2 Common Forum issues I've discovered

Malc1 · November 26, 2016

Guys, being on here more often these past two weeks and whiling away some of my twilight hours here in Delhi ............. the TWO major issues very common to the Lexus Forums seem to be

AIR SUSPENSION and

DPF OIL FILTER and diesel engines.

Essentially, Lexus probably should never have tried to develop a diesel engine

and for heaven's sake, the Air Suspension is a woe right across the different Lexus models and the cry that, " Oh for conventional springs !"

Us oldie Ls400 owners with conventional springs might well have the best of all worlds ..... the diesel oil filter issues throwing up those Christmas tree lights on the dash, pretty they might be but cheap they ain't

Just some thoughts

Malc1

The-Acre · November 26, 2016

I believe the air suspension issue is less common than it's made out to be. If it does need replacing the cost is around £950 to fit conventional springs. Given the low prices that the LS430 can be bought for, and the way preventative measures for other possible failures can be taken care of for relatively low cost, I think the LS430 eclipses the LS400. Earlier this year I went back to an LS400, and although it clearly has its merits, the LS430 is a beautifully engineered machine, which in my opinion is superior. I speak as someone who has owned three LS400's and two LS430's.

Just my thoughts.

steve2006 · November 26, 2016

Air suspension on Lexus cars is nothing new, the import model I had was on air and a 1994 model. According to the service records during it's lifetime it had the 2 rear struts replaced with new OEM replacements but not at the same time. All the height sensors and pump were original and the suspension worked fine

Other manufacturers had hydraulic systems like Citroen and even BL had the likes of Hydrogas.

Given the above my thoughts turn to build quality of the parts fitted to newer models, if an air suspension components can last 22 years why do we now have problems with them failing in half this time or less in some cases.

Another consideration is the present state of the roads... potholes will break conventional springs so it must be assumed that air suspension units are also subjected to the same abuse possibly resulting in premature failure.

As for the foray into diesel engines I believe this was purely a commercial attempt by Lexus to meet the market demands at the time when diesel was made out to be the future of combustion engines.

The-Acre · November 26, 2016

34 minutes ago, steve2006 said:

Air suspension on Lexus cars is nothing new, the import model I had was on air and a 1994 model. According to the service records during it's lifetime it had the 2 rear struts replaced with new OEM replacements but not at the same time. All the height sensors and pump were original and the suspension worked fine

Other manufacturers had hydraulic systems like Citroen and even BL had the likes of Hydrogas.

Given the above my thoughts turn to build quality of the parts fitted to newer models, if an air suspension components can last 22 years why do we now have problems with them failing in half this time or less in some cases.

Another consideration is the present state of the roads... potholes will break conventional springs so it must be assumed that air suspension units are also subjected to the same abuse possibly resulting in premature failure.

As for the foray into diesel engines I believe this was purely a commercial attempt by Lexus to meet the market demands at the time when diesel was made out to be the future of combustion engines.

I guess it's the same with all products, and at the risk of sounding like my parents, things really aren't made to last as they once were. However, car reliability has improved greatly, so has safety. Shame we can't have it all!

cruisermark · November 26, 2016

I agree with phil - the LS430 is a nice place to be in and for me especially during the last 3 weeks since i have ditched the Dunlops and had the Avons fitted - the car is even quiter and smoother. The air suspension risk is there but I am not really worried nor do i think of going back to the 400 becuase of this.

The LS430 is a big step forward - with the keyless entry, soft close doors (I close mine this way all the time), reverse camera and allround modern interior.

For me to be 100% happy with a car I like to have alot of repect for it - I have alot of respect for the 430 - sadly i do not feel same in any other car (probably never will) - even when driving a very modern bmw 5 series with a 25k price tag - just not the same!

