MOT fail - rear subframe rot - gen 2 RX300

ChrisKaye · November 11, 2016

So MoT today for my 53 plate RX300 SE-L and it failed due to the above.

Will be assessing my options, any comments regarding repair options would be welcomed!

If you are considering applying Waxoyl or equivalent, you may want to pay attention to this area if yours is still good!

I would image this would also apply to RX400 owners too...

Thanks,

Chris

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steve2006 · November 11, 2016

Are you near the coast?

Seen some rough SC430s underneath, a member bought one and it was virtually unrepairable due to corrosion.

ChrisKaye · November 11, 2016

Yup south west coast all it's life!

Apparently MoT tester said it is possible to weld though (just caught up with the better half who took it in earlier for the test.)

I may try and source a second hand part from a breaker and hammerite it good and fit myself.... why do I get all these jobs in the winter?? Lol!

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ChrisKaye · November 11, 2016

The main point of my post is really a forewarning to other RX owners of a similar vintage as to what might be heading there way - foreword is forearmed....

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PCM · November 11, 2016

Sorry to hear, Chris.

Were there any advisories at the last MOT?

Hopefully it's fixable!

ChrisKaye · November 11, 2016

Don't worry Piers, it'll be fixable one way or t'other! ;)

No advisories regarding this issue on last MoT (although other items picked up last time, not mentioned this time!!) same tester as well!

The ironies are thricefold:

1) Winter is coming, which is why I got an RX in the first place to get me into work in rural Dorset - an RX with no MoT means rally crossing to work in my much older and tenfold less rusty MR2!

2) I'd finally finished refurbing the last 2 alloys which I had tyres in the garage ready to go on (still got it done today tho!)

3) Original exhaust and cat 13 years on and zero emissions problems! (Although rear exhaust hanger fell off last year due to rust and was 'fixed' with a heavy duty stainless steel style 'cable tie' to original mounting point!)

With air suspension spares tucked away in the garage, clean alloys, clean body work & interior and the knowledge the engine is still sweet as a nut with zero electronic issues (possible conversion to LPG as a new year project on the cards), there's still loads of life in the old girl yet! Bearing in mind I paid £4K for this car 2 years ago and have covered 20k miles, I think I can stretch to get this sorted and still have miles and miles of luxury cheap reliable motoring to come...

Compared to X5's, tourag's, cayenne's and ML Mercs etc, where I'd have no doubt oil leaks, failing gearboxes, dodgy electrics/electronics, higher insurance etc etc etc, the RX truly has not disappointed. Rust is somewhat inevitable in the U.K. and I can't blame the car for the environment taking it's toll on it after 13 years.

As other members have suggested it is worth undersealing the car to avoid this situation, no doubt I'll be doing that too if I end up sorting this out myself.

PCM · November 12, 2016

Good!

It's strange how these things creep up on us.

And sounds like you paid a fair price too.

Hopefully a little welding will sort it - I can't believe a good independent couldn't sort it?

( We need you and your motor here as well - you're such a guru on the RX front ! )

stringbender · November 13, 2016

On 11/11/2016 at 6:17 PM, ChrisKaye said:

22 hours ago, PCM said:

( We need you and your motor here as well - you're such a guru on the RX front ! )

Quote

I totally agree. Chris seems to know more than my Lexus garage ! It's only the air suspension that is worrying me about mine and I'm just beginning to think about PXing her. Wish Chris was looking for work !!

Alan

ChrisKaye · November 13, 2016

Hi all, thanks for the kind comments, I am in no way an expert but have learned through experience (trial and error), experiment and research.

I'd always intended to provide more write ups but having a family and a bit of an all consuming job put paid to a lot of good intentions!

This lot certainly keeps me busy tho!!

As you can tell, I'm a bit of a Toyota fan, seems to make sense to stick to one brand (warts and all) as tools, parts and procedures all fairly interchangeable - for example, the Celica shares a couple of parts in common with the Lex (oil filter, air filter and cabin filter, for example), plus all fluids and the same (coolant, oil, brake fluid etc) so makes things somewhat simpler...

Looking forward to getting a hybrid one day to further expand my knowledge as if I ever did change career from IT, I can see a gap in the local market for Hybrid technicians/electronics engineers - might even start my own business one day!

If anyone is local to Dorset and would like to pick someone else's brains on a problem or plug in to Techstream to read and set info on their vehicle, then always happy to oblige - just send me a message!

Very grateful for the forum too, as it's nice to share views, knowledge, comments and experiences, so thank you all for being a good bunch!

Thanks,

Chris

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ChrisKaye · November 13, 2016

To add to the original point of the post, I finally found the part number to shop for from the parts catalogues (not as easy as I thought it would be!)

The bit that's rusty n' crusty for me is 51206a - I have ascertained there has been two revisions of this part since 2003; a lot of places are saying you cannot order it new anymore and if you could, it's over 700 euros!!!

