quicker and simpler + you can do it alone.

Took me around 20 minutes + 30 minutes of draining the washer fluid.

1. Remove the wheel (I mean I have no doubts, you can guess by now, that car needs to be jacked-up :) ):

2. Undo 5 nuts + 3 clips in wheel arch. Then 3 nuts holding rubber lip and finally 3 nuts holding arch cover to the front of the bumper = total of 11 nuts and 3 clips. Take a note which nuts go where (there are 2 types/lengths) :

3. then you can clearly see offending washer motor:

4. You can then undo cables and hose by hand (make sure to have bucket for washer fluid as it will start dripping straight away):

5. Finally, when reservoir is drain you can simply remove washer motor by hand, carefully twisting and moving from side to side helps. I have sprayed some WD-40 while it was dripping, but I don't think it is necessary:

6. Replace rubber seal first (my replacement motor came with new seal, but I guess you can reuse old one), then push the motor back into reservoir. To be honest it feels rather easy and it fits loosely, but that is fine (I guess) because reservoir plastic is quite soft and thin, so if you use any force it is easy to brake it... so don't over-do it:

7.... All done..., check if all works before re-assembling:

Having bonnet up helps... as it doesn't make all car wet :)