RC300h F-Sport 24h Test drive

Linas.P · December 3, 2016

Just finished my 24h RC300h F-Sport test drive and though I share my opinion. If you want to try it yourself it seems Lexus giving that options over the phone, but not officially in their booking page as per my previous post:

Thanks for Lexus Woodford for allowing me to take it for a spin (I wish their service department would be as nice as the sales ..)

Talking about particular example I got - it was lovely black F-Sport (graphite grey (223)- which is black metallic rather than standard non-metallic black velvet (212)), with dark rose leather - in my opinion the best colour combo - understated, luxury looks. The rest were all standard - F-sport rims, no sunroof (Lexus no longer calls it moonroof) or any other extras.

I must admit I had some expectation from the car as I have previously tried IS300h and CT200 F-Sports as a loaners during the previous services and therefore I kind of knew what will be the pros and cons. However, this time I had car not for journey home and back, but for 24 hours, so I could get used to it and understand it a bit more. Below is my experience over the course of the drive, all below is my opinion and therefore I hope I am not going to hurt anyone's feelings.

As no surprise RC300h has stunning looks, what I didn't expect is that how many affections the car gets. I guess the relative rarity adds to already amazing looking car. I don't think looks needs any discussion and it is subjective, but in my opinion it is amazing and blows almost any competitor out of waters. The only negative point I found was rather cheap looking plastic inserts in dashboard and door panels - I don't understand what Lexus tried to achieve with them, because they are neither brushed aluminum, nor carbon fiber looks. It is small detail, but sadly Lexus doesn't give any options to change these inserts to anything else on F-Sport (Luxury, Premium and RC-F has different options). Other element which which adds some "ricer" looks are the tiny brakes behind those massive 19" wheels, but I guess hybrid badges all around explains it.

It is not a secret RC300h is heavy car, nor is that it is slightly underpowered. 220hp for something weighting 1800kg isn't much and translates in sluggish 8.6s to 60MPH, however that tells only half of the story - in fact 223hp is combined power, whilst 2.5l straight 4 turbo engine only makes 181hp. The additional power comes from electric motor and a least in my opinion when accelerating from stand still system is not well integrated... it does judder around and feels like electric motors doesn't add much. Overall, I just re-confirmed my previous experience in IS300h - it is not sports car, hesitant to accelerate, not inspiring confidence when overtaking. The best thing to do is to leave poor 2.5l fella in it's comfort zone quietly moving in traffic at posted speed limits. It is a bit sad, because there is nothing under that massive bonnet to match the striking looks of the car. I will come back to positive side of this set-up later.

So far the things just gets worse (before becoming better), the engine sound is just awful.. I am sorry to say that, but it sounds trashy, has no nice note under acceleration neither from the engine, nor from exhaust. You can hear things happening, like turbo spooling up and electric motor engaging, but whole sounds just adds to a noise similar of something like vacuum cleaner pulling some bolts from under the sofa. My only thoughts were like - "I don't really want to hear this.. it isn't pleasant". Added to sluggish acceleration described above it just makes me feel like sitting in supercar which is broken. The looks insideout shouts of sportiness, but when you kick the pedal nothing comes out.

Now this brings us to another and almost last problem. The car had standard (as stated in brochure "6-speakers Panasonic") Lexus audio system. I have mentioned that many times elsewhere, it is equivalent of what you would get in Ford Fiesta or WV Polo, because Golf and Focus has better systems - this system is not worth being anywhere near Lexus. After playing with some settings I managed to set it in a way so it didn't hurt as much, but Mark Levinson system is MUST with this car. I kind of understand Lexus in this case - they made mistake putting too good system in Mk2 IS and there were no reason to upgrade to ML, so what they did with Mk3.. they made standard system so crap that there were no way around upgrading it to ML, finally this is not huge issue and does have option - spend £3000 for optional ML pack (ML costs £1000, but comes as package with Lexus Premium Sat-Nav for a £1995). I just think Lexus is premium brand and should have better standard audio system or at least allow standalone upgrades without Sat-Nav.

