new discs, conflicting information out there

[harrylime]

I need new front discs and pads on my 400. I fitted new pagid pads less than 1000 miles ago and now need new discs and new pads. I'm pretty sure this was caused by a single episode of hard braking on the motorway, when someone kindly cut me up.. I have priced discs and pads from a dealer, who is trying hard to compete and has given trade price at £170 for the lot. My indie can get pagid for around £100. I have other jobs to do including suspension bushes, and  I may change the auxiliary belt, so could use the saving with pagid. My indie reckons he's never had a problem with Pagid and I trust his judgement,but the usual internet search gives conflicting views.

Eurocarparts have the sole rights to Pagid, and they will not say where they are made.I have heard that the ECP Pagid parts are made in China. The 400 is a big heavy car and I want the best available. I'm struggling to find out the excat spec of both oem and pagid, including where they are made (I thought products must have country of origin marked somewhere)

 

Is it worth the extra to fit OEM, Toyota stamped stuff? I would hate to pay the extra to find they are made in the same factory as Pagid

 

[Redsteve]

Hello Hugh,

I bought a set of front discs and pads for my 2000 LS400 in July from Eurocarparts. I paid £119 for brembo discs and pads delivered to the house. I think they worked out about £20 more expensive than the Pagid branded ones but brembo have a reputation of making top quality components so that is why I went for them.

They fitted perfectly and I can't fault the performance.

I hope this helps.

 

Steve.

[bullhorn]

I've used blueprint discs & pads always been ok-worth the bit extra.

[Tinonline]

 Always tough and I stopped fitting stuff here as pads are sqeals rich even though they are from a good name...they make different quality and specs for different distributors. 

Original Pads are ceramic. I do like Bembo as they are the dogs...but only from a reputable dealer...don't want seconds or knock offs.

Buy from the US for non brand but don't buy the cheapest.

i had squealing pads on a Renault, Porsche and avoided it on my Merc as my garage (indie) said they'd given up fitting brand x from a well known distie and bought brand x (same) from Merc same box but they didn't squeak and stopped peed off owners returning with complaints. My experience too. May have changed but...

Despite being a keen buyer, we can mistake the bargain for the piece of garbage it is. Given the life of Lexus genuine pads I reckon £80 is ok. With discs it is an "ouch" but they do last. 

It does depend and some non OE is better than OE. 

I fitted non OE cambelt and pulleys, water pump only to find the pulleys were same manufacturer (same quality? No idea). Next belt change I'll replace everything again anyway.

Pays the money and takes the choice.

[Verbout]

Always use pagid from ECP on all the families cars. Never had an issue.

You can get conflicting views about everything on Mother Earth if you believe everything written on the WWW.

[Cotswold Pete]

On 15/10/2016 at 0:59 PM, harrylime said:

I need new front discs and pads on my 400. I fitted new pagid pads less than 1000 miles ago and now need new discs and new pads. I'm pretty sure this was caused by a single episode of hard braking on the motorway, when someone kindly cut me up.. I have priced discs and pads from a dealer, who is trying hard to compete and has given trade price at £170 for the lot. My indie can get pagid for around £100. I have other jobs to do including suspension bushes, and  I may change the auxiliary belt, so could use the saving with pagid. My indie reckons he's never had a problem with Pagid and I trust his judgement,but the usual internet search gives conflicting views.

Eurocarparts have the sole rights to Pagid, and they will not say where they are made.I have heard that the ECP Pagid parts are made in China. The 400 is a big heavy car and I want the best available. I'm struggling to find out the excat spec of both oem and pagid, including where they are made (I thought products must have country of origin marked somewhere)

 

Is it worth the extra to fit OEM, Toyota stamped stuff? I would hate to pay the extra to find they are made in the same factory as Pagid

 

If it were me (and I have to get my front brakes looked at), I would go with Lexus parts if possible.  The original pads and disks last a heck of a long time, so in long run probably cheaper, though I might investigate brembo as Steve suggests, as previous experience of them has been good. 

