Yet another engine oil topic...

Linas.P · November 23, 2016

I guess it is becoming annoying (sorry) but I ma creating another engine oil topic. I have looked around and I have not found any details on that currently in this forum. I have found one interesting (but very long) post at Lexus US forum.

Now I know this won't get answered here as the oil is kind of exact science, and to advise something outside of Lexus recommended 5w30 always going to be "do at your own risk". I am asking this question based on assumption that different conditions requires different oils. That is partially supported by Lexus (we know that some dealers uses 0w20, 0w30 in Scotland).

Now the situation I am going to describe will be a bit extreme, but that is exactly what I am planning to do in few weeks time, hence I am questioning if 5w30 is definitely the best option... So I will be doing some driving in Europe ~4000miles. First of all I am concerned about working temperature (w30 figure). There will be some Germany in the way, so assume 140MPH will be achieved. Then the weather temperature will reach -10C, hence cold start temperature becomes relevant (5w).

Now obviously 5w30 is overall the best oil for the engine (0w30 or even w20 if you in Scotland). But for 100miles bursts of 140MPH on autobahn I doubt w30 is thick enough, e.g. IS-F and other track cars uses 10w60... and that w60 is for exactly the same reason - added protection at high temps. So looking to this challenge alone during the summer I would probably choose 10w60... but it is winter.

Obviously, in -10C 5w becomes too thick at starts, and 10w even more so.. Ideally I would want 0w20 or 0w30 for winter conditions, but that is no good as discussed.

What I found is 0w40 fully synthetic Mobil 1 (very good price as well. http://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-68959-mobil-1-0w-40-new-life-fully-synthetic-engine-oil.aspx

No I am thinking that there is no way this oil can hurt the engine, it gives more protection for starts in cold and more protection for speed runs (applying same logic as Lexus Scotland.. just both ways).. I would doubt about it's life considering very wide band (a lot of additives) - but that is not an issue for me, because I will replace oil before and after the trip (so only ~3000 miles overall).

What you think guys, any opinions?

Zotto · November 23, 2016

You are too much worried. 0W-40 it' s more than your car needs, I would stay on oil recommended in your instruction manual (also for miles to change). A higher grade (50 or 60) could only give you a better protection at high revs and temperatures, worsening mpg; that's the reason why now Lexus uses 0W-20 especially with hybrid engines that work at lower temperatures. 0W ensures a faster lubrication at cold engine.

Linas.P · November 23, 2016

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Edited November 23, 2016 by Linas.P
double post

Linas.P · November 23, 2016

7 minutes ago, Zotto said:

You are too much worried. 0W-40 it' s more than your car needs, I would stay on oil recommended in your instruction manual (also for miles to change). A higher grade (50 or 60) could only give you a better protection at high revs and temperatures, worsening mpg; that's the reason why now Lexus uses 0W-20 especially with hybrid engines that work at lower temperatures. 0W ensures a faster lubrication at cold engine.

Well.. because I am expecting both extremes to happen, I want the thinnest oil for cold starts and the thickest for autobahn, but without impacting the first.

And just find it even cheaper https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mobil-New-Life-0W-40-Engine/dp/B004RG39GA

£36.60 instead of £34.99 + £4.99 (and have Prime so free next day delivery). That is far cheaper than price of 5w30 Magnatec which I normally use (maybe expect when I bought 4L for £21 during ASDA/Tesco discounts.

As well the topic I was referring to from Lexus US http://www.clublexus.com/forums/performance-and-maintenance/644401-facts-about-oil-and-what-grade-to-choose.html

Linas.P · November 23, 2016

Well.. I was too inpatient so ordered 5L from amazon + oil filter £41.38 all together. Going to get it replaced next week and will have ~ month driving on it before the trip, so at least if I blow my engine it's not going to be somewhere in the middle of the continent.

true blue · November 23, 2016

Hi ,I am sure you will not have any problems with the oil ,the only problem I see is 5 litres is not enough oil for your proposed oil and filter change ; I found I needed a little over 6 litres

Dave

is200 Newbie · November 23, 2016

With the speeds and conditions you are stating you will be driving to I would have expected to see more consideration to other areas of the car than just the oil

While I am in no doubt that the car can reach that speed, sustaining it for any length of time considering the oem setup of the car would be risky. Tyres, brakes, coolant I would have thought all come into play - not to mention a decrease in performance (MPG) through using the thicker oil and also consider recent work, if any has been done, involving any work around any of the engine seals.

It may be worth you resetting your ECU after the oil change so it can "learn" the new driving conditions.

Linas.P · November 24, 2016

1 hour ago, is200 Newbie said:

With the speeds and conditions you are stating you will be driving to I would have expected to see more consideration to other areas of the car than just the oil.

All good points, but that is completely different topic. Rotors, pads and brake fluid changed only 6k mile ago, coolant was replaced by dealership last year, recently had suspension inspected with no issues found (twice). Some countries requires winter tires, so will be fitted before the trip and 4 wheels alignment done. I know majority of winter tires are rated for only 130-140MPH so thought luck.. probably will have to replace them again when back. Regarding ECU I am not sure that will be anything new for it.... :)

As well being realistic 140MPH will be top speed, but average probably closer to 100... and that is not much more compared to few trips to Bath (on M4 from London). Except that Bath is just 2h away, whilst I am planning to drive for 8-9h straight.

Dave - that is true, it might need slightly more oil... Actually it states 6.3+0.4L, for some reason in my memory it was 5+0.4, so considering there is no way to completely drain all oil ... I was thinking it will be just right, but 1.7L is quite a lot. extra 2L on order.