Standard sat-nav is not great, but it is not Lexus specific issue, but rather any in car navigation in any brand is far worse than simple free app on smartphone.. that is just a reality. Waze or even build in google maps can run circles around in-car navigation, quicker, more accurate, much better user interface, better routes and so on. I doubt upgrade to Premium navigation would improve anything. If I have an option I would specify them to take entire thing away and I would rather put £5 dock and £150 tablet there, which will be 10 times better.

Now to positive and rather unexpected experience. As mentioned I has tried Lexus CVT before and was not impressed, it was just another comfortable automatic transmission.. full stop. However, I took RC300h to short trip to Eastbourne (from London) which had mixture of the roads - motorways and twisty A and B roads. Turn Sport+ mode, Gear leaver to S... and wow car become alive. Whilst there are no gears as such, rates changes almost instantly and gives great control over power delivery in bends. This nearly instantaneous changes gives great sporty feel and makes both up and down shifts pleasant experience... you can actually brake with gears on a hybrid. This applies to paddle-shifters as well, they are no longer gimmicks and feels just great when you downshift in tight bend.

Next-up firm F-Sport suspension was doing great job in cornering and was not overly harsh or crashing on poor B roads, there were no unpleasant sounds from it and wide and grippy tires together with well balanced suspension allowed to pull some tight corners and actually enjoy them. Steering wheel was a bit light and detached from the road, but overall didn't ruin fun in corners.

Great driving positions, fully adjustable steering wheel and seats gave a lot of support and made driving very comfortable. Overall good quality materials, sound isolation. That is probably not correct, but sitting position seems to be lower in RC compared to IS.. that might be just impression because of the slightly different design of the cabin.

I really liked LFA style tachometer and the whole design and graphics are very impressive (makes me wonder why they cannot adapt some of that logics for Sat-Nav design). I didn't have a chance to discover all the settings, but it seems "infotainment" does the job it suppose to do, except already mentioned speakers and navigation. I do not understand purpose of Standard and Sport Driving modes, I mean if you not generally in a rush, you set it to eco and when you want to drive faster you use Sport+. For me having 4 modes is just unnecessary clutter and steps changing between them... it is not overly annoying, but just seems unnecessary.

Now finally it comes the positive side of sluggish performance. I did total of 570miles yesterday, spent half day in London traffic, then spent whole afternoon trashing car in twisty A/B roads and seeding on few motorways. Considering all odds that would be ~27 MPG on my IS250 whilst RC300h managed 42.7 MPG. Some can argue that it is almost best of both worlds great fuel economy and comfort in urban commute and actually quite a lot of fun in country side. I partially see this point, but cannot fully agree - it is great car, but I believe Lexus had enough know how to make at least sound right, while I would not expect to brake any speed records 6.5s to 60 would be standard for luxury sport coupe.

I can see quite few comments coming up now .. saying you know there is such a thing as RC-F... that is right.. if not Lexus selling RC350 in US - 3,5l, V6, 306hp, 8 speed direct shift transmission and 0-60 in 5.6s.. and starting from £36,700 .. ouch. Sadly in UK we have no such option, no ground in between boring compliance vehicle and mad RC-F. So here is kind of unexpected twist - I cannot blame Lexus for not developing right car, I can only blame UK government and market for not wanting it around here.

To summarise RC300h F-Sport is a looker, both inside and outside, build quality is great with only few small details for improvement. However, the experience was kind of unexpected for me. It has been the best where I have expected it least, it was comfortable and economical in city traffic, but greatly disappointed with sluggish performance and trashy engine when the rare opportunity came around to go past the traffic. It was not great on motorway either, too light and uninformative steering didn't inspire confidence and required concentration and frequent adjustments, neither it was economical (at my standard 90mph pace). Very surprisingly it was most enjoyable on the twisty A/B roads and CVT transmission proven to be great addition. Overall, car delivered great fuel efficiency and it is cheap to maintain. It is kind of too sensible and not enjoyable enough for a coupe. If somebody looking for a practical car why not IS300h? and is the looks worth ton of extra money ... that is sadly two questions I am trying to answer myself.

