GS300 to RX450H or GS450H???

[Spacewagon52]

31 minutes ago, GSLV6 said:

 I have no wish to keep changing vehicles.  For me, this means a larger capacity lazy and relatively efficient engine

Buying a reliable car, is for me one of the main priorities. It is not always about cost but the inconvenience of having to take it back to the garage, especially when they don't fix the problem the first time. A "good" car gives you a "feeling" which is hard to describe - it has nothing to do with the age of the vehicle. Thinking back to my purchasing experiences (only ever bought one new car) the two (old) LS400's I have owned have given me the biggest grin on my face. I try to work on a depreciation of £1,000 to £1500 a year. If I can keep within this band then I think I am doing well.

What has been your most enjoyable car to own?

What has been your "best" and "worse" depreciation experience? This will probably need a new thread?

[Carl911]

58 minutes ago, GSLV6 said:

Thanks Carl.  Yes, spot on.  The only difference of opinion is that the problems that I have encountered with the GS started at under 60K miles, which is no miles at all for a modern motor vehicle, yet my C Class went to over twice that without a hiccup.

The other thing we have to be careful of, forum reports to one side for the moment, is to watch what we take from vehicle surveys.  If you read the Which Survey for 2016, then read the Auto Express Survey, then the JD Power Survey, you get very different results for each based on the same year!.  The JD has Skoda first place overall for the fewest faults reported across the range (problems per 100 vehicles) and has the Merc E Class ranked first for the large/luxury car segment.  Go to the Auto express survey and Lexus take the 5 top spots with Merc ranked a fair bit lower down.  Which rates Lexus quite highly but also rates Merc E class quite highly.

So what are we to believe?  Well, some information is taken from owner's own feedback irrespective of mileage or ownership period, so voting can be skewed if say an owner votes having only owned a car for a week, and that result ends up as part of the 2016 survey.  You have to scratch beneath the surface to see how these surveys are conducted then take what you want from them.  I like the Which Reports, and JD doesn't appear to cover all marques which leads me to be suspicious about their agendas and motivation (ie is money involved here?).  Auto express and Which also have similar agreements on vehicles such as Lexus, Toyota and Subaru.  That lends some peer review-type consensus which aids confidence.  Taken on that alone,  the RX does well in reliability scores and I have no reason to doubt that an RX would be anything other than pretty reliable at a few years old.

Close scrutiny is still demanded though when discussing such large sums of money, as due diligence is something to be ignored at one's peril.  I am risk averse by nature having learned from experience and having more than a smattering of mechanical and engineering know how.  For me, it boils down to what a manufacturer is willing to demonstrate to win their share of my savings.  Have they responded well and appropriately to customer concerns, have they learned lessons and applied solutions and above all, have they demonstrated care in customer service and standards?  If the answer to any of those questions is "no!" year in year out then they will not have a penny of my money.  Modern cars, as you say, are really no more reliable than cars of a decade ago, and there is plenty of evidence to suggest that vehicles made between 2000 and 2007 remain as some of the most reliable of all time, since when increased emissions legislation has led to ever more complex controls as a fix to aging (yet reliable) designs.  Smaller engines for most modern makes are shorter lived (our Indy says that many a 3 cyl petrol is scrap at 80K miles) and the industry is one of consumerism chasing repeat sales for the latest and greatest, at vast expense of carbon footprint for encouraging everyone to change cars so often.  This is a frankly ridiculous juxtaposition of the green credentials insisted on by EU legislation yet they turn a blind eye to whole life reliability and longevity as it suits their member state car makers profits (= job security).  I see through that absurd position now, so am looking for a vehicle that I can buy at a few years old and run into the ground.  I have no wish to keep changing vehicles.  For me, this means a larger capacity lazy and relatively efficient engine, not a diesel (particulates and strangulation with bolt on PDFs plus incumbent reliability issues this now brings) so the RX seems to tick lost of boxes.  The E class still appeals but I suspect that it will be hard for me to get my head around the modern diesel longer term issues and the issue of particulates.  I won't stop me looking though as the boxes have to be checked.

That hopefully sets out my thinking a little more detail.  

I agree with the small engine versus large. 

Personally I have always preferred large engines for their longlevity and effortless  power.  In a lot of cases the economy doesn't vary massively, take the lexus NX hybrid 2.5litre versus the RX hybrid 3.5litre. In reality there is very little real world difference in economy and I put that down to the fact that the smaller engine takes more throttle to achieve the same end result hence the economy evening out between engines. As always it's all about how you drive but you can drive much more relaxed in a bigger engine where as a smaller feels the need to be pushed more often.

i certainly agree about diesels engines. I had a few and never liked them. Yes they have great torque but otherwise they are dirty and on borrowed time as to when they block up the various components designed to keep them environmentally friendly. 

