Next Purchase?

mpls · October 20, 2016

Merc 4 pot diesels with auto certainly has one of the loudest kickdown noise on motorways.

rayaans · October 20, 2016

10 hours ago, Slickk said:

Wow, you're quite the candid eagle aren't you? Anyone would think that I'm not entitled to have an opinion.

I wasn't berating the CT as a vehicle, I was just stating that it isn't to my taste - hence the 'no offence to CT owners.' I'm certain they're good folk with open minds, so they won't take it personally.

The C250 is under-powered, sounds like a Massey Ferguson at times and isn't as refined as the hybrid Lexus - the latter being a point which you've stressed on multiple occasions on this forum. Take it from me, we own a C250d (not personally, but a family member) and it's always left me feeling frustrated and yearning for more. Granted you can't use it in daily driving, just as you can't use the full power in your RX or even the IS. But that's applicable to nearly all motorised devices this side of a food blender or a smoothie maker or even a paper shredder - you get my gist.

I said I 'considered' a BMW 335d, which I would have bought if only it didn't have a diesel engine. The 340i may have a splendid engine, but it doesn't match the aesthetics of a 335d with the M Performance kit and wheels. The M3 is something I've considered, but even that has some issues that I'm not completely enamored with.

As for why I bought the IS300h, well, it was appealing at the time and the test drive was enough to convince me. But there's always a certain degree of what one can truly gauge from a short test drive. Had I known that I would have gotten bored of it so quickly, I never would have purchased it. At the time, the IS250 didn't particularly take my fancy, and the IS300h was the only alternative. As I stressed before, if an IS350 was readily available, we wouldn't be having this debate.

Apologies for hurting your Lexus affiliation, but the RC-F looks disproportionate and bulbous. Personally, I think it's a hideous looking vehicle and not one that will age gracefully. But hey, that's just my opinion - something which I am perfectly entitled to, and shouldn't make you feel the need to jump on the defensive Lexus bandwagon

What are you even on about?! So a C250d is underpowered? What world do you live in? We traded in a C220 CDI for the IS and it was hardly underpowered, the torque kicks you back into the seat, the C250d is a much more powerful engine and could be argued that its more useable in daily driving where 0-60mph doesnt matter. Bringing up refinement in this debate has no relevance, you clearly stated PERFORMANCE.

Again hypocritical - the BMW 340i and 335d are just engine choices, both can be had with whatever performance kit and wheels you want to stick on it.

Its very clear that you obviously don't research vehicles before buying them, hence stating "The 340i may have a splendid engine, but it doesn't match the aesthetics of a 335d with the M Performance kit and wheels". Any car guy knows that M Sport trim or M Performance parts are add ons to any engine choice you choose.

Appears you have a huge sense of buyers remorse, tell you what, just go sell the IS and buy another car and stop complaining about it. You don't see us on a Merc/Audi/BMW forum slating their products.

Slickk · October 21, 2016

13 hours ago, rayaans said:

What are you even on about?! So a C250d is underpowered? What world do you live in? We traded in a C220 CDI for the IS and it was hardly underpowered, the torque kicks you back into the seat, the C250d is a much more powerful engine and could be argued that its more useable in daily driving where 0-60mph doesnt matter. Bringing up refinement in this debate has no relevance, you clearly stated PERFORMANCE.

Again hypocritical - the BMW 340i and 335d are just engine choices, both can be had with whatever performance kit and wheels you want to stick on it.

Its very clear that you obviously don't research vehicles before buying them, hence stating "The 340i may have a splendid engine, but it doesn't match the aesthetics of a 335d with the M Performance kit and wheels". Any car guy knows that M Sport trim or M Performance parts are add ons to any engine choice you choose.

Appears you have a huge sense of buyers remorse, tell you what, just go sell the IS and buy another car and stop complaining about it. You don't see us on a Merc/Audi/BMW forum slating their products.