Now the last remaining question ... Do I like it, would I buy one? I certainly like it, but at twice the price (looking to the used ones) than IS300h it is hard decision, as well I have to come over my hearing or at least find the car with ML, I need to convince myself I am sensible person and rare mad moment overtaking is not worth investing in car made only for that, whilst I will spend 95% of time complying with the slow moving traffic (at what this car is great). Obviously, in ideal world I would buy RC-F and NX300h or live in Trumperica and buy RC350, but we do not live in ideal world and neither are the options. I would give only 3/5 for the car, -1.5 being for the sluggish engine and sound and -0.5 for audio system, but I would still get it over BMW 420d/MB C220d coupe/Audi A5 2.0t... so in the UK car market it does make sense.

I hope you going to find this interesting and let me know what you thing or what you ave experience yourself.

rayaans · December 3, 2016

Interesting review.

Odd that you mention "turbo spooling up" as these cars don't have one!

Also the spec on that car seems very odd - most would go for premium nav with the 8 speaker sound system (sounds much much better as its a Pioneer system with a subwoofer)

Something to note is that hybrids always feel slower than conventional engines for some reason but in fact, the RC300h would smoke an IS250 from rolling starts (its mid range acceleration is pretty awesome). We're talking 3.0l diesel beating mid range figures here.

As for the engine sound, are you positive you didnt have the stupid sound actuator on? It sounds awful!

An RC200T was better IMO when I test drove them as I dont think the 300h setup suited the RC as much as the IS.

Linas.P · December 4, 2016

You are right, when I am a bit confused myself. At first I though it is 2.5l v6 +electric - that is obviously not the case and the engine is 2.5 4l and works in Atkinson cycle. What makes me confused is below review:

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/lexus/rc/94286/lexus-rc-300h-2016-review

When I red it is 2.5l turbo it kind of made sense for me, but at the same time I though 181hp from 2.5 turbo seems to be very little power e.g. BMW manages 231hp and whopping 320NM from 1.5l 3l turbo engine, even Lexus themselves manages 241hp from 2l turbo. That is as well good point, if the engine doesn't have turbo.. then I would say it should have had it and extra 50hp would have done the trick for me.

Now where the sound came from is hard to say, electric engine, maybe E-CVT.. the fact it was not nice sound and not sporty. While making car produce power and at the same time to be economical is a challenge, making it sound good is really not that difficult. I mean 1l motorbikes can sound awesome, so saying there is no way to make 2.5 litter to at least sound good seems unreasonable for me. If Lexus don't know how to do it.. there is Yamaha as it was the case with LFA.

I completely agree with the choice of audio system, especially for demo car which one would expect to be fully loaded to impress. 6 speaker system should have never been available for Lexus and 10 speaker system must have been standard .. even if that would increase base price by few hundreds. As well I am sorry for insulting Fiesta owners... Fiesta has 10 speakers Sony system standard... so in fact better than Lexus RC.

In terms of acceleration... sadly that is not true. I have tried it several times and 2008 IS250 SE-L smokes RC300h F-sport from stand still (RC in Sport+ mode). I had my fried driving me to dealership and back in my IS250 and we did quite a few 0-30's and 0-40's. It is hard to measure acceleration from rolling starts, but again it would depend on what speed rolling stars you do and in which gear (in IS250), because IS250 is lighter and depending on situation might be more powerful i.e. 204hp vs. 181hp + variable power from electric engine. So IS250 not only feels and sounds more powerful, but in many cases actually is (and that is 10 years older car).

Next time I will try 200t, but I don't believe it would make any difference. I believe Lexus should have effortless acceleration, so you kind of press accelerator half way, engine barely start rumbling, but you think for yourself - "that is enough.. and I still have way power reserve left". I guess that can be partially achieved by making accelerator more sensitive, cheating driver in thinking that there are still power reserve, but I guess the only proper way of doing it is large volume v6 or v8.... aka RC350. I am not sure if that is right comparison, but for me low volume turbo engines are for "ricers", I had Passat CC 2.0t R-line (golf GTI 2.0 TSI engine 220hp, not offered in UK) and it felt awful and trashy as well and was exactly lacking that feeling of effortless acceleration, every time you press accelerator you fee like you pushing that engine to the limits - it is shouting and screaming, but car is barely moving. That is ok in Golf for boy racer, but not exactly suits heavy luxury cruiser.