I think as you stated, a lot of cars between the 2000-2007 had less to go wrong and the proof is the amount still on the road and running well.

i always read the threads on LS models with there big engines running faultless several hundred thousand miles on. A testament to engines of that era.

if only we could look into a crystal ball and see how many years reliability we would actually get on our chosen car.

carl

[GSLV6]

Good points from David.  All I can tell you is that the GS has been our least reliable car, it's suffered highest depreciation and bizarrely it's still close to the top of our list as one of the best to drive, only pipped by the Merc C220 estate which handled far better.  For  grin factor, the biggest slice of fun is our tweaked Fabia vRS....all 170BHP (in tweaked form) of tyre shredding, limpet gripping insanity wrapped up in something you wouldn't give a second thought to.  It sees off much larger, more powerful cars with ease, and runs rings round most in the corners thanks to uprated suspension and brakes.  We've spent a bit on it but it's been worth every penny, and for all that, it is the most economical vehicle we've ever owned returning a genuine 67mpg average, with a best of 84mpg.  Nothing we've owned comes remotely close. Luxury?  No.  Well built?  Errr, tank-like build but not high quality.

Horses for courses as you cannot compare one with another.  Yes, a new thread really as this topic doesn't really sit comfortably here in a thread on a potential buy.  There is one other contender as a dark horse that we may also look at, which is the all new Volvo V90 estate.  Beautiful looking, great engine, massive spec for the price.  We'd be foolish not to consider it.  So there we have it, the RX450H V's the E Class 250 Bluemotion V's the Volvo V90 D4 Estate.  I kept that one back as I hadn't seen one up until recently, but it pretty well blew me away when I did.  Interior build I think betters even Lexus.  Have yet to arrange a test drive though.

As per your last post Carl, we are in total agreement, yet again.  I haven't totally discounted diesel, it's just it's not top of my list due to PDF issues etc plus they are still more polluting than petrols.  The V90 has to be worth at least a test drive but for me, a question mark hangs over the reliability of Volvos in general.  The last of the truly long lived reliable ones were the 850's imho.  The RX on paper at least, still looks to be favourite but I'd kick myself for not considering the other contenders properly.  There's nothing else we'd consider currently other than those mentioned.

[Spacewagon52]

21 minutes ago, GSLV6 said:

 The RX on paper at least, still looks to be favourite but I'd kick myself for not considering the other contenders properly.

The fun is in the chase!

[GSLV6]

One thing I meant to ask you RX owners...the "Which" tested the mpg for the 2012-2015 RX450H and gave tested combined figures of 34.76 (say 35) mpg, urban 49mpg and motorway 26mpg.  Is that motorway figure for real?  If the extra-urban was low 40's, how is driving at sensible speeds on a motorway going to return 26 mpg?  Our GS returns 38mpg at 70mph steady speed.  I'd certainly expect something similar from the Atkinson cycle 3.5 V6.

[Funkyboy]

7 hours ago, rayaans said:

RX reliability is not an issue. Most owners have no problems, I certainly haven't.  

The Merc on the other hand, well it had issues even though my wife took better care of it than me for my RX. 

She had it serviced on the same day every year for 10 years and it still had problems. Have to say merc dealers are the worst ive come across as well. 

I'd strongly suggest taking a look at E class forums as there's plenty of issues including build quality problems, wheel corrosion etc.

Also, if considering an E class, I'd consider a GS450h F Sport. It's a real cracker at handling with its rear wheel steering and goes like stink as well. Lovely to drive, I'd have one if I didn't need the bigger boot no question. 

I'm not sure whether the E class has more kit as standard either. I'm pretty sure they don't come with HUD, laminated windows, privacy glass and the previous gen has fake leather if not opting for the real leather. Comes with xenon headlights too, not LEDs and most don't have a reversing camera either

I have owned a Mercedes and a jaguar plus I was a member of both the relevant forums. I have to say on the Mercedes forum there is very little problems that get mentioned and on the ones that do have problems it seems to be on 10 year plus cars.

the Jaguar on the other hand was full of issues on 2yr plus cars. Both forums where excellent and the jaguar forum saved me a fortune on fixes. 