Uh-oh. As is often the case with some of your comments on this forum, it sounds like someone has a big bee under their bonnet. Let's just make you take a step off your high horse to understand the Lexus IS300h from someone else's perspective. A C250d is most certainly under-powered according to MY preferences. Not everyone is as easily pleased as you are. Just because it has a Lexus badge on the front/back, doesn't necessarily mean that it'll tick all the boxes. As it goes for your comment about buyer's remorse - well let's distance ourselves from your psychoanalysis lesson there, and having owned the car for over a year, I think it's safe to say that the concept of buyer's remorse is well and truly out of the equation.

''Its very clear that you obviously don't research vehicles before buying them'' ****! Very clear? What do you know about me and the way I go about my business and how I research/purchase vehicles? I actually research vehicles all too well prior to buying them, but as I said, it's difficult to gauge what a long-term prospect of living with one will be like during a 30 minute test drive. That W203 C220 you traded in? Comparing that to a modern day IS300h and Mercedes C250d is a pointless comparison - different cars from different eras, with very different purposes. Also, thanks for the ''tell you what, just go sell the IS and buy another car and stop complaining about it. You don't see us on a Merc/Audi/BMW forum slating their products.'' Isn't that one of the purposes of a forum? For owners to express their opinions, ask questions and just have a general chit chat about their particular cars with transparency. I've read far more positive/negative comments on forums relating to more expensive performance vehicles - RS4, M3, C63 AMG just to state a few, and other owners tend not to reply back with the same hostility. That's just how forums work! Plus, as a Lexus owner, I'm pretty much entitled to whatever opinion about the car I desire to express. I paid for the privilege and if I'm not happy with a purchase that I've made with my own money, then I'll state it. If I'm overjoyed with a purchase made with my own money, I'll state that too. Thanks for the unrequested tip though.

''Again hypocritical - the BMW 340i and 335d are just engine choices, both can be had with whatever performance kit and wheels you want to stick on it.'' I've yet to see a BMW 340i with the Performance Kit bolted onto it, I've even asked a few BMW garages about this and both have stated that it's not something they'll be looking to fit to a 340i. Maybe when I do see one, I'll consider the possibility of ownership, but until then, I think I'll stick to my guns.

Appears you have a huge reluctance to accept what other Lexus owners have to say about their own cars. You own an RX and an IS, judging by your comments on this forum - you worship the ground those two vehicles are parked on and good for you. I, on the other hand, don't feel the same way about my car, purely on the basis that it's disappointing driving experience, and I'm certain there are other people who fit into my category too.

Seriously though, you need to relax a little. People differ, opinions differ and perceptions differ. Nobody is right all the time. Let's just agree to disagree and move on.

ganzoom · October 21, 2016

@Slickk I wouldn't take anything said on forums as anything personal, people get emotional about their cars, especially when individuals who have been with a particular brand for a long time and you try to point out justifiable deficiencies in a product. It's a bit like the grief reaction.....I would say anyone who have moved on from the denial stage is starting to make progress to acceptance :). I fully agree with you, I love our IS300H as a comfortable way to get from A to B, but if you want more 'fun' / 'engagement' it falls way short due to the power delivery.

But a bit back on topic, the 3L turbo engine found in the 335i/340i cars are in my honest opinion the best it gets for combustion engines. My old 335i had the first generation of that engine and I cannot fault it, not very reliable, but very very good. Hardly any turbo lag, below 3-4K revs very quite, lots of torque even at below 2K, will return 35-40mpg if take things easy...But thrash the thing at near the red line it sounds amazing, above 3-4K there is no throttle lag at all, totally linear power delivery, oh and your talking about so much power/torque to make 265 section rear tyres loss grip in 3rd gear at speeds of 60mph+ if you go full throttle on anything but perfectly dry/flat asphalt, so you need to be awake to drive thing. There is good reason why as we approach 2017 BMW are still essentially using the block/turbo setup as back in 2006 when the first N54 unit was released. If your after a combustion powered sports saloon you cannot go wrong with a 340i, I would hope by now BMW has also sorted out all the reliability issues :).