One thing I didn't mention in my first post is the space in rear.. which is well... not existent. However, that is non-issue for me - I believe you kind of commit yourself for this when buying such good looking coupe. As well 60/40 split rear seats add a practicality twist. I believe Lexus put priorities in right place here - you have all nice things in front, nice driving position and complete adjustability and that whats matter. I would point out that adjustable leg support would be nice in F-Sport, but I didn't feel it being a big issue.

Rabbers · December 5, 2016

On 12/3/2016 at 5:07 PM, Linas.P said:

Just finished my 24h RC300h F-Sport test drive and though I share my opinion. .....etc., etc.

Linas: If I shared half the opinions in your review I would not only not have bought an RC300h but would also already be anxiously

consulting second-hand values with a view to getting rid of it. Seriously, though, I addressed many of the negatives in your review

to my own satisfaction before deciding to trade in my IS300h for the RC (see RC300h v. IS300h Part 1 & Part 2 threads in the IS300h

Forum).

I agree with Rayaan that your reason for saying the "engine sound is just awful" could lie in the ASC, which I myself leave permanently

switched off as I also did in the IS after coming to the conclusion that it is no more than a useless piece of acoustic bling. Personally

I like quietness in a car and, really, the only noise that annoys me in the RC, as it also did in the IS, comes from the tyres. Incidentally,

I have just switched to Pirelli Sottozero winters from the OEM Dunlop SportMaxx summer equivalents and, strangely enough, subject

to further evaluation after a bit of wear, they seem to be quieter. As regards noise at motorway speeds (130-160kmh), were I to close

my eyes (metaphorically speaking, of course), I would probably not know that I was not driving an IS even though I would hazard the

opinion that the RC is marginally more quiet because the mirrors deflect the wind better, perhaps as a consequence of their position

as much as their design.

While 8.6' might be considered "sluggish acceleration" to 100kmh from a standstill, the only negative bearing this may have on real life

is for anyone who enjoys racing away (and gulping fuel) at lights, especially if the neighbouring cars are BMW or Benz coupés (which are

pretty enough but as common as muck). As noted by Rayaan, mid-range acceleration is impressive and, in the absence of comparative

figures, probably at least the equal of most same-segment competitors. Nor do I quite understand the phrase "when you kick the pedal

nothing comes out". There certainly can be a noticeable albeit slight lag in throttle response in ECO and NORMAL modes, but if you

want lag-free acceleration, SPORT and SPORT+ modes deliver more than adequately, so much so that you may be forced to immediately

brake in order to get down to a regular speed after a quick piece of overtaking. I won't disagree that the number of drive modes could

well be reduced from four to three or even two, though switching between the four according to your preference at any given time is

hardly a complicated matter. As regards cornering, this is where I find the RC markedly superior to the IS as the combined result of

the adaptive dampers and a stiffer chassis - and in spite of the higher weight. I can exemplify this by my experience three or four times

every day with a couple of fast-approach 90° turns close to where I live, which, perhaps a little too daringly and usually feeling a need to

widen the angle, I used to take at around 65-70kmh in the IS but now take comfortably and with a feeling of complete stability at

75-80kmh or even more. That the steering is "light and uninformative" on motorways is not my experience. Quite the contrary, in

fact, although I have noticed that the relative firmness of the ride on slightly uneven and porous surfaces can give rise to fairly frequent

tiny directional adjustments especially if, like myself, you have developed the habit of keeping the wheel as still as possible on stretches

of straight road.

My version of the RC has Premium Navigation and the 10-speaker Pioneer audio as standard. The latter performs acceptably but lacks

the depth and power of an ML system, the latter being available as a stand-alone optional but with an unacceptably long waiting-time.

Yes, anyone who has had an ML system (as all my previous five Lexus's did) will miss it.

To cut a long story short, I have no regrets about having opted for an RC instead of another IS. I loved my IS but love the RC even more,

mainly - but certainly not only - because of its good looks.

NemesisUK · December 5, 2016

I think Rabbers sums up my views on the RC quite nicely. I would only add the RC's "Raison d'etre" was never to be a sports car but a grand tourer, a brief it carries off admirably, IMHO.