Mercedes are much more reliable than Lexus when you consider the volume they sell verses the amount of issues that do come up. There is also a huge independent Mercedes servicing infrastructure that will save an absolute fortune after the car is out of warranty. Main dealers main service £550 independent Mercedes specialist £300 using genuine parts. Also Mercedes allow independent specialists to update the online service history. 

Because Lexus is relatively small in the UK as a volume distributor there is no real independent network so you will have to use the main dealer network which is quite expensive. 

[Funkyboy]

10 hours ago, GSLV6 said:

HI Ja, no not yet. Truth is, we've put it on hold because of membership of this forum.  It's a lot of money at over £30K and the more we read, the more unresolved reliability and running cost issues Lexus seem to have. We're reconsidering a low miles used E-Class and are weighing up the pros and cons of each model still.  Having posted over on the GS side of the forum, you'll appreciate where we're coming from given the issues that we've suffered with Lexus, so I won't be handing over £30K until such time as I'm sure it's the smart move.  It's simply too large an investment.  Having test driven other vehicles, the RX doesn't handle, go, stop or drive as well as an E Class, costs more, has less kit as standard, and less load space.  I found the RX more comfortable though and prefer the higher driving position.

Forums are interesting places to spend some time around as you'll pick up many years of feedback from people with no axes to grind and get honesty, not becoming of dealerships.  The decision so far has been GS450H = "forget it!" and RX450H = "definite maybe".   I want to be sure that the paintwork issues, some of the rust issues, suspension and engine issues that I've experienced with the GS will NOT be repeated on the RX. I want to do some more reading first.

We also considered the new F-Pace but load space is pitiful by comparison, the drive is noisier and fit and finish not as good.  The RX ticks a lot of boxes and I am test driving one particular 2 year old RX next week that I am interesting in buying, but am also still considering an E Class. The test drives plus owner's club feedback, plus the views of my local independent garage mechanic are all things which will heavily sway my decision.

Mercedes are much more reliable than Lexus when you consider the volume they sell verses the amount of issues that do come up. There is also a huge independent Mercedes servicing infrastructure that will save an absolute fortune after the car is out of warranty. Main dealers main service £550 independent Mercedes specialist £300 using genuine parts. Also Mercedes allow independent specialists to update the online service history. 

Because Lexus is relatively small in the UK as a volume distributor there is no real independent network so you will have to use the main dealer network which is quite expensive. 

I would think very hard about spending £30k on a car that drive train wise hasn't changed for over 10yrs and wasn't a great drive even when new. A 3ltr Mercedes estate will be a considerably better drive and far superior on the reliability front. Checkout the Mercedes forums and you will see the amount of issues is relatively small considering the volume sold.

Don't forget the amount you have already spent on owning a Lexus which sort of dispels the myth of reliability.

[rayaans]

Like with all things I presume some people get lucky with reliability whilst others don't.  

Usually with Lexus more people tend to have no issues whatsoever. 

Out of all the cars we owned the Merc C220 cdi was the most unreliable. It had failed wheels, rusting arches and drivetrain issues hence it needed to go. That was only at 74k as well. Wasn't great on fuel either, did about 30mpg and span rear wheels quite often regardless of performance tyres.  Worst car we've had in the winter too.

We've had a passat, fiesta and pug 306 and none of them had as many problems hence my dislike for Mercs. 

We still have a few in the family and they still have their occasional issues. My father in law got peed off with his and replaced it with a mini Cooper S! 

The wheel issues have been sorted now. I've had a kerbed wheel for 3 years and it's still the same, no corrosion whatsoever on the RX. 

[rayaans]

42 minutes ago, Funkyboy said:

Mercedes are much more reliable than Lexus when you consider the volume they sell verses the amount of issues that do come up. There is also a huge independent Mercedes servicing infrastructure that will save an absolute fortune after the car is out of warranty. Main dealers main service £550 independent Mercedes specialist £300 using genuine parts. Also Mercedes allow independent specialists to update the online service history. 

Because Lexus is relatively small in the UK as a volume distributor there is no real independent network so you will have to use the main dealer network which is quite expensive. 

I would think very hard about spending £30k on a car that drive train wise hasn't changed for over 10yrs and wasn't a great drive even when new. A 3ltr Mercedes estate will be a considerably better drive and far superior on the reliability front. Checkout the Mercedes forums and you will see the amount of issues is relatively small considering the volume sold.

Don't forget the amount you have already spent on owning a Lexus which sort of dispels the myth of reliability.