If I wasn't so bitten by the EV bug I would find it hard to choose anything else but a 340i touring for my next car, that's despite my hatred of BMW dealers, and all the reliability issues I had with my previous 335i.

noby76 · October 21, 2016

@Slickk i can understand the novelty wearing off after a while and that's what makes us all human any reason why you opted for a Lexus IS300h in the first place? considering your budget could have purchased others cars which were more powerful? on paper a C250d is quicker has more top end speed (if you can use it) and gears instead of a CVT when compared to an IS300h. .

i personally think anything which can hit 60 mph in mid 6 secs and can do over 150 mph is quick which the C250d does...so to say it does not give good bang for its engine size and horsepower output is an understatement..i can understand ones performance gauge of a car is subject to cars which one has owned or driven in the past.

i had one as loan when my car went in for work done and although the 300h is not a quick car its in gear acceleration is better due to the instant torque delivered from the hybrid batteries but it wont make you go WOW.. so for the price at which you bought the IS you could indeed have bought nearly new cars with warranty like IS-F, EVO, STI, 330i, 330d, infinit G37, M3 BMW, older V10 M5 Audi S and RS's but you skipped all those and opted for the IS300h which is not a WOW car in terms of performance any reason why?

Bluesman · October 21, 2016

Please keep it friendly and polite boys.

Slickk · October 21, 2016

2 hours ago, noby76 said:

@Slickk i can understand the novelty wearing off after a while and that's what makes us all human any reason why you opted for a Lexus IS300h in the first place? considering your budget could have purchased others cars which were more powerful? on paper a C250d is quicker has more top end speed (if you can use it) and gears instead of a CVT when compared to an IS300h. .

i personally think anything which can hit 60 mph in mid 6 secs and can do over 150 mph is quick which the C250d does...so to say it does not give good bang for its engine size and horsepower output is an understatement..i can understand ones performance gauge of a car is subject to cars which one has owned or driven in the past.

i had one as loan when my car went in for work done and although the 300h is not a quick car its in gear acceleration is better due to the instant torque delivered from the hybrid batteries but it wont make you go WOW.. so for the price at which you bought the IS you could indeed have bought nearly new cars with warranty like IS-F, EVO, STI, 330i, 330d, infinit G37, M3 BMW, older V10 M5 Audi S and RS's but you skipped all those and opted for the IS300h which is not a WOW car in terms of performance any reason why?

At the time, I was running an RS4 saloon but I sold it as I was doing a lot of miles and I didn't really like the idea of putting xyz amount of miles on such a car. So I ended up selling it for a decent price and had an old IS200 Sport parked in the driveway from my university days. So, I brought that onto the road as my daily driver just until I bought something suitable to replace it. Once I started driving it, I realised that it's such a fun little car to drive - I didn't mind thrashing the straight 6 engine to have some fun, the 6-speed gearbox was still a joy and the rear-wheel handling was just a bonus. You could say that I had a mini-epiphany. I did some research on the new IS300h and most of the initial reviews were positive and portrayed it as a quirky vehicle. Plus, the aesthetics of it were really striking and very different from the competition.

I guess the looks were the main selling point for me, not to forget the mini-epiphany I just had with my previous Lexus. So I went out and bought one on a good deal before clearing the finance a month later, and it was good for a few months, I had some issues with it on a couple of occasions, but generally, it was quite an enjoyable experience. Now though, as I’ve got to know the intricacies of the IS300h, the novelty has well and truly worn off. I understand and appreciate the mechanics of the IS300h, but I don’t think I could ever get used to the CVT gearbox and hybrid system – it is simply not for me. I love the looks, I love the build quality, I love the interior, I love the gadgets, but I can firmly say ‘...been there, done that, bought the t-shirt.’ Without upsetting anyone, and going back to a previously point made in this very thread that @royoftherovers made ‘...say that as one grows older and more experienced one`s attitudes, requirements and priorities do change.’ I guess I bought the IS300h well before I reached that stage and solely based on the looks and exclusivity.