Zotto · December 5, 2016

In my long love story with Hybrid Lexus, I noticed that the difference is eCVT: there are no alternatives, love or hate it; if one loves to hear the engine revving up and down with gears changing and associates it with sport driving, eCVT is a torture, with that vacuum cleaner effect when running; if you like quietness and uniform ride eCVT is a reason to have a Hybrid Lexus.

Personally, I would never come back to a traditional car not hybrid, and I was surprised of all people that need to hear engine sound to feel to drive a race car, but it seems a common opinion that a sport car need a particular "sound". To put a patch to this need, Lexus introduced artificial sound generator to simulate roar, and this is fool

So, my suggestion is to enjoy silence, but if you need "sound", buy a traditional noisy car.

noby76 · December 5, 2016

not sure why most are expecting wonders from lexus the rc300h is a 4 cylinder engine not 6 so it would sound 'awful' if one is used to 6 or 8 cylinder sounds on take off. i found my 2.4 4 cylinder accord sounds a bit rough on low to mid cruising driving compared to my previous IS300 and my current GSV8. tends to quiet down after about 60mph +. any 4 cylinder engine would sound rough if you think the RC is bad try driving a 4 pot diesel. i also drove the IS300h and found that to be the case. it wont sound smooth like an IS250

Linas.P · December 5, 2016

I guess it boils down to the decision Lexus made in UK market - not introduce RC350 as it would not compete German rival anyway, but rather it's own siblings.. either taking sales from RC-F or from RC200t/300h... as it would exactly be the case with me. I have no appetite owning proper performance car with all it's drawbacks, neither I am happy with over sensible hybrid. That is again only my opinion, but for me Lexus is typical "sleeper" - understated looks, but had plenty of performance to smoke few kid from the traffic light if need would ever arise. RC300h is exactly opposite - it has great looks, which can be considered overstated (I personally love it), but has not much to show in terms of performance. 8.6s is the kind of acceleration where one could fall prey of £500 worth sub-compacts - simply not acceptable. Neither I agree it is comparable with competitors, similarly priced BMWs and MBs does 0-60 respectively 5.9s and 6.0s. Again Lexus US proudly states RC350 would do 5.6s and even offers direct comparisons to prove they are better..

Brilliant suspension and E-CVT transmission just exaggerates RC300h lack of power and always leaves me feeling ... "it would be brilliant car if it only had more power". I am pretty sure Lexus can have good 270hp from petrol engine alone would have they fitted it with turbo and it would have been enough to match those 6s of Germans and make a car which not only looks, but drives well.

I guess it is clear that MPG is not important for me - indeed car is very fuel efficient. You might guess I could be classed as one enjoying "gulping fuel" - not because if am careless, but because I want to have comfort of knowing that I could if I wanted to. Again all the described pros and cons makes a lot of sense in IS300h saloon, but good looking coupe should be more fun. I am not asking to drop RC300h from the options list, because certainly there are some people who only want looks and don't care about performance, my point is that Lexus does not address need for "drivers car" in UK aka "traditional noisy car".

All the other points I have already covered... 6-speaker system is nothing else, but Lexus falling short of any competitors, not to mention their own high standards. ML was always premium choice, but even my standard 13 speakers system in 2008 IS sounds far better. In terms of engine sound.. it is not electric car for one to enjoy silence and as it makes some noise anyway Lexus needed to make it nice, but instead they ruined it even more with "sound enhancement" - again simply cutting corners doesn't work. It is possible to make any engine sound good, even 1L, to say 2.4L engine cannot sound good is simply unreasonable. Obviously, ideal choice is v6/v8 engine, but I guess it is enough to cry about not being able to buy RC350 over here (in US they cry of not being able to buy RC300h).

Honestly, I kind of made up my mind anyway.. and it will be "wrong" choice. I should buy BMW430i M-Sport, much better car for my liking (if not overall), but as quite a few people around here I do appreciate rarity of Lexus and admire that striking looks. Some day I will get RC300h, though I will never be as happy in it as I would be in RC350.

I probably need to note that one of the intentions of my post was to stir-up some discussion and I would like to thank you for your opinions.

dazed · December 5, 2016

Linas - from what you've written I'm surprised you didn't go straight to the RC200t for your test drive. You sound a bit like me - the type of guy who's yet to won over by this whole hybrid malarkey.