That's not true. Reliability is on percentages or issues per 100 cars. Therefore it's standardised. Let's not forget that Toyota is the biggest car manufacturer in the world and has very good reliability

I also think your thinking on drivetrain is flawed. An older engine setup throughout the years means all the issues have been ironed out and removed and a naturally aspirated engine is always going to be more reliable than a turbo diesel

There's nothing wrong with the drivetrain in the RX, it's silky smooth and has linear power delivery with good NVH

I don't understand the servicing aspects either. You can use who you want to service the car, so costs are probably going to be the same and Lexus parts are cheaper.

What difference does it make if independents can update the online service book? An independent can stamp the Lexus book as well!

I've driven a combined 120k in my Lexus vehicles and owned them since 2004 with nothing but wear and tear, services and recalls. 

[GSLV6]

I think Dennis that reading the forums, Mercedes don't really have the edge on reliability at all.  The newer models it's true, suffer from less (expensive) mechanical issues than they once did (and not so long ago) BUT they're still plagued by electrical faults and Mercedes still hasn't sorted things like Glowplug life on their diesels, with some failing as low as 10K miles on new cars.  Their issue is the exact same one that hit BMW when they replaced the E46 3 series and similar vintage 5 series for the newer models about 10 years ago.  The sensors, and ancillaries on all vehicles are not specified for longevity but for a life of 3 to 5 years.  They could spend a little more and drastically improve reliability, but there's a balance to be struck in favour of profitability, and BMW got that spectacularly wrong in 2006/7 with their new cars as did Mercedes when they first introduced their Bluemotion motors.  It took a few years for them to sort many of the issues, including prematurely failing injectors, turbos going South (in the case of Beemers) to a parts issue on the turbo swirl flap specifications amongst other issues.  Rust was an issue on mid naughties Mercs only on the Brazilian built C class (best avoided at all costs) but Beemer did have rust issues across the board.  My 2004 E46, despite regular cleaning and underseal protection etc, still ended up with rusty wheel arches at just 6 years old!  Steel quality and preparation for paint wasn't all that it could have been.

Reading Merc forums (of which I'm still a member even though we've sold ours) shows still that they have no end of problems and more than Lexus owners report on average too.  Most seem to centre around the control systems, (like ECUs and sensors), glowplugs (still!) and suspension on some models. Very few reported issues are evident mechanically on their bi-turbo diesels although their 4 x 4s are probably best avoided with numerous reliability issues with the GLA/GLC and GLE models which are costly to run too.

However, I do agree that the 3 litre common rail turbodiesel is one of the real gems in the Mercedes line up and always was.  It is reputedly one of the most reliable diesels on the planet, the result of many years development.

Lexus do enjoy a better reliability record as evidenced by all of the annual surveys conducted over the past 10 years or so.  However, taken in context and not overall, the E Class is probably as reliable as anything from the Lexus camp, but I'd argue cost of ownership will be higher than the Lexus RX.  Tyres are more expensive, taxation will be more expensive, insurance ditto, and servicing costs will be as much if not more. Add to that the headache of replacing the PDF filter when the time comes and wave goodbye to £1000 for that alone.  Also add in to servicing costs the replacement glowplugs, usually best replaced in sets, the annual cleaning of the EGR (essential although most people disregard this important part of looking after a diesel) and it suddenly doesn't look to be the bargain it started out as.  That is, until you look at strong residual values after 10 years.

I'd hazard a guess that it'd be a close run thing between the 3 litre or the E250 (2.1 litre) and the RX450h for longer term reliability and there may be a PDF at a grand to think about with the Merc, but there's no £4K Battery pack to worry about and batteries, lets get real here, DO have a finite cyclic life, hence any warranty will only be worth the first 10 years of ownership with the Lexus.  After that you cross your fingers 'cause if a Battery pack goes later on, the cost of replacement of Battery plus say new shocks all round could well exceed the value of the car!  Therefore, when calculating depreciation on any Lexus, I always take the cost over the first 10 years of life and write off residual value after that for the hybrid vehicles anyway.  Risk averse?  Perhaps.  Prudent?  Certainly.  One thing I don't do is to believe the rubbish spoon fed to me by Lexus sales staff, some of whom seem to know less than my 6 year old son when it comes to their cars.  I have a good relationship with the spanner who actually does the work on my car.  He's the bloke I go to when I want to learn something about Lexus. 