The-Acre · November 26, 2016

1 hour ago, cruisermark said:

I agree with phil - the LS430 is a nice place to be in and for me especially during the last 3 weeks since i have ditched the Dunlops and had the Avons fitted - the car is even quiter and smoother. The air suspension risk is there but I am not really worried nor do i think of going back to the 400 becuase of this.

The LS430 is a big step forward - with the keyless entry, soft close doors (I close mine this way all the time), reverse camera and allround modern interior.

For me to be 100% happy with a car I like to have alot of repect for it - I have alot of respect for the 430 - sadly i do not feel same in any other car (probably never will) - even when driving a very modern bmw 5 series with a 25k price tag - just not the same!

The LS430 is also much safer with more air bags etc. When I insured my first LS430 I questioned why it was less than the 400, the reply was "because it's a safer car"

I still have a soft spot for the LS400 though. Someone round the corner from me has one, a late X reg in lovely condition, an impressive looking car.

PJD · November 26, 2016

2 hours ago, cruisermark said:

I agree with phil - the LS430 is a nice place to be in and for me especially during the last 3 weeks since i have ditched the Dunlops and had the Avons fitted - the car is even quiter and smoother. The air suspension risk is there but I am not really worried nor do i think of going back to the 400 becuase of this.

The LS430 is a big step forward - with the keyless entry, soft close doors (I close mine this way all the time), reverse camera and allround modern interior.

For me to be 100% happy with a car I like to have alot of repect for it - I have alot of respect for the 430 - sadly i do not feel same in any other car (probably never will) - even when driving a very modern bmw 5 series with a 25k price tag - just not the same!

I drove a friend's brand new BMW, M135i, - nice V6, twin turbo - brand new car, new car smell etc etc, - compared to my 12 year old dinosaur.

Anyway, it was a lovely car to drive, very "nippy", obviously, - but again, I wouldn't swap it for my LS430, - which is a much, much nicer place to be, - so much smoother.

If my air suspension failed, I wouldn't replace it with coilovers... I'd replace it with Air, - I love my air suspension, it's characteristic of the car

cruisermark · November 26, 2016

Me too! - definatley have a soft spot for the Mark 4 - if funds allowed I would buy a mint Mark 3 and Mark 4 just to tinker with at the weekends

Malc1 · November 26, 2016

I was just watching a Lexus comparison to a S320 Mercedes video on You Tube or somewhere today and they were both brand new 1995 cars ( Lexus N450PPJ .... and I can't do a DVLA/MOT check here in Delhi due to High Security and it being a Govt site ! ) and the upshot was that the earlier air suspension was no more comfortable than the springs on this latest model. ( I think that was the video I mentioned above, I've watched a few today ! )

Malc 1

mikeyv · November 26, 2016

Registration: N450PPJ

Make: LEXUS

Vehicle status	Not taxed
Tax status	Tax due: 01 March 2013
MOT status	Expired: 17 August 2012
First registered	30 November 1995
Year of manufacture	1995
Engine size	3969 cc
CO2 emissions	Not available
Fuel type	Petrol
Colour	Black
Vehicle type approval	Not available
Wheel plan	2 axle rigid body
Revenue weight	Not available
Tax exempt	No
Tax band	Not applicable
Tax - 12 months	£235.00
Tax - 6 months	£129.25
Tax - 12 months DD	£246.75
Tax - Monthly approx	£20.56
Tax - Single 12 month DD	£235.00
Tax - Single 6 month DD	£123.38

Tax prices shown are for a private car of the PLG (private or light goods vehicles) class with an engine size over 1549cc first registered before 1st March 2001 and not tax exempt (more than forty years old).

You can see tax prices for all vehicles on GOV.UK (PDF).

Tax prices effective from 1st April 2016.

MOT History

Registration: N450PPJ

Make: LEXUS

Model: LS400

Date first used: 30 November 1995

Fuel type: Petrol

Colour: Black

Test date	18 August 2011
Test result	Pass
Expiry date	17 August 2012
Mileage	114,981 miles
MOT test number	4595 1083 1242
Advisories	None

cruisermark · November 26, 2016

mmmmm its either scrapped or waiting in a garage somewhere for either Mike Brewer or Tim from Car SOS

Malc1 · November 26, 2016

does that mean it's under SORN do you think ?