As miniscule as the demand for a 3.5 litre V6 is, if only Lexus brought a handful of the IS350s they sell in America – I would have been at the front of the queue for one.

Slickk · October 21, 2016

2 hours ago, Bluesman said:

Please keep it friendly and polite boys.

Exactly, everyone is entitled to have their say on their Lexus. Leave the snide remarks and hostility for the Mercedes forum.

Slickk · October 21, 2016

4 hours ago, ganzoom said:

@Slickk I wouldn't take anything said on forums as anything personal, people get emotional about their cars, especially when individuals who have been with a particular brand for a long time and you try to point out justifiable deficiencies in a product. It's a bit like the grief reaction.....I would say anyone who have moved on from the denial stage is starting to make progress to acceptance :). I fully agree with you, I love our IS300H as a comfortable way to get from A to B, but if you want more 'fun' / 'engagement' it falls way short due to the power delivery.

Glad someone else agrees with me on the lack of fun/engagement part; which is the biggest downfall of the IS300h. It's almost negated the 'wolf in sheep clothing' prophecy.

rayaans · October 21, 2016

On 21/10/2016 at 10:21 AM, Slickk said:

Uh-oh. As is often the case with some of your comments on this forum, it sounds like someone has a big bee under their bonnet. Let's just make you take a step off your high horse to understand the Lexus IS300h from someone else's perspective. A C250d is most certainly under-powered according to MY preferences. Not everyone is as easily pleased as you are. Just because it has a Lexus badge on the front/back, doesn't necessarily mean that it'll tick all the boxes. As it goes for your comment about buyer's remorse - well let's distance ourselves from your psychoanalysis lesson there, and having owned the car for over a year, I think it's safe to say that the concept of buyer's remorse is well and truly out of the equation.

''Its very clear that you obviously don't research vehicles before buying them'' ****! Very clear? What do you know about me and the way I go about my business and how I research/purchase vehicles? I actually research vehicles all too well prior to buying them, but as I said, it's difficult to gauge what a long-term prospect of living with one will be like during a 30 minute test drive. That W203 C220 you traded in? Comparing that to a modern day IS300h and Mercedes C250d is a pointless comparison - different cars from different eras, with very different purposes. Also, thanks for the ''tell you what, just go sell the IS and buy another car and stop complaining about it. You don't see us on a Merc/Audi/BMW forum slating their products.'' Isn't that one of the purposes of a forum? For owners to express their opinions, ask questions and just have a general chit chat about their particular cars with transparency. I've read far more positive/negative comments on forums relating to more expensive performance vehicles - RS4, M3, C63 AMG just to state a few, and other owners tend not to reply back with the same hostility. That's just how forums work! Plus, as a Lexus owner, I'm pretty much entitled to whatever opinion about the car I desire to express. I paid for the privilege and if I'm not happy with a purchase that I've made with my own money, then I'll state it. If I'm overjoyed with a purchase made with my own money, I'll state that too. Thanks for the unrequested tip though.

''Again hypocritical - the BMW 340i and 335d are just engine choices, both can be had with whatever performance kit and wheels you want to stick on it.'' I've yet to see a BMW 340i with the Performance Kit bolted onto it, I've even asked a few BMW garages about this and both have stated that it's not something they'll be looking to fit to a 340i. Maybe when I do see one, I'll consider the possibility of ownership, but until then, I think I'll stick to my guns.

Appears you have a huge reluctance to accept what other Lexus owners have to say about their own cars. You own an RX and an IS, judging by your comments on this forum - you worship the ground those two vehicles are parked on and good for you. I, on the other hand, don't feel the same way about my car, purely on the basis that it's disappointing driving experience, and I'm certain there are other people who fit into my category too.

Seriously though, you need to relax a little. People differ, opinions differ and perceptions differ. Nobody is right all the time. Let's just agree to disagree and move on.

But see you didn't state that it was underpowered to YOUR preferences. In your first post you just said its massively underpowered and again in your second post on the C250d said its underpowered again. Anyone reading that would think, heck, underpowered compared to what?! A Lambo? definitely. Compared to an IS300h? maybe not.