[royoftherovers]

30 minutes ago, Funkyboy said:

Mercedes are much more reliable than Lexus when you consider the volume they sell verses the amount of issues that do come up. There is also a huge independent Mercedes servicing infrastructure that will save an absolute fortune after the car is out of warranty. Main dealers main service £550 independent Mercedes specialist £300 using genuine parts. Also Mercedes allow independent specialists to update the online service history. 

Because Lexus is relatively small in the UK as a volume distributor there is no real independent network so you will have to use the main dealer network which is quite expensive. 

I would think very hard about spending £30k on a car that drive train wise hasn't changed for over 10yrs and wasn't a great drive even when new. A 3ltr Mercedes estate will be a considerably better drive and far superior on the reliability front. Checkout the Mercedes forums and you will see the amount of issues is relatively small considering the volume sold.

Don't forget the amount you have already spent on owning a Lexus which sort of dispels the myth of reliability.

Lexus is part of Toyota and Toyota is the World`s largest motor manufacturer, bar non.

Toyota embraces, Isuzu, Subaru,and Daihatsu. Toyota and each of the subsidiaries mentioned have class leading reliability figures which are consistently in the upper quartile of all figures published worldwide.

Mercedes production worldwide does not come anywhere near Toyota and the reliability of Mercedes and its subsidiaries is a myth and based largely upon the W123 and W124 Series. Its mythical status ranks alongside VW for which  reliability figures have often not exceeded Ford.

I have had 4 Mercedes and 2 Toyotas (Daihatsu and Lexus).

The first Merc was a C200 Diesel Manual which needed 4 replacement glow plugs at 30,000 miles

The sceond Merc was a C180 Petrol Auto Estate which was fine

The third Merc was a C220CDI Auto Estate which needed 2 sets of replacement glowplugs and rusted away before my eyes

The fourth Merc is an E 220 cdi Auto estate which is now 13 years old and has done 215,000 miles. It has had one wheel bearing, one Electronic Ignition Switch,one radiator one set of glowplugs and its model (W210) has an unenviable reputation for rusting away at lightning speed. I am fortunate in that rust does not seem to have affected mine.

The Mercedes Dealerships which I have used have only wanted my money in return for not providing a service.

The large network of Mercedes Indies are making a small fortune as a result of Mercedes inefficiences.

The first Toyota was a Yaris 1,3 Auto. It lasted 13 years and not one thing was replaced or went wrong. It is now in my daughter`s hands where it continues to perform in an exemplary fashion.

The second Toyota is my Lexus 450h,first registered in July 2010. I have had it now for over 3 years, have done 26,000 miles and it has performed faultlessly.

Whilst it is true that Lexus Indies are thin on the ground, Toyota Indies are not and they can service and maintain Lexus vehicles.

I know which Manufacturer I would recommend to car buyers !

Regards

John

[GSLV6]

Good post John.  Our Merc was a W124 and was a very strong engine although not especially frugal!

[NemesisUK]

Firstly, it's always worth reiterating one will always read more posts regarding problems on a forum, than good news stories. The vast majority of car owners are not members of forums (fora??) so one is never really sure of the relative reliability simply by reading the web..

Bit like working in a hospital and thinking everybody is sick

Mercedes certainly are no more or less reliable than the majority of marques. That said their modern diesels if they do breakdown, are prone to very expensive problems. Petrols much better and cheaper to repair/maintain. 

My two Mercedes, one a 270cdi, was very reliable needing nothing more than normal service related items and a few wear related parts. It covered 140k miles. The second a 55k AMG was equally reliable but hugely more expensive to maintain...

[GSLV6]

2 minutes ago, NemesisUK said:

Firstly, it's always worth reiterating one will always read more posts regarding problems on a forum, than good news stories. The vast majority of car owners are not members of forums (fora??) so one is never really sure of the relative reliability simply by reading the web..

Bit like working in a hospital and thinking everybody is sick

Mercedes certainly are no more or less reliable than the majority of marques. That said their modern diesels if they do breakdown, are prone to very expensive problems. Petrols much better and cheaper to repair/maintain. 

This^^^

However, Merc diesels are probably as reliable as any other and don't seem prone to expensive breakages, all bar things like glow plugs seemingly made from jelly babies.

[royoftherovers]

20 minutes ago, GSLV6 said:

Good post John.  Our Merc was a W124 and was a very strong engine although not especially frugal!

I had one for a weekend once Paul.The fuel gauge was faster than the clock !!

It was an E200T Auto in Malachite .