Malc1

mine's 26th October 1995 ( I think ) I mentioned before that it was it's 21st birthday at the time

RgrWynne · November 30, 2016

I spoke to the independent Lexus service centre, Lex Tech, in Sheffield as mentioned on this forum. The owner tells me he has over 20 years experience at a main dealer, and was trained on Lexus. Can't confirm but he sounds like he knows what he is talking about and I plan to use him. I asked him about the air suspension on 430's and how prevalent were problems. He said in his opinion these problems were over stated, he was not aware of it being a big issue , and that most problems related to the sensors, which he was able to cheaply and easily deal with.

i have always taken the view that my car drives so beautifully, to replace it with a modern version would cost 'at least 'over £3k per year in depreciation alone, and I would be happy to spend that amount , which covers any suspension problems, and hopefully ....... happy days.

Of course I hope that day does not arrive yet and I have more mileage in current air suspension.

Happy motoring,

Roger

The-Acre · November 30, 2016

1 hour ago, RgrWynne said:

I spoke to the independent Lexus service centre, Lex Tech, in Sheffield as mentioned on this forum. The owner tells me he has over 20 years experience at a main dealer, and was trained on Lexus. Can't confirm but he sounds like he knows what he is talking about and I plan to use him. I asked him about the air suspension on 430's and how prevalent were problems. He said in his opinion these problems were over stated, he was not aware of it being a big issue , and that most problems related to the sensors, which he was able to cheaply and easily deal with.

i have always taken the view that my car drives so beautifully, to replace it with a modern version would cost 'at least 'over £3k per year in depreciation alone, and I would be happy to spend that amount , which covers any suspension problems, and hopefully ....... happy days.

Of course I hope that day does not arrive yet and I have more mileage in current air suspension.

Happy motoring,

Roger

On my last LS430 I had problems with the rear sensors, one was replaced but the other was easily taken apart, cleaned and resealed. So even if the sensors do play up they can very easily be taken off and repaired, it's generally only water damage where the seals fail. Maybe people are too quick to replace when repairs are possible and cheap.

Malc1 · December 1, 2016

quick quick ....... there's a guy on another forum here with a 2006 car air suspension problem ( not sure which forum, hope he reads this ) that's about to send his car to the scrapper because his have failed and the cost to sort out is far far greater than the value of his otherwise good car.

Maybe that's the fundamental problem with any needed repairs, the cost to do so on older cars does often outweigh the actual real value and the cars just never get fixed, and then end up scrapped.

Maybe that's why there are so few Ls400s left. Values dropped, cambelt and waterpump needed replacing and " bang " that was more than the value of the car ( to most people ).

Likewise a simple tiny insurance accident prang and wow, the car's a gonner

It's sad, but economics I'm afraid.

Malc 1

royoftherovers · December 1, 2016

"Maybe that's the fundamental problem with any needed repairs, the cost to do so on older cars does often outweigh the actual real value and the cars just never get fixed, and then end up scrapped."

I think that the comment above from Malc represents a common view,but it is not the view I and I believe others take.

I have a 14 year old MERCEDES which has covered 215,000 miles. It is in good condition mechanically and bodily and according to the market is worth nothing much at all.

To replace it on a like for like basis would cost in the region of £35,000. The real value to me therefore is the cost of replacement,which means that I can spend a good deal on necessary repairs to maintain it in its current condition and I would not therefore want to write it off sooner than what is necessary for me.

Of course it can be written off by an Insurance Company should I choose to make a claim or more likely should some other road user collide with me, but my fundamental point is that its value depends upon one`s perspective.