30 minute test drive? So you took 1 test drive and bought a car after that? Lexus consistently give out 24 hour test drives and no one is stopping you from test driving a car multiple times. Therefore from where I stand, it seems like you bought a car without actually testing it properly and then complain about its short comings. Its pretty obvious how a car drives in 30 minutes if you go well prepared and tell the salesman to shut up for a bit so the "disappointing driving experience" issue you have is caused by your own inability to test the car properly or go back to test it again to make sure.

My point isn't about expressing your opinion. Thats fine, and obviously Ive expressed my opinion in contrast to yours, I regularly do so on other sections of the this forum. The problem is you keep banging on about the same old issues but still own the car?! Like I said, if you don't like it no one on this forum is going to say you're opinion is wrong if you move to another brand but banging on about the issues you have with the car, yet still keeping it is a bit of an oxymoron.

I still stand firmly by the comments about the 340i and 335d. M Performance parts are just bolt ons and no dealer in his right mind is going to say no to a hand full of £££££. And a 20second autotrader search also brings up a 340i with m performance parts

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201608036440112?keywords=340i&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly New&onesearchad=New&model=3 SERIES&make=BMW&sort=price-desc&advertising-location=at_cars&radius=1500&postcode=wf177rs&page=2

marrat · October 21, 2016

2 hours ago, Slickk said:

Glad someone else agrees with me on the lack of fun/engagement part; which is the biggest downfall of the IS300h. It's almost negated the 'wolf in sheep clothing' prophecy.

Shouldn't that have been clear before purchase though? From reviews and user opinions it's clear the IS300h isn't actually a sports car. It's a comfortable cruiser with some sport aspirations. From your posts it seem you just bought the wrong car in this case.

ganzoom · October 21, 2016

45 minutes ago, marrat said:

Shouldn't that have been clear before purchase though? From reviews and user opinions it's clear the IS300h isn't actually a sports car. It's a comfortable cruiser with some sport aspirations. From your posts it seem you just bought the wrong car in this case.

Apart from the fact Lexus even use the word 'Sport' for the F 'Sport' trim. :)

But I agree the IS300H is excellent at eatting up the M-way miles whilst keeping you in comfort and returns better mpg than our old diesel Civic. It's just a case I wouldn't consider the IS300H to be an alternative to something like a 335/340i.

capese21 · October 21, 2016

Sport is just a trim level, so it looks sporty, LED fogs different alloys low profile tyres with a firmer suspension. It is not a sports car and who ever would buy one thinking it as an alternative to a 340i or M3. Engine & transmission same as all IS300H`s.

Ed

mpls · October 21, 2016

Merc C250d is a 4 cylinder 2 litre diesel that gets arround 200bhp ( certainly not underpowered , maybe the auto box is rubbish)

As mentoned the BMW 335d is a 3 litre diesel, how can someone compare th

4 minutes ago, capese21 said:

Sport is just a trim level, so it looks sporty, LED fogs different alloys low profile tyres with a firmer suspension. It is not a sports car and who ever would buy one thinking it as an alternative to a 340i or M3. Engine & transmission same as all IS300H`s.

Ed

Just like AMG line, M-sport, S-line

ganzoom · October 21, 2016

33 minutes ago, mpls said:

Just like AMG line, M-sport, S-line

All of which in my eyes are just total waste of money, personally i much rather have something which delivers substance before style. But sadly the vast majority of people are happy with all show but no go.

capese21 · October 21, 2016

19 minutes ago, ganzoom said:

All of which in my eyes are just total waste of money

Style is a waste of money is it? erm not sure I agree with you on that one.

People buy sports shoes not because they are athletes but because they look nice & are comfortable. I love the stylish look of the IS300H Fsport but didnt buy it to go round the Nuremberg. The IS300h does have "substance" in so far as it is well made drives well is comfortable & more than fast enough for the public highway.

ganzoom · October 22, 2016

6 hours ago, capese21 said:

People buy sports shoes not because they are athletes but because they look nice & are comfortable.

