RC300h F-Sport 24h Test drive

[NemesisUK]

Dealers aren't to blame Lexus dictate market availability ..

[Linas.P]

I am sure you are right.. I would say the same. But when I told that to Lexus dealer he was like "nobody would buy RC350 here"... so I was not convinced he would forward my comment to Lexus.. and as such Lexus would not know that customers are complaining. Though, I am sure Lexus knew very well what they are doing when they decided not to introduce RC350... they must have entire team working just to decide which cars to sell where to maximise the profits.

[noby76]

15 hours ago, Linas.P said:

 

That Clio is 2.0l Sport, 7.1s 0-60, 137MPH top speed, so it would overtake RC300h in any conditions, from any speed.

not sure why you tried a 0-60 with one the figures says it all an more over those hatches are like 12-1300kg in weight so power to weight ratio plays a part. even your IS250 would have a tough time against one. have you considered an infiniti G37 Coupe?? might not have the 'look at me' fresh looks like the RC but certainly not a slouch and figures puts it on par with an RC350  and 4-5 year old models would be about half the money of the  RC-F

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201606235204236?model=G&sort=price-asc&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly New&onesearchad=New&advertising-location=at_cars&radius=200&make=INFINITI&postcode=mk160ay&page=1

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201611039418071?model=G&sort=price-asc&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly New&onesearchad=New&advertising-location=at_cars&radius=200&make=INFINITI&postcode=mk160ay&page=1

 

[Linas.P]

Well spotted John, I knew somebody going to spot it sooner or later, the thing is my IS250 is £4000 and 8 years old, while RC300h is £40000 and virtually new. So not exactly fair comparison...  I mean if I am about of fork out that amount of money I want to make sure it is "upgrade". Obviously, buying new RC300h is out of question, when I can get 1 year old RC-F with ~15k miles for less money and fully loaded.

I have not though about infinity and it is indeed very interesting alternative.

[MNMJ]

The Infiniti G37 is great; I tried both coupe and saloon and nearly bought one over the IS-F in 2010. The only problem was finding a nearly new one in the spec I wanted. I would have had to order one which would have cost the same as an 8 month old IS-F.

There should be enough out there to have  choice now

 

 

 

[doog442]

22 hours ago, Linas.P said:

I guess you can refer to original OP post to find out.....

 

There is nothing in your original post about an RC 200t?

 

[Linas.P]

There is link to another topic in my post....

[Linas.P]

Few random notes from my test drive:

• I prefer my IS250 key fob (Denso).. it had more weight in it and feels more premium. Functionality wise they are the same, but whilst in 2006 Lexus was one of the first to introduce proper "keyless entry and go system" (probably since 2004 in GS), in 2016 BMW and a likes have surpassed this level i.e. you get "smart key" with BMW 4-series (might be an option though), which is like smartphone and has screen with various functions (below is 7-series, but same is used in 4,5 series and originated from i8). So Lexus is now comes from one of leading companies in kind of catch up game...

• LFA style dials as mentioned previously is in the level of their own, I guess BMW offers similar functionality, but it is nowhere as impressive. On the other hand I though more functions can be displayed on the dash and all that screen real estate is not fully used (I have seen there are a lot more options in say RC-F).
• I found center console design much more comfortable when sitting in passenger side e.g. gear leaver, navigation controls.. even cup holders. At first I though Lexus being lazy and putting same same console regardless where steering wheel goes, but that is not true left hand drive models have opposite arrangement. That must by my physique, but my girlfriend said that she feels the same, it seems more comfortable for passenger side. Maybe Lexus expecting every driver to have personal assistant to set sat-nav including changing gears.  Gear change is not big issue though, as most of the time you just need to change it once, S mode is simple pull towards yourself and I would prefer using paddle-shifters when in S-Mode anyway.. so no big deal.
• Rear view mirror is most elegant design I have ever seen (I believe BMW 6-Series and MB S-Coupe has something similar), but indeed it looks excellent.
• Options offered with this model is not that great and limited for no reason e.g. RC luxury can have ACC, but not LFA style dials, where F-Sport can have only opposite. I would like to have F-Sport with ACC and pre-collision and BSM, but that is not even an option. Other options are like for example panoramic sunroof or glass roof.. Wouldn't that be great? Or "surround view" cameras.. As well Germans have things like wireless charging (I know apple users won't understand this one). HUD is now pretty much standard option in premium cars.. not Lexus. As well Lexus was one of pioneers by introducing assisted parking (aka car parks itself - if I am right 2006 LS was the first model to have it).. why this is not an option on RC, nowadays even entry level Nissans' and Renaults' has it... You don't want to kerb those contrasted, diamond cut 19" wheels... So whereas I always priced Lexus for simplistic trims and comprehensive standard equipment (this hold true back in 2006-2010).. now it seems they below the competitors with standard equipment, but even more with equipment overall ... where you simply cannot order it. Isn't luxury brand should give some freedom to spend more money?