[rayaans]

1 hour ago, GSLV6 said:

I think Dennis that reading the forums, Mercedes don't really have the edge on reliability at all.  The newer models it's true, suffer from less (expensive) mechanical issues than they once did (and not so long ago) BUT they're still plagued by electrical faults and Mercedes still hasn't sorted things like Glowplug life on their diesels, with some failing as low as 10K miles on new cars.  Their issue is the exact same one that hit BMW when they replaced the E46 3 series and similar vintage 5 series for the newer models about 10 years ago.  The sensors, and ancillaries on all vehicles are not specified for longevity but for a life of 3 to 5 years.  They could spend a little more and drastically improve reliability, but there's a balance to be struck in favour of profitability, and BMW got that spectacularly wrong in 2006/7 with their new cars as did Mercedes when they first introduced their Bluemotion motors.  It took a few years for them to sort many of the issues, including prematurely failing injectors, turbos going South (in the case of Beemers) to a parts issue on the turbo swirl flap specifications amongst other issues.  Rust was an issue on mid naughties Mercs only on the Brazilian built C class (best avoided at all costs) but Beemer did have rust issues across the board.  My 2004 E46, despite regular cleaning and underseal protection etc, still ended up with rusty wheel arches at just 6 years old!  Steel quality and preparation for paint wasn't all that it could have been.

Reading Merc forums (of which I'm still a member even though we've sold ours) shows still that they have no end of problems and more than Lexus owners report on average too.  Most seem to centre around the control systems, (like ECUs and sensors), glowplugs (still!) and suspension on some models. Very few reported issues are evident mechanically on their bi-turbo diesels although their 4 x 4s are probably best avoided with numerous reliability issues with the GLA/GLC and GLE models which are costly to run too.

However, I do agree that the 3 litre common rail turbodiesel is one of the real gems in the Mercedes line up and always was.  It is reputedly one of the most reliable diesels on the planet, the result of many years development.

Lexus do enjoy a better reliability record as evidenced by all of the annual surveys conducted over the past 10 years or so.  However, taken in context and not overall, the E Class is probably as reliable as anything from the Lexus camp, but I'd argue cost of ownership will be higher than the Lexus RX.  Tyres are more expensive, taxation will be more expensive, insurance ditto, and servicing costs will be as much if not more. Add to that the headache of replacing the PDF filter when the time comes and wave goodbye to £1000 for that alone.  Also add in to servicing costs the replacement glowplugs, usually best replaced in sets, the annual cleaning of the EGR (essential although most people disregard this important part of looking after a diesel) and it suddenly doesn't look to be the bargain it started out as.  That is, until you look at strong residual values after 10 years.

I'd hazard a guess that it'd be a close run thing between the 3 litre or the E250 (2.1 litre) and the RX450h for longer term reliability and there may be a PDF at a grand to think about with the Merc, but there's no £4K battery pack to worry about and batteries, lets get real here, DO have a finite cyclic life, hence any warranty will only be worth the first 10 years of ownership with the Lexus.  After that you cross your fingers 'cause if a battery pack goes later on, the cost of replacement of battery plus say new shocks all round could well exceed the value of the car!  Therefore, when calculating depreciation on any Lexus, I always take the cost over the first 10 years of life and write off residual value after that for the hybrid vehicles anyway.  Risk averse?  Perhaps.  Prudent?  Certainly.  One thing I don't do is to believe the rubbish spoon fed to me by Lexus sales staff, some of whom seem to know less than my 6 year old son when it comes to their cars.  I have a good relationship with the spanner who actually does the work on my car.  He's the bloke I go to when I want to learn something about Lexus. 

Shocks shouldn't really be an issue on models apart from the Premier.  

It seems to occur on older 2nd generation RX rather than 3rd gen. 

Also worth noting that diesel is being frowned upon and something tells me it won't be long before its banned. A few government friends are suggesting 2020 but take that with a pinch of salt as it may never occur

 

[GSLV6]

21 minutes ago, rayaans said:

Shocks shouldn't really be an issue on models apart from the Premier.  

It seems to occur on older 2nd generation RX rather than 3rd gen. 

Also worth noting that diesel is being frowned upon and something tells me it won't be long before its banned. A few government friends are suggesting 2020 but take that with a pinch of salt as it may never occur

 

 

I'd take that with a massive pinch of salt Rayaans.  Can you imagine the outcry if expensive diesels on sale today were banned in 3 years time?  It's not going to happen.  What is far more likely is that some city centres will ban them, or at least start limiting entry on emissions.  This has been tabled before but even this is unlikely as who will fund the policing and revenue infrastructures needed?  Cloud-cuckoo land when the present government can't even get a grip on some more pressing agendas like extracting us from the EU.