Regards

John

Scribe · December 1, 2016

If you run an old car you eventually reach the point where repairs cost more than the car's worth. Along the way you've probably decided not to repair or replace some non-essential things, e.g. body damage, because this doesn't affect the car's value much. But to me (someone who runs four old cars) this isn't necessarily the end of their life. If they're still running reasonably well you need to factor in depreciation (lack of) as well as how much you'd have to spend to buy something obviously better.

Honest John this week publishes a letter about a 2010, 45,000 mile Mercedes C180 that needs a new timing chain and tensioners - at £3,000. So even an expensive (to me) newer car can need a lot of money spending on it - while still depreciating.

Having said all this, I might think differently if my Lexus was an everyday car. And if I didn't have a good local indie mechanic to rely on.

The-Acre · December 1, 2016

It seems to me that these cars are worth what they are worth to you. I've seen yours, and I know it's good, and that you've had it for some time. For me it would be a no brainer spending money on it. I wouldn't feel the same about my previous Vectra or similar cars though. There really is something (almost irritating) about these big Lexus cars that gets under your skin!

Scribe · December 2, 2016

I think it's partly because an LS is much harder to replace than a Vectra! I'm sort of resigned to not being able to replace mine if anything happens to it (except with a 430). Meanwhile it runs as well as it did when I bought it six years ago, and I could probably still get what I paid for it.

Does anyone else on here wonder how much someone would have to offer them to part with their LS?

The-Acre · December 2, 2016

Make me an offer and I'll see if I can answer your question!!

royoftherovers · December 2, 2016

16 minutes ago, The-Acre said:

Make me an offer and I'll see if I can answer your question!!

It is not possible to buy the Soul of a pure man, Phil. ;););)

Regards

John

Malc1 · December 2, 2016

priceless ( one way or the other ) seriously though, the replacement cost new comes into it now ...... shall we start at US $ 69,139

( just looked up the price new of a Ls460 on google, in the USA I presume)

Malc1

Spacewagon52 · December 2, 2016

People spend a great deal of time and money keeping classic cars going. It is as Royoftherovers says

On 01/12/2016 at 10:16 AM, royoftherovers said:

"Maybe that's the fundamental problem with any needed repairs, the cost to do so on older cars does often outweigh the actual real value and the cars just never get fixed, and then end up scrapped."

I think that the comment above from Malc represents a common view,but it is not the view I and I believe others take.

I have a 14 year old MERCEDES which has covered 215,000 miles. It is in good condition mechanically and bodily and according to the market is worth nothing much at all.

To replace it on a like for like basis would cost in the region of £35,000. The real value to me therefore is the cost of replacement,which means that I can spend a good deal on necessary repairs to maintain it in its current condition and I would not therefore want to write it off sooner than what is necessary for me.

Of course it can be written off by an Insurance Company should I choose to make a claim or more likely should some other road user collide with me, but my fundamental point is that its value depends upon one`s perspective.

Regards

John

The value perspective is the main issue. You know in your heart when a car has "had its day" with you. I just can't imagine this happening with the LS400. Our problems come when we HAVE to replace it - accident damage beyond repair for example. What would I get? LS430 probably - 460? NO! I want to keep the 400 for as long as I can afford to run it! You are right (???) there is something very special about these cars which you just can't put your finger on ........ and other people say that they have no soul ...... humbug!

RgrWynne · December 2, 2016

I bought my LS 430 from somebody who bought an LS 460 as a replacement . He owns multiple cars, and said to me he wanted first refusal if I ever sold. On each MOT anniversary I ring him and tell him how good the car is .Each time he asks me to sell, he is not happy with the 460 even though it is a great car . So I have a buyer lined up but I could never replace a vehicle in which I have complete confidence.

There is mention here about large bills for mercs. They are fine cars and I am not running them down at all but I have noticed with German cars generally at a point in time they have expensive service items that tends not to happen on Japanese to the same extent. Just my observation.

I do think there is something that gets into your blood with Lexus,

plus we are probably all nuts !!!