[doog442]

23 hours ago, Linas.P said:

There is link to another topic in my post....

Its a massive post..have you driven it ?

[Linas.P]

Just to help you out:

Somebody suggested that I should try RC200t instead. I have stated that I am not expecting miracles from RC200t, because:

1. There is above thread which states exactly what I am expecting myself - 2l turbo engine is unsuitable for this car (no offence just personal opinion and preference).

2. Whenever is sensible comparison or not I had Passat CC 2.0t in the past and it was worse car I have ever owned, mostly because I found low volume turbo engine trashy and underpowered in heavy "coupe"... Whilst WV cannot be compared with Lexus, the package sounds very similar ... Heavy coupe and screaming tiny engine which you need to rev to redline before car starts barely moving. 

3. When I have opportunity I will test RC200t, but you can already expect the outcome. Somebody who rather choose RC350 with 3.5l V6, 308hp and 5.6 0-60, not going to be impressed with the car...

[rayaans]

The reason for limited options I believe is because 9/10 Lexus vehicles come on a ship. Then dealers basically sell them off, hence if you go for White/red RC300h F-Sport you can have it within 2 weeks. If you add ML, the time goes up as the car has to be built and then sent off specially. 

I asked my dealer about an orange/red RC200t with ML. Turns out waiting time would be 4-6 months!! 

 

Also, worth remembering that the RC is going to get a facelift soon as the IS has and undoubtedly itll get the updated interior from the IS

[NemesisUK]

The factory order thing is common to many marques. You want that rare option combo, you can wait 3-6months even if the factory is just over the Channel..

My choice of RC was already on its way from Japan, the ship rounding the tip of India. Had I wanted that sunroof it would have been another 6 weeks for the next sailing.

My dealer provided a link so I could track the ship all the way to Bristol, I knew my car was here before they did!

[Linas.P]

I am not sure that is relevant to shipping, they make all RCs in Japan, no matter what car they you order it will need to be shipped and I am sure they don't keep much stock here anyway. Maybe they shipped first 100 cars to begin with, but the rest will be made to order. So one way or another they need to customise the orders. That said I made 2 points, 1 - poor standard equipment, 2 - poor options available.

That cars comes in ship is not related to offering, there must be bigger reasons for that.

 

[NemesisUK]

Really sounds like you don't like/rate Lexus, perhaps you should be looking elsewhere? You are not going to influence their marketing strategies... 

[Linas.P]

I like Lexus, but just don't understand/agree with their offering and I am in a way feeling like Lexus doesn't care about UK market. If they going to continue doing so I might well look elsewhere, but that is different topic.

It is not about feelings or anything, but just opinion based on market research and comparing Lexus offering with their competitors offering. If I would be looking at M4, I would definitely choose RC-F instead, but when it comes to middle range I believe customers don't have much other choice but BMW430 or MB C300.. I guess that is the point I am trying to make.

As well as per my above post I found it strange that Lexus doesn't have certain options which would be naturally associated with luxury brand and which can impact their competitiveness in the market. Not only that they have some self imposed limitations where they offer option only with another option or vehicle tier, which has no reason to be there whatsoever, which further impacts their competitiveness. 

All above is just for sake of discussion and I am not trying to identify which car I should buy personally. 