Any chance of you begging another test drive and giving us a write up of the RC200t in your own inimitable style?

noby76 · December 5, 2016

i do agree 100% with you.. and i did mention this a few years ago when i test drove the gen 1 IS250 when i still had my IS300 and thought only if lexus offered an IS350 thats one of the reasons i went for the GS for more power when its needed. the thing with Lexus is they do not offer any middle ground 'performace' cars which are on par with competitors like the BMW 335i, 335d, Audi S4, Merc C350 and the likes in other words compact saloons/Coupes within the 280-350 bhp mark. i consider these as the middle ground performance cars not too expensive to insure, and run when compared to overkill performance cars like the ISF's, BMW M's and Audi RS's but yet powerful enough.

Lexus compact saloon/coupe cars range either offers an over kill performance car which would be bought by a few or sensible sporty cars which will be purchased by most but nothing for the middle ground man and i think they might be missing a market there. i can understand the market for RC350/IS350 wont be a lot in Europe but the few sales they make will still generate some revenue for them? or alternative just like they did with the gen1 IS200 supercharger, offer a turbo/ECU upgrade for the IS200t/rc200t or Battery pack upgrade for 300h buyers as a factory option which takes power to around 300-320 bhp so they grab the interest of both the sensible sporty car buyer and the middle ground performance car buyer.

I recon the RC200t will be more on par with the 430i there is almost 2 secs difference in 0-60 mph times between RC and the 430i but how often do we do 0-60? in gear accelerating will be more on par i recon.

Linas.P · December 5, 2016

I don't really need to beg for another test drive, though RC200t might be hard to come by. I did mention to sales manager in Woodford that RC300h is too sensible for me and I wish they would have RC350, tho which he answered - "nobody would buy them in UK", which I obviously followed with typical "I will". He said I should try RC200t, but straight away said they have none available. The problem is that I already know I am not going to like it... that is because 2L turbo will never sound or feel as good as 3.5 V6 (lesson I learned in 2.0t Passat CC - the worst car I have ever owned). Even more where RC300h has 2 sides e.g. it can be sensible and economical car, RC200t is downright wrong.. neither it has enough power to enjoy, nor it is economical.

One way or another I am not against hybrids, but they need to deliver.. and RC300h doesn't - so in that way I agree with the notion, if you cannot make it right, don't make it, stick with 3.5L V6, it is not like ones buys Lexus to save money anyway.

The reason I am saying one day I will buy RC300h, is that realistically 95% of time I will benefit from it's hybrid and economical drive. Whilst it is not the top priority on my list, I would still benefit from it, 5% of time I will be frustrated that 4 moneys in tatty £500 Clio sport smokes me at the traffic lights. True story by the way - while driving back to dealership on Saturday literally such thing smoked me (just bright blue with white stripes and huge ugly spoiler.. in much worse condition).

Reason 2, is that in ideal world I would own like RC350 + NX300h, one fun to drive excellent looking coupe and another sensible car to drive around, get stuck in London traffic without worrying about fuel economy, but realistically I am not going to afford both of them in next 3 years, so I will have a looks of RC and practicality of NX (kind of .. less rear seats). There is other option ...look for used IS-F + RX450h (2008-2011) for the price of one RC... time will show.

Reason 3, it is not like I am listening to engine sound that often, to be honest I drive with music on 90% of time and the only reason Demo car didn't pass was the cheap 6-speakers system... I just need to make sure I will get ML and sound problem solved. Obviously, there will be rare occasions where my phone is dead or I am just to lazy to plug it in and my IS250 accompany me with refined v6 rumble.. those moments will go, but maybe I can pay more attention to that LFA style dial.

I guess the reason why Lexus are so reluctant to give us middle ground is that most of the cars will cost almost the same to make, whilst RC-F profit margin is a lot higher, so even by selling 2x RC350 over one RC-F, Lexus would likely loose money. Not to mention that each model cost several millions to in terms of various formalities to legally sell in UK. So Lexus trying to bring in as little as possible types which they are sure will sell in good numbers, RC-F more as marketing statement or maybe for higher margins (but might even be loosing money on it).

Similarly, I agree that they could offer performance packages on existing models like mentioned by John - but that woudl likely account as separate model and would require to separate registration. I am not sure how it is different for German rivals (maybe being EU they are exempt), but they flood the market with 20 different engine options and can ultimately target much wider clientele.