I don't buy trainers for how they look, nor do I wear trainers when I'm not doing something that doesn't involve breaking a sweat. We just have to agree to disagree on this one ;)

capese21 · October 22, 2016

f

ganzoom · October 22, 2016

^^ Sorry are those people suppose change my mind about when to wear trainers

...actually I'm not even sure who they are suppose to be, presumably some one famous??

capese21 · October 22, 2016

22 minutes ago, ganzoom said:

Sorry are those people suppose change my mind about when to wear trainers

No its not about you wearing trainers its about how something can look stylish & sporty but doesn't have to be super fast. Rosie Huntington-Whitely & Cara Delevingne two top models are pretty & stylish but doubt they can run particularly fast.

marrat · October 22, 2016

Well I don't need "substance" in the sense of more raw power, but I love style. That's why like the IS300. It's a comfortable car, but it looks like a sports car. Most sports cars have a huge lack of comfort and tech.

ganzoom · October 22, 2016

16 minutes ago, capese21 said:

No its not about you wearing trainers its about how something can look stylish & sporty but doesn't have to be super fast. Rosie Huntington-Whitely & Cara Delevingne two top models are pretty & stylish but doubt they can run particularly fast.

Well as you probably can work out I'm neither pretty or stylish. We all have different priorities in life, for me I've never got the point of fashion/style etc, and probably never will :).

dutchie01 · October 26, 2016

Talking about Tesla and toyota beeing left behind i think it is all about a solid businesscase or not. Beeing a a mainstream manufacturer the investment has to come back one way or the other. And of course toyota is heavily experimenting with all sorts of new technology it would be naive to think otherwise. If i think about Tesla i admire them in breaking open the automotive market but also think about taxpayers money. Grants and subsidies to develop and build the product and thesame to sell it. The entire EV market is heavily driven by interference from governments and even local councils. Here in Holland no vat, roadtax or in case of employee, no tax whatseever if a full EV is your companycar, driving is 100% gratis, for free! if you are a companyowner it even gets better with the above goodies and then grants and subsidies of thousands to purchase an EV. Oh, and did i mention free parking in innercities of free access to congestion lanes? Teslas are bought from a picture without testdrive for these reasons alone. The car is fast and silent but the build quality is average no match for lexus or audi. The reliability as well, many horrorstories about non functioning batterypacks or frozen touchscreens, in the latest reliability index from the US lexus is number one and Tesla is 26. I am convinced that if the fiscal framework surrounding Tesla is taken away the house of cards will collaps the same day. And that will happen as the amount of EVs on the road will increase and the burden to governments gets too high. so what will the price then be?

However the acceptance of EVs for the general public will come with all major manufacturers going for that market but until Toyota will find out it is a solid businesscase to start with 100% EV,s and it can be profitable i do not think they will jump in.

noby76 · October 26, 2016

not sure why most think toyota are late in EV developments. they were developing EV's back in 90's with the relese of the 97RAV4 EV. this is almost 20 years ago when tesla was not even born As i confirmed we are not there yet in terms of mass producing EV cars which might explain why Toyota have taken a back seat at the moment.

ganzoom · October 27, 2016

Its pretty clear what Lexus/Toyota think of EVs

But sadly for Toyota EV sales are only heading in one direction.

https://electrek.co/2016/10/17/electric-vehicle-sales-have-now-surpassed-500000-total-cars-in-the-us/

And whilst EV sales are constantly growing the same cannot be said for Lexus sales in the US. The longer Toyota/Lexus refuse to accept they have backed the wrong horse interms of wasting time and money on hydrogen, the sooner they can start to develop relevant products people want to buy, but for now its head in the sand apporach.

https://lexusenthusiast.com/2016/09/01/lexus-august-2016-sales-report/

You might remember a small company called Kodak, 'invented' the first digital camera, but apparently there was no future in that product;)

http://mashable.com/2012/01/20/kodak-digital-missteps/#ZWcVjW6VPkq4