[Verbout]

1 hour ago, Cotswold Pete said:

If it were me (and I have to get my front brakes looked at), I would go with Lexus parts if possible.  The original pads and disks last a heck of a long time, so in long run probably cheaper, though I might investigate Brembo as Steve suggests, as previous experience of them has been good. 

What other pads and discs are you comparing the Lexus parts to for longevity? 

[Cotswold Pete]

1 hour ago, Verbout said:

What other pads and discs are you comparing the Lexus parts to for longevity? 

Garry,

Just from experience of owning company cars over the years, and doing 70,000 miles a year, the wear on pads (and sometimes disks) seemed a heck of a lot quicker than ever experienced with both LS I have owned. 

It might be that I drive a lot slower than I did years ago, but where I live I end up doing a lot of braking and that seemed to eat through pads on my Omega (and VW) in the past.  Cannot recall what the manufacturer was - but not original parts on Omega.

I currently have blueprint pads which were fine for a while, but I now find they are inconsistent in the way they behave, and yet some people on this forum say blueprints are just fine, it does seem to me that different experiences even with same pads, so maybe down to manufacturing changes now and again.

I do wonder if the issue with the LS is that because it is such a well balanced and quite motor, any issues with brakes seem to get noticed more easily.  Not a problem with some of the heaps of metal I have driven over the years.

 

[keybasher2]

On ‎10‎/‎15‎/‎2016 at 10:31 PM, Verbout said:

Always use pagid from ECP on all the families cars. Never had an issue.

You can get conflicting views about everything on Mother Earth if you believe everything written on the WWW.

+1 for Pagid,been fine for 10k ish.

[Verbout]

3 hours ago, Cotswold Pete said:

Garry,

Just from experience of owning company cars over the years, and doing 70,000 miles a year, the wear on pads (and sometimes disks) seemed a heck of a lot quicker than ever experienced with both LS I have owned. 

It might be that I drive a lot slower than I did years ago, but where I live I end up doing a lot of braking and that seemed to eat through pads on my Omega (and VW) in the past.  Cannot recall what the manufacturer was - but not original parts on Omega.

I currently have blueprint pads which were fine for a while, but I now find they are inconsistent in the way they behave, and yet some people on this forum say blueprints are just fine, it does seem to me that different experiences even with same pads, so maybe down to manufacturing changes now and again.

I do wonder if the issue with the LS is that because it is such a well balanced and quite motor, any issues with brakes seem to get noticed more easily.  Not a problem with some of the heaps of metal I have driven over the years.

 

I sometimes think it's the way a lot of Lexus owners drive, I don't drive as fast in the Lexus as I did in my 159.

I waft along  sometimes finding I'm driving too slow and have to put my foot down.

[plastic orange]

Front discs really don't last too long no matter the make including oe. Last change I used pagid discs and ferodo pads and a big improvement over the blueprint ones which lasted 10k till start of slight vibration, to 20k couldn't put up with it any more, plus plenty squeal and dust.

 

Pete

[Cotswold Pete]

14 hours ago, plastic orange said:

Front discs really don't last too long no matter the make including oe. Last change I used pagid discs and ferodo pads and a big improvement over the blueprint ones which lasted 10k till start of slight vibration, to 20k couldn't put up with it any more, plus plenty squeal and dust.

 

Pete

Agree blueprint are fine to about 10K, I have kept mine in for about 30K now (just to see whether they ever got better) , at 10K they vibrated like nutters, by 20K they were bearable and at 30K they are just gently vibrating.  The one thing I have noticed is in colder weather they vibrate more, and clunk a little bit more on speed ramps, so assume the shoes shrink just that little bit more within the caliper (probably only a few thou difference in shrinkage) so they vibrate more in winter.

My mechanic said at 30K miles the pads are still only 25% worn, which tells me another 100K miles on them is going to drive me nuts.  As I only drive 10 miles to work I have lived with them, but time to get them out and replaced along with new discs.