I found one or two used parts on eBay that look OK (I'd clean it up and spray any used part before fitting); I'd expect a used part to cost £200, give or take £50.

The other option is to have it patched by welding but the opposite side on the 'rear suspension crossmember' (the proper Toyota parts name) is also looking sorry for itself and only 6/12 months away from looking equally grotty. I think a patch would only be a very short term fix as the tin worm has truly set in on the rest of the part.

Also, I've not had great experience with welders around here, the blue MR2 is soon to be on it's 3rd welded sill repair - it just rots away in a couple of years over the weld job (although I'm sure this is more to do with the workmanship rather than the welding process).

As for cost, I'll ring around and see, but gut feeling is £150ish.

The only other consideration is how much work it would require to remove the crossmember from the car (need to get my head under & have a look!) - it may not be possible or safe to attempt this on the drive with limited vehicle support should hubs, axles, exhaust and diff have to be moved out of the way to gain clearance to remove the part and swap with a replacement.

Also thought needs to be given to bushes and rubber mounts that may get damaged by welding or swapping to a used part...

Oh well, in for a penny....!

Dread to think how much Mr Lexus might charge for this if everything was replaced with new bits and then labour...! Oooof...

chesterman · November 14, 2016

Bad news Chris and I too hope you get it sorted for less than an arm & a leg ! Age & environment take their toll on cars too!

With regard to Waxoyl etc. Many years ago when I was a young man, (and dinosaurs still ruled the earth,) I spent some time in Germany where the common practice was to take your car to the garage in the autumn and have the underside sprayed with old engine oil. This seemed to work reasonably well as a corrosion inhibitor and was both quick & cheap. Totally unacceptable nowadays of course for all sorts of health & environmental, ( & I am sure, commercial, ) reasons.

However, having briefly researched more modern under body treatments for my own RX when I first got it, I came to the conclusion that it was an expensive & time consuming option probably only worthwhile on a new or nearly new car where the corrosion had not yet set in. This is of course only the opinion which I formed. If other members have experiences to share I would certainly be interested.

ChrisKaye · November 14, 2016

Thanks for the reply, car booked in at a local welder who was recommended to us for a quote tomorrow, so we'll see!

I always spray and clean up parts before refitting when I have to take them off for repairs or servicing; for example I had to change the ATF cooler pipes recently as the factory fit one was lightly coated with a thin black paint and which after 10 years just disintegrated and the rust set in until pinholes formed and very slowly leaked ATF fluid making a mess of everything.

I've also stripped the front brakes and used electrolysis to great effect to de-rust them, then cleaned and sprayed them before refitting - certainly helped a treat on the corroded slide calliper pins which caused the break pads to wear into cheese shaped wedges!

Lastly when replacing 2 failed/leaky air struts (offside front & nearside rear), I thoroughly cleaned and respected the struts with hammerite as I suspect failure wasn't the rubber air bags themselves but the rusty failing apart metal they were suaged/crimped to...

So regardless how this is repaired, the part will be cleaned, de-rusted and painted as well as the underside of the car and any accessible areas I can get to while the part is off!

Maybe a bit OCD but I like to leave things In a better condition than I find them, especially considering the only real cost is my time.

PS - check out the air strut pics I posted and the nasty corrosion I found on my air strut thread - it'll scare the life out of you and almost have you questioning if it was deliberate to engineer the part to fail....!

Thanks,

Chris

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ChrisKaye · November 15, 2016

Wow, so first welding quote back in.... £450+VAT.....!!!

And just for the side with the hole and not the other side that almost has a hole.

For those rates, it's cheaper to by a brand new cross member from Lexus!!

Off to the breakers/eBay I go!

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ISJason · November 19, 2016

It might be worth mentioning that before my MOT at Lexus Birmingham I do usually get a pre-MOT inspection that I have a week or two before the actual MOT occurs , so maybe that is worth considering in the future.

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Malc1 · November 19, 2016

****, I feel for you having serious rust issues on such a recent car, I thought the Lexus marque was a bit above that ! What mileage are you at with this problem ?

My indie always takes my Lexus ( and my other cars ) to the MOT testing station personally to be there and understand exactly what any potential MOT issues might be from the Tester himself. This gives him the opportunity to maybe resolve instantly any simple issues and also to bring the car back the next day ( or sooner ) if it's something he has to achieve back at his workshop.

I get charged the full official 100% MOT price though BUT I'm not otherwise paying for his time in that attendance and I guess he only pays the normal Trade price of say 50% of retail MOT price. But I'm happy with that, it's a great personal service. He never charges extra, only for the annual service ( and any MOT work ) that follows the MOT.

Helps maybe make my cars possibly the lowest maintenance cost one's around.

Malc 1

ChrisKaye · November 19, 2016

Yeah, this one slipped past me as it wasn't picked up as an advisory last MoT and like the rest of us, I don't often slide underneath the car unless I have to!