However, the writing is on the wall for diesel, as the UK government (and the EU) backed the wrong horse, and are only now admitting that diesels are more damaging to health.  Smaller, diesel hybrids may continue long into the future but it would be safe I guess to assume that it will take about 10 years to start phasing out larger diesel engined vehicles and my view is that it will be done via annual tax rises promting new buyers to look at alternatives. It's already happened with petrol engines from 2007 onwards.  My GS costs about £500 annually to tax, which is about a tenth of its current trade in value yet one a year older costs half that amount.  The same will happen with diesels.  They will simply become unattractive to buy and run unless the government does yet another U-turn on environmental grounds should emissions technology catch up and limit particulates in diesels to more acceptable limits.

[GSLV6]

Well, after a good look at an E350 Merc Estate, I was left mightily impressed by the power and handling....it has no right to go round corners the way it does!  However, must say that in spite of the glossy photos, I was left a little underwhelmed by the finish and the ride on the Sport model is just too firm for me as are the seats. It was also ridiculously long!  I never thought I'd say this, but I hankered after the more relaxed and serene drive and comfort of the "more boring" RX, so decision made and I'll hopefully be the owner of a 2014 F Sport next week, fingers crossed.  I will be having a final test drive Tuesday and take it from there.

[Funkyboy]

4 hours ago, GSLV6 said:

Well, after a good look at an E350 Merc Estate, I was left mightily impressed by the power and handling....it has no right to go round corners the way it does!  However, must say that in spite of the glossy photos, I was left a little underwhelmed by the finish and the ride on the Sport model is just too firm for me as are the seats. It was also ridiculously long!  I never thought I'd say this, but I hankered after the more relaxed and serene drive and comfort of the "more boring" RX, so decision made and I'll hopefully be the owner of a 2014 F Sport next week, fingers crossed.  I will be having a final test drive Tuesday and take it from there.

How did you find the suspension on the f sport?

[GSLV6]

Not a lot different to the Luxury model, just a bit less body roll.

[rayaans]

15 hours ago, GSLV6 said:

Well, after a good look at an E350 Merc Estate, I was left mightily impressed by the power and handling....it has no right to go round corners the way it does!  However, must say that in spite of the glossy photos, I was left a little underwhelmed by the finish and the ride on the Sport model is just too firm for me as are the seats. It was also ridiculously long!  I never thought I'd say this, but I hankered after the more relaxed and serene drive and comfort of the "more boring" RX, so decision made and I'll hopefully be the owner of a 2014 F Sport next week, fingers crossed.  I will be having a final test drive Tuesday and take it from there.

Omg I guess you've come of age lol

Yep the E class is certainly very long. One of my colleagues has one at work and it sticks out of the standard car parking spaces we made and it's usually parked next to mine

[GSLV6]

I'll officially be able to take a SAGA holiday in two weeks Rayaans   That's more scary than the prospect of an RX!

I thought that the GS was long at about 15 feet.  The E class was about a foot longer!  That was not a good selling point for finding car parking spaces and I'd always be worried about it getting clouted by other vehicles as we've already had some ignoramus with the driving skills of an ape leave tyre marks down the side of one of our cars in the supermarket. 

[GSLV6]

Well, as an update, I appear to have had an accident this morning.

Do you know, my hand slipped today and it accidentally caught my bank card from my wallet and slid it out into a Lexus card reader, even typing in the PIN number!

You have to watch it this slippery cold weather as things like that can accidentally happen.

 

It followed another early morning accident where I slipped outside and landed in the car and accidentally drove to a Lexus dealership.  When we got there (my wife and son slipped too), we got out and accidentally slipped into a shiny silver RX450H F-sport (easy to confuse as it was another silver car and the sun was in our eyes).  It wasn't until we were on the motorway that my wife worked out there was no transmission tunnel in the rear where her and my son sat, so realising our mistake, we pulled off the motorway and headed back to Lexus to hand the car back and apologise for what was really a very silly mistake, but it must happen all the time with them.

 

The nice man kindly offered us a cup of coffee to warm us up, and it was then that I had the accident with the bank card.

 

I don't know how, but somehow we seem to have bought a two year old Lexus RX.