Malc1 · November 24, 2016

Are you worrying too much about the oil ?

Maybe the Ls400 is completely different animal but I have no problems driving europe for say 6000 miles over a month in hot/cold/freezing temps, fast and slow roads, eating up the miles on the autoroutes and country mountain traversing ....... with zero worries about my semi-synthetic simple Wilko oil !

Italy springs to mind really, freezing in the north and the mountains, quite hot in the south and autoroutes to dash along before you come to a full stop and a diversion around a country mountain !

Enjoy your trip.

Malc 1

Verbout · November 25, 2016

50% off oil at ECP using "OIL50"

Linas.P · November 26, 2016

Thanks, thought Mobil 1 0w40 still works out at £36.13 even with discount code, so same price as amazon, except amazon does 24h delivery and not standard 3 days. But I am sure it is great way to save on standard 5w30.

Update on the topic:

Yesterday I have filled my car with 0w40, new K&N oil filter, did 30 miles and so far didn't blow my engine (as if it would be possible to know in 30 miles :D). Will report back after the trip. Was quite surprised with the colour of the oil - it was light yellow almost like sunflower oil (to be honest the way I imagine engine oil), compared to Magnatec it is much lighter colour - Magnatec is much darker as if partially used. I guess that is because Magnatec contains polymers which theoretically should fix the wear in the engine.

Linas.P · December 11, 2016

Update:

So after few weeks driving I have following results:

MPG down by ~0.5-2MPG (low from ~25 to 23, high from ~38 to 37.5), but that is very hard to measure, because weather got significantly colder, I have replaced tires and would say were doing a lot more city driving than normal. My expectation is that for the purpose I got the oil (~3000miles trip to continent) the difference in MPG will be insignificant.
Engine sounds healthier when cold, which is kind of expected because 0 is thinner than 5...
Engine warms up slower, not sure if that is related to the weather and stays colder, so engine temps instead of being dead 6 O'clock, no stays ~half 7 :) I guess that is good thing considering the change as mentioned was intended for long, high speed journey.

vette · December 12, 2016

Your high figure for your MPG, is still quite low in my opinion.

I have the 5w30 oil.

On my run to work and back, which is 21 miles each way, I sit on cruise with the tacho' on 2000 rpm, giving an indicated 68 MPH, which is 64 MPH on GPS.

I always seem to get pleasing MPG for the trip there and back, which is around 49 MPG.

But must take off 4 MPG for inaccurate onboard computer. so a reliable 45 MPG.

Linas.P · December 12, 2016

That depends on the travel you do, my best of 38MPG is achieved on London malaise... I am sure I can easily get in low 40s.. I think I have seen something like 43.1... But I never travel at speeds like 64MPH either.. more like flip 6 upside down.

vette · December 13, 2016

On 12/12/2016 at 1:09 PM, Linas.P said:

That depends on the travel you do, my best of 38MPG is achieved on London malaise... I am sure I can easily get in low 40s.. I think I have seen something like 43.1... But I never travel at speeds like 64MPH either.. more like flip 6 upside down.

Yes,

You are quite right, traffic congestion has such a massive bearing on consumption.

Lucky for me, my engine, and oil warms quite quick, as after just 1 mile, I am on the motorway doing 55 mph, for thew next 19 miles, where I have just another 1 mile of A road to work.

Linas.P · January 10, 2017

So far did over 3700miles on 0w40.. and here are few things I to note.

1. Fuel consumtion seems to be on average ~5% higher, but that is with winter tires, so very hard to say if this is anything to do with oil... kind of ruined this by using winter tires, but I guess it was worth it considering this was typical morning:

Overall, I was not that impressed with fuel economy (of the car). I wanted it to be in 40 range considering 3300 miles were done on motorway, but I need to be realistic ... It was rather cold, winter tires, 3/4 people inside + luggage, I roughly estimated that average speed over entire 3700 miles were 79MPH (that would be illegal in UK)... and long term fuel consumption doesn't look that bad taking all point in consideration. - So 35.2MPG, over 3799.8miles@79MPH

2. There is no typical oil burn I have on 5w30 Magnatec... after 3700miles oil level on dip stick is still exactly in the same place and I mean it hasn't moved even by 1mm. I have got liter top-up of Magnatec 5w30 just in case, but didn't need it (yes that is me.. topping up 0w40 with 5w30...)

3. Oil is clean as replaced yesterday (almost)... at least compared with Magnatec which gets quite dirty even after ~500 miles. Obviously, it can be related with engine flush which I did before replacing the oil... yes I know I failed to keep it systematic test again...

4. Engine turn very easily even at -17C... which isn't that surprising, but I feel it is marginally better than on regular 5w30.

5. Engine temperatures were very nice, never heating, no funny noises, no issues after running for extended periods at 130MPH (that is about 70miles in all, in 10-20 miles sprints). I was unable to reach paper 141MPH, but I guess that is to do with car being fully loaded, winter tires, cold weather... it was +3C when I was doing some top speed runs.

All in all it seems like upgrade from 5w30, overall better oil and it is actually cheaper (except that Magnatec is usually half price at Asda/Tesco). I hope that with summer tires fuel consumtion will be the same as with 5w30... and I might even continue using it.

Linas.P · February 7, 2017

Actually, I just realised in additions to points made above for at least 1,500miles I was using various ethanol mixes, E5, E10 and E25. I was not aware that car burns 30% more ethanol, so effectively depending on which particular mix I was using fuel consumtion was increased 1.5-7.5%. Hence it is quite possible 0w40 was at least as good in terms of fuel performance as 5w30 and considering all bad conditions (tires/temperature) might even was better.