Zotto · December 5, 2016

An answer for your need of better performance exists, and it is GS 450h.

Linas.P · December 5, 2016

Well GS is not exactly RC is it?.. unless they fit that set up in RC body... So RC450h please! I'm not denying Lexus has all necessary technology to make performance hybring, almost opposite - I am questioning why they didn't with RC platform in UK? When it comes to GS.. it is great car, but I don't want it, like I don't want IS even if they offer it as IS350 (as they do in US). So it is about package overall.

The point is, there are many cars which has better performance e.g. £500 Clio sport, but that is not a point, as the one disappearing from my sign in the picture below (Sport+ mode, accelerator fully depressed and I even started going first):

I like Lexus RC, but not the options Lexus offering. RC300h - just too slow, RC200t - still to slow and not even economical .. and then straight to RC-F... which I like - but it would be simply beyond unreasonable to own it as a single car.

NemesisUK · December 6, 2016

Why is the RC-F beyond reasonable to own as a single car?

Zotto · December 6, 2016

To me, seems unreasonable compare a Clio and a Lexus RC.

Linas.P · December 6, 2016

3 hours ago, NemesisUK said:

Why is the RC-F beyond reasonable to own as a single car?

Not practical e.g. too powerful for any road in UK, gulping fuel whenever you want it or not, if using as daily maintenance is expensive. Funny enough it might be option for me as well, because it is possible to get fully loaded 2015 RC-F for £40k (not like I would need ML in RC-F anyway), whilst if I tick all options I want on RC300h, it will easily get to £48k+ mark, RC-F even keep the value better.... So that might become an option one day. But again RC350 (I know enough of it...) would be much more like what I need.

1 hour ago, Zotto said:

To me, seems unreasonable compare a Clio and a Lexus RC.

Equally, I don't think comparing GS with RC is reasonable.. because that is completely different car. My point - it is about package, not about the power alone. The Clio becomes relevant here because Lexus RC300h lack of power is "insulting".

Zotto · December 6, 2016

So, go for a BMW.

Linas.P · December 6, 2016

Not sure what you want to achieve - What I am saying is that I want RC, but I don't like engine. I don't like BMW, GS, Clio or other car and my choice is either to get car I like, but with wrong engine or get wrong car altogether...

by the way, another topic about RC 200t from June, same conclusions, hence my expectation:

noby76 · December 6, 2016

import one from Japan. also thats clio might not be an ordinary 1.2 clio prob the 2.0 high revving sport versions

Rabbers · December 6, 2016

A good characterization of an enthusiastic RC300h owner (like me) that might also shed some light on the differences of

opinion contained in the present thread is to be found in a review on www.wheelworldreviews.co.uk by one David Hooper.

He writes, with considerable insight:

"You could be forgiven for thinking that a hybrid car and a sports coupe body aren't natural bedfellows, but when

you consider the average Lexus buyer, sports coupe or otherwise, is unlikely to be seen wearing reversed baseball

caps, then it starts to make more sense".......

Linas.P · December 6, 2016

Well I guess that the second intent of my post was - instead of pointing out to some online reviews (which everyone can access if they like) I wanted to give first person opinion of average driver, average Lexus owner, loyal Lexus customer, the opinion of somebody looking at upgrading IS250 and discovering various options from withing the brand he likes.

The insight above is very true... but as well it could be treated as insult. Isn't David Hooper suggesting that Lexus owners are old and boring? Therefore, I would like to add insight from unknown author:

"You could be forgiven for thinking that a hybrid car in a sports coupe body are naturally fast and powerful, but when you consider the

average Lexus buyer, sports coupe or otherwise, is unlikely to accept to be seen overtaken by somebody wearing reversed baseball cap in 20 year

old Clio, then it starts to make more sense".......