[NemesisUK]

Every marque imposes restrictions on option selections and combinations. Mercedes Benz is possibly one of the worst, very 'class' differentiating. I'm sure if one marque observed another gaining sales by one tactic or another, they would soon follow suit. Case in point, electric windows, offered as standard by Japanese car manufactures in the UK market very quickly prompted/forced UK manufacturers Ford, Vauxhall etc to follow.

When looking at my most recent purchase I found Lexus to offer, as standard, what many others offer as options. At first look Lexus always appeared expensive, until one optioned that MB or Audi to the same level..

[Linas.P]

I agree that was the case between 2006-2010 and possibly before. Exactly the reason why I got my first Lexus over BMW and MB... I we never fan of Audi though. 

But what you are saying is not the case when we have RC300h/200t in mind... you can do you own research and prove me wrong, but what I found is that no only standard trim poorer, but as well additional options are lacking. 

And again there are self imposed restrictions, like I said there is no reason why Lexus should no allow you to specify ACC + BSM in F-Sport.. just doesn't make sense. Again if you look to MB or BMW it is true that they bundle certain things together, same as Lexus e.g. you cannot get ML for £1000 without getting Premium navigation for £2000, but what I am talking about is that if you select C300 + AMG Pack it is not going to prevent you from selecting panoramic sunroof or ACC or Parking Assist.

So with BMW you can get ultimate best specification, but with Lexus you can get either one or another, but not both.. and that is just beyond me.

[NemesisUK]

37 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

But what you are saying is not the case when we have RC300h/200t in mind... you can do you own research and prove me wrong, but what I found is that no only standard trim poorer, but as well additional options are lacking. 

I did do my own research and that;s why I purchased the car I did. Much of what Audi offer as options, the Lexus has as standard. Yes, there may be many more options available from Audi but I did not value those enough to want them. Had it been that I did, then I would have bought the Audi

Just goes to illustrate each purchaser has their own priorities and preferences. It just seems those that you project would sit better with another marque?

[Linas.P]

That other marques gives different or better options, it doesn't mean that they are more suitable for that marque or that other marque is more suitable for me. It just means that Lexus has ways to improve their offering.

To add.. I have tried to select as close as possible options and below are results:

RC200t F-Sport - £40,490 (base £37,495 + £2,995 options (only ML).

BMW420i M-Sport - £39,290 (base £33,450 + £5,840 options)

MB C200 AMG Line - £38.295 (base £32,660 + £5,635 options)

AUDI A5 2.0 TSI S-Line - £41,125 (base £35,915 + £4,525 options)

You are right, by saying that Lexus by default has better standard equipment, as you can see optional extras are much more on other makes, but one can configure better BMW or MB for less (the prices included all what Lexus has and more + premium Sound Burmeister, Harman Kardon etc..) + I was little bit limited in terms of options e.g. to match Lexus standard lane departure system I had to select Premium Package on MB for £3000, but Comfort trim had sufficient functionality for me, for only £995... so there is potential that I could have it even cheaper, optionally I could have like C300 instead of C200 and Comfort package and still have car for £38k, by simple fact MB and BMW allows more customisation.

On top of that while there are not much else to select on Lexus as ACC, BSM, HUD, Panoramic sunroof are not available I could have all those options on BMW or MB, just as said before allowing me to configure ultimately better equipped car. Obviously, in such case it would have been more expensive, but all that extra equipment is exactly what I would like to have.

2 Notes: 1... Audi was by far worst and most expensive car, something I knew from before. The ugliest looking, the worst engine, the worst gearbox, the dullest interior and in the end when I made all selection it somehow showed me 2.0TDI and not 2.0TSI... I believe because sport suspension (or other option) is not available with TSI... So now again I am just trying to be impartial and honest.. but some Audi fanboy can easily come and say I am bashing Audi for no reason. 2. I know this is RC300h thread and I am comparing everything to 200t, but 300h not only going to be £1000 more expensive, but as well there is no way to compare it, because there is no other such slow car on offer from any other maker.. I can compare it against BMW418d, but it wouldn't be fair as it is 8k cheaper.. well and it is diesel.