[harrylime]

I decided on original front discs and pads from Lexus. I managed to get a good deal and there wasn't that much in it. The more I read about this the more confusing I became. If there had been a huge difference in price, I'd have gone for Pagid, and will probably use these on the rear as they do less work. On such a heavy car I wanted the best available and hopefully the longevity will recoup any additional cost. I may also try to alter my driving habits and not hold the car on the footbrake so much when stopped. This has always been the natural way to drive an automatic car to me, but some have said that this may contribute to the discs warping. I may now use the handbrake more than I have before, which should also help maintain free movement in the handbrake mechanism. While it's in I'm also having the brake fluid changed and all calipers checked for free movement of the pistons etc. 

I'm also having a couple of lower suspension bushes changed

Having read somewhere on the forum about someone's auxiliary belt snapping I checked mine. I've no doubt it's been on since new but it looked OK, although perhaps a little perished, with minute crazing /cracking. I think 17 years is enough so am having that changed as well. Expensive week but having driven my Octavia diesel for a while and then driven the Lexus through the rush hour to my Indie this morning, it reiterates why it's money well spent. It's only when you'v driven something mediocre for a while and get back in the Lexus that you appreciate what the LS is all about and why we rave about them.

[Verbout]

[Cotswold Pete]

1 hour ago, harrylime said:

 but some have said that this may contribute to the discs warping.

 

Read this link, discs do not warp even cheap nasty ones.  Vibration is caused by uneven deposits or something loose.

I suspect you could warp a disc by getting it red hot and  then banging it with a ruddy great hammer (but I usually have better  things to do when I am waiting at traffic lights)

The myth of warping

[Verbout]

2 hours ago, Cotswold Pete said:

Read this link, discs do not warp even cheap nasty ones.  Vibration is caused by uneven deposits or something loose.

I suspect you could warp a disc by getting it red hot and  then banging it with a ruddy great hammer (but I usually have better  things to do when I am waiting at traffic lights)

The myth of warping

Good article  

Cleanliness is the one of the most important things when replacing brake discs, I've done a few.

Clean the hub of dirt and rust before putting on a new disc and then clean again. Any rust or dirt can effect the disc running true.

As you Pete, I've never had a warped disc, worn discs yes, but never warped.

[harrylime]

I agree

I watched my indie replacing my discs this morning and he was scrupulous about cleaning everything. He is clearly more than aware because he was explaining to his apprentice why it is so important, outlining the reasons you have given. 

[plastic orange]

Well folks, I must be pretty unlucky with my Lexus and discs. It's the only car I've owned in over 40 years that requires them on a regular basis. Whether this be material build up that could be cured with a skim, or another problem I can't say. I'm meticulous about ensuring the mounting surfaces are super clean before fitting them too. Service history till my ownership (lexus till 120k) shows quite a few discs till then, and i'm on the 3rd pair since.

Vibration is cured instantly a new pair is fitted.

 

Pete

[doog442]

9 hours ago, harrylime said:

This has always been the natural way to drive an automatic car to me, but some have said that this may contribute to the discs warping. I may now use the handbrake more than I have before, which should also help maintain free movement in the handbrake mechanism.

Interesting post, My IS200t is my first auto and after a month I'm in no doubt at all at the mullering the front pads and discs are getting over any manual car I've owned. I guess your car is much heavier.

I tend to feather the brakes as have always been pad/ disc aware but this is a whole new ball game. Do I simply use N more often at lights to deter that forward motion and the impact on the front brakes ? 

[harrylime]

8 hours ago, Cotswold Pete said:

Read this link, discs do not warp even cheap nasty ones.  Vibration is caused by uneven deposits or something loose.

I suspect you could warp a disc by getting it red hot and  then banging it with a ruddy great hammer (but I usually have better  things to do when I am waiting at traffic lights)

The myth of warping

Having seen the thickness and weight of the new discs, that actually makes sense. It would take an incredible level of heat and or force to warp them, I would think. My old discs has some wear and there was a fair bit of corrosion, so worth doing. I couldn't see any obvious sign of material transferred to the surfaces