I guess it indicates shift in typical Lexus owner image. Historically, that was somebody old and boring, who appreciates refinement and quietness. Now Lexus quite clearly are targeting different audience... IS, RC, GS-F's as well as lesser CT, IS, RC F-Sport's are clearly targeted at younger people who can wear either golf cap or sometimes a tie. Though even in old... old people's days Lexus didn't let Clio and other bangers to overtake their Grand Tourers namely SC430. It was named as "the worst car of the century" by Top Gear due to the lack of sound and thrill, but it is one of the titles I genuinely disagree with.. as I quite like SC430. It is quiet, refined and has 4.3L V8 and does 0-60 in 6.2s.... really represents Lexus values for me.. especially that effortless acceleration which I have previously mentioned. I was semi-seriously thinking ... would RC body fit SC430 chassis?!

The next on the list is GS450h... the first luxury saloon to be hybrid, quite an achievement especially considering it does 0-60 in 5.2s. Is it quiet and refined.. sure yes! But is not there to be overtaken by anyone pleased.. or wearing reversed golf caps.

It would be fair to mention that RC is not replacement for SC as a Grand Tourer, it is rather sports coupe... now that is confusing, because Lexus says SC stands for "sports coupe", where SC was actually Grand Tourer and therefore correct naming should have been GT430. This can be clarified by looking to SC300/400 (made between 1991 and 2000) which was (wrongly) replaced with SC430 (as it was never like for like replacement), the old SC was the actual SC, but was replaced with GT. So in fact RC is replacement of old SC, but even then if we look at the numbers SC300 had acceleration of 6.8-7.2 and SC400 6.7-8.9 depending on the year ... anyway... my point is that 8.6 second in 2016 is shameful number and doesn't represent brand, competition or the market at which Lexus is aiming. RC stands for Radical Coupe... and the only thing radical about it .. is that it is radically slow.. Which kind of makes sense - "the sports coupe which is slow... radical decision isn't it?!.. hence radical coupe".

NemesisUK · December 6, 2016

6 hours ago, noby76 said:

import one from Japan. also thats clio might not be an ordinary 1.2 clio prob the 2.0 high revving sport versions

Aren't they all imported from Japan?

doog442 · December 6, 2016

8 hours ago, Linas.P said:

Not sure what you want to achieve - What I am saying is that I want RC, but I don't like engine. I don't like BMW, GS, Clio or other car and my choice is either to get car I like, but with wrong engine or get wrong car altogether...

by the way, another topic about RC 200t from June, same conclusions, hence my expectation:

Go for the RC -F then..

btw what's up with the RC 200t....?

Linas.P · December 6, 2016

I guess you can refer to original OP post to find out.....

I might go with RC-F and might not, if you have red what I said you would know why. I even mentioned that in my original post:

On 12/3/2016 at 4:07 PM, Linas.P said:

I can see quite few comments coming up now .. saying you know there is such a thing as RC-F... that is right.. if not Lexus selling RC350 in US - 3,5l, V6, 306hp, 8 speed direct shift transmission and 0-60 in 5.6s.. and starting from £36,700 .. ouch.

RC-F won't make RC300h/200t quicker or slower, nor less or more sensible. I am not asking anyone to help me to choose the car, quite opposite I am posting my experience with the car to help for other to choose theirs.

Fair enough it might be the case that somebody raises good point and I might change my opinion. Equally, for somebody reading this from the side.. they can look to my arguments.. to other people arguments and decide what is more important for them, which arguments are closer to their opinion and choose the car based on that... I guess obvious, that is purpose of any forum.

Linas.P · December 6, 2016

33 minutes ago, NemesisUK said:

Aren't they all imported from Japan?

Indeed they are made in Aichi plant on former LFA production line and hence all imported from Japan. However, the job of importing cars is dealers job not mine.. therefore I kind of feel right whining here about absence of RC350.. that is Lexus/Lexus dealers to blame.

7 hours ago, noby76 said:

...also thats clio might not be an ordinary 1.2 clio prob the 2.0 high revving sport versions

I have stated exactly that very explicitly (sorry the link no longer works - so use this one instead):

23 hours ago, Linas.P said:

5% of time I will be frustrated that 4 moneys in tatty £500 Clio sport smokes me at the traffic lights. True story by the way - while driving back to dealership on Saturday literally such thing smoked me (just bright blue with white stripes and huge ugly spoiler.. in much worse condition).

That Clio is 2.0l Sport, 7.1s 0-60, 137MPH top speed, so it would overtake RC300h in any conditions, from any speed.