 

Joking aside, having looked at quite a few, and this was the best of the lot.  A 2014 F-Sport with ML upgrade, black leather, and optional roof bars (to be fitted as part of the deal).  Under 16K miles from new.  It drove better than any of the others. It just felt tauter, the cabin was quieter, even more so than the GS which was a surprise after the noisy Luxury model we'd been in (tyres I suspect).  I ensured that Sport mode was engaged and whilst I still think it isn't quite a match for the GS on performance, there was no lag, unlike driving it in Eco or Normal modes.  Very impressed.

 

We got a reasonable deal on the GS in PX, and the RX had just been reduced by £2K, so the room for negotiation was limited.  Still, we were given top book for the GS which was about £1500 under what I could have easily achieved privately, but in some respects, it saves a month to 6 weeks of tyre kickers, haggling and a cluttered driveway and means no complications over paying a double whammy on tax and insurance etc.  I was impressed that lexus arranged 3 days free cover, sorted the road fund tax, sorted the servicing and provided a comprehensive 12 month warranty.  The car has a few years left on the Hybrid system warranty and we elected not to take the extended 2 year warranty or paint/leather protection which we can get cheaper by buying that ourselves anyway.

 

All in all quite chuffed with the deal.  Compared the Mk4 RX whilst there and with the exception of the dash and cabin, I actually prefer the Mk3.  It has a more sensible load area in the rear not as compromised as the new shape which doesn't appear to give any real world advantages for the extra £25K it would have cost us.  I'll post pictures once I have the car and do a short write up on another thread after living with it for a while.

 

Thanks to all who have helped with information, much appreciated.

 

 

[Spacewagon52]

Enjoy! Interested to know what you think of this model after you have had it a few weeks.

 

I would be surprised if you are disappointed.

[Carl911]

1 hour ago, GSLV6 said:

Well, as an update, I appear to have had an accident this morning.

Do you know, my hand slipped today and it accidentally caught my bank card from my wallet and slid it out into a Lexus card reader, even typing in the PIN number!

You have to watch it this slippery cold weather as things like that can accidentally happen.

 

It followed another early morning accident where I slipped outside and landed in the car and accidentally drove to a Lexus dealership.  When we got there (my wife and son slipped too), we got out and accidentally slipped into a shiny silver RX450H F-sport (easy to confuse as it was another silver car and the sun was in our eyes).  It wasn't until we were on the motorway that my wife worked out there was no transmission tunnel in the rear where her and my son sat, so realising our mistake, we pulled off the motorway and headed back to Lexus to hand the car back and apologise for what was really a very silly mistake, but it must happen all the time with them.

 

The nice man kindly offered us a cup of coffee to warm us up, and it was then that I had the accident with the bank card.

 

I don't know how, but somehow we seem to have bought a two year old Lexus RX.

 

Joking aside, having looked at quite a few, and this was the best of the lot.  A 2014 F-Sport with ML upgrade, black leather, and optional roof bars (to be fitted as part of the deal).  Under 16K miles from new.  It drove better than any of the others. It just felt tauter, the cabin was quieter, even more so than the GS which was a surprise after the noisy Luxury model we'd been in (tyres I suspect).  I ensured that Sport mode was engaged and whilst I still think it isn't quite a match for the GS on performance, there was no lag, unlike driving it in Eco or Normal modes.  Very impressed.

 

We got a reasonable deal on the GS in PX, and the RX had just been reduced by £2K, so the room for negotiation was limited.  Still, we were given top book for the GS which was about £1500 under what I could have easily achieved privately, but in some respects, it saves a month to 6 weeks of tyre kickers, haggling and a cluttered driveway and means no complications over paying a double whammy on tax and insurance etc.  I was impressed that lexus arranged 3 days free cover, sorted the road fund tax, sorted the servicing and provided a comprehensive 12 month warranty.  The car has a few years left on the Hybrid system warranty and we elected not to take the extended 2 year warranty or paint/leather protection which we can get cheaper by buying that ourselves anyway.

 

All in all quite chuffed with the deal.  Compared the Mk4 RX whilst there and with the exception of the dash and cabin, I actually prefer the Mk3.  It has a more sensible load area in the rear not as compromised as the new shape which doesn't appear to give any real world advantages for the extra £25K it would have cost us.  I'll post pictures once I have the car and do a short write up on another thread after living with it for a while.

 

Thanks to all who have helped with information, much appreciated.

 

 

Congrats and enjoy your purchase.

out of curiosity what tyres are fitted to your RX as I find the opposite, my Gs is quoted on road noise to my RX. 

carl