Today's update for this issue is that quotes for a used part are coming back in, I've contacted 3 breakers via eBay and they have all replied that the cost is coming in at between £150-250, which is much more palatable!

Just waiting for photos to be sent over of each part so I can get the least corroded one sent.

I'd love to do a write up of this repair as when it comes to the RX there is not much info on the net regarding suspension issues.

Most owners aren't petrol heads like me and a few others on the forum and have better ways to spend their time than tinkering with cars!

It's nice to have info you can read up on and see parts and how they fit together - even if a mechanic or the dealer does all the work for you - this way you can visualise any problems you may have and corroborate any quotes you may get to see if you are being taken for a ride or not..

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Glover · November 20, 2016

Hi just on the subject of MoTs. If your Local Authority does MoT testing take it there. They don't repair cars so it doesn't bother them whether it's a pass or fail, they don't make any extra money out of failing cars. I know MoTs should be fair but I had a fried who did all his own repairs etc. and every year the garage would fail him on something that the average diyer wouldn't be aware of. I told him about the Local Authority; he didn't have a single fail once he started going there! I've had a multitude of cars since the early 80s when I first started using Local Authority test centres; only had two fails in all that time. I had a Passatt estate with a load adjuster spring for the rear brakes. Every year the MoT tester would free it up instead of failing it and tell me to spray WD40 on it. Needless to say I forgot every year!

ChrisKaye · November 25, 2016

Found supplier on eBay; £150 plus £25 delivery. Part looks good with very light surface rust in places so should clean up nicely with little effort.

Should be delivered today but no sign or word from the courier yet....

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PCM · November 26, 2016

19 hours ago, ChrisKaye said:

Found supplier on eBay; £150 plus £25 delivery. Part looks good with very light surface rust in places so should clean up nicely with little effort.

Should be delivered today but no sign or word from the courier yet....

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Happy days. Hope it gets better soon!

ChrisKaye · November 28, 2016

Replacement part has arrived in good condition, I'll post some updates soon.

Looks like a lot of bits will need to be unbolted to remove it (possibly the rear diff will need to be dropped a few inches).

Having a devil of a time locating any owner write ups for this sort of thing especially torque settings for putting things back together -eek- I may have to subscribe to Toyota/Lexus online repair manuals for a day or two to retrieve the info I need, so will keep you posted!

On a plus point, according to my 8 yr old, the car will float without any rear wheels and he reckons the job is easy enough with a couple of big screwdrivers and an electric drill, so happy days!! :)

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chesterman · November 28, 2016

A wonderful thing - the unquestioning faith of our children ! And often drives us to extraordinary achievements ! Good fortune. Ian.

PCM · January 7, 2017

On 28/11/2016 at 10:24 AM, ChrisKaye said:

Replacement part has arrived in good condition, I'll post some updates soon.

Looks like a lot of bits will need to be unbolted to remove it (possibly the rear diff will need to be dropped a few inches).

Having a devil of a time locating any owner write ups for this sort of thing especially torque settings for putting things back together -eek- I may have to subscribe to Toyota/Lexus online repair manuals for a day or two to retrieve the info I need, so will keep you posted!

On a plus point, according to my 8 yr old, the car will float without any rear wheels and he reckons the job is easy enough with a couple of big screwdrivers and an electric drill, so happy days!! :)

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Is all well now, Chris?

GSLV6 · January 7, 2017

Just come across this. Crikey Chris, I feel for you! That much rust on a subframe of a relatively recent motor is unexpected but I guess living its life by the coast has played a large part of that corrosion. Hope your new part sorts the issues for you and you're left with a solid car for many more years to come. How is the underpan out of interest? Is that treated/sealed in some way?

My last GS lived by the Severn Estuary most of its life and even at 8 years old, corrosion has set in on the engine block pulleys, the cross member supporting the radiator and various other steel pressings. I was pretty shocked when I found it, but cleaned it all up and just oiled up the parts and it never seemed to get any worse.

Luckily you're a handy chap with a spanner, and if as OCD as me, then I'm expecting that you'll have that RX in far better shape than when you bought it. Look forward to seeing the end results of your labours

PCM · January 25, 2017

On 28/11/2016 at 10:24 AM, ChrisKaye said:

Replacement part has arrived in good condition, I'll post some updates soon.

Looks like a lot of bits will need to be unbolted to remove it (possibly the rear diff will need to be dropped a few inches).

Having a devil of a time locating any owner write ups for this sort of thing especially torque settings for putting things back together -eek- I may have to subscribe to Toyota/Lexus online repair manuals for a day or two to retrieve the info I need, so will keep you posted!

On a plus point, according to my 8 yr old, the car will float without any rear wheels and he reckons the job is easy enough with a couple of big screwdrivers and an electric drill, so happy days!! :)

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