Next Purchase?

tayaste · October 19, 2016

Probably, my next purchase.

Wallace · October 19, 2016

Am I the only person who has tested a BMW 330e and not been impressed by the "normal" auto box? The more I drive the IS with its CVT drone the more I dislike it.

rayaans · October 20, 2016

5 hours ago, doog442 said:

Likewise. I left because BMW produce fantastic petrol engines with performance to match at a price well below RC-F money. However I came back, the IS200t ticks most boxes for me now but if the IS350 was around I would never have left.

I always recall the mass of IS200's and the distinct rarity of the IS300 back in the day that kept prices of the latter to a premium.

I have absolutely no idea what Lexus are playing at - . There is no middle ground nowadays.

Now here is the issue:

1) Lexus dont sell anywhere near the amount of cars in the UK as BMW do

2) The general UK population buy cars based on numbers - and lets just say that those numbers are focused around mpg figures and tax

3) Huge diesel market in the UK (the government used to push diesel cars as cleaner, better etc etc). Although my slightly stupid theory relates around how the majority of cars in the UK are manual and petrol's are technically harder to drive i.e. they stall more easily so driving a diesel makes people feel like driving gods.

4) They'd maybe sell 10 IS350's in a year. Not really worth the effort. I dont think they've even sold many IS200t's

5) Even if you look at BMW, the number of petrol 320i/328i/335i/330i/340i are pretty much nothing compared to 320d/330d/335d

capese21 · October 20, 2016

On 13/10/2016 at 9:46 AM, DanD said:

I will stay with Lexus. I know the cars are not perfect,

No car is perfect but imho Lexus comes pretty close. A car which is built well and does not require visits to the dealer for warranty fixes helps.

I read other car forums and some of the faults on quite new cars is shocking. The forums are full of complaints about faults fixes & complaints. My previous IS and present GS have only ever seen the dealer for routine servicing.

Not sure what I will go for next. I dont think I could go back to diesel yet I want decent economy which narrows down the choice. Maybe a facelift GS F-sport or Premiere.

Ed

Slickk · October 20, 2016

14 hours ago, rayaans said:

Your posts sound a bit hypocritical. Yes the CT may not be to your taste but it has a function and owners tend to love it, hence the masses of owner reviews about it being so good. Its also due a refresh as it came out in 2011.

The C250d is hardly underpowered at 6.3s to 60. You can't use that in daily driving anyway and the torque should be enough. Still not fast enough, heck just get a C300 then.

You mention 335d but dont want a diesel, get a 340i then or an M3, job done.

You wont look twice at a Lexus RC-F but are happy to look twice at a BMW, Audi or Merc right? See what I mean about hypocritical? I question why you would get the IS300h in the first place if you're looking at cars which are much faster.

Wow, you're quite the candid eagle aren't you? Anyone would think that I'm not entitled to have an opinion.

I wasn't berating the CT as a vehicle, I was just stating that it isn't to my taste - hence the 'no offence to CT owners.' I'm certain they're good folk with open minds, so they won't take it personally.

The C250 is under-powered, sounds like a Massey Ferguson at times and isn't as refined as the hybrid Lexus - the latter being a point which you've stressed on multiple occasions on this forum. Take it from me, we own a C250d (not personally, but a family member) and it's always left me feeling frustrated and yearning for more. Granted you can't use it in daily driving, just as you can't use the full power in your RX or even the IS. But that's applicable to nearly all motorised devices this side of a food blender or a smoothie maker or even a paper shredder - you get my gist.

I said I 'considered' a BMW 335d, which I would have bought if only it didn't have a diesel engine. The 340i may have a splendid engine, but it doesn't match the aesthetics of a 335d with the M Performance kit and wheels. The M3 is something I've considered, but even that has some issues that I'm not completely enamored with.

As for why I bought the IS300h, well, it was appealing at the time and the test drive was enough to convince me. But there's always a certain degree of what one can truly gauge from a short test drive. Had I known that I would have gotten bored of it so quickly, I never would have purchased it. At the time, the IS250 didn't particularly take my fancy, and the IS300h was the only alternative. As I stressed before, if an IS350 was readily available, we wouldn't be having this debate.

Apologies for hurting your Lexus affiliation, but the RC-F looks disproportionate and bulbous. Personally, I think it's a hideous looking vehicle and not one that will age gracefully. But hey, that's just my opinion - something which I am perfectly entitled to, and shouldn't make you feel the need to jump on the defensive Lexus bandwagon

Slickk · October 20, 2016

11 hours ago, Wallace said:

Am I the only person who has tested a BMW 330e and not been impressed by the "normal" auto box? The more I drive the IS with its CVT drone the more I dislike it.

The CVT drone is just the worst thing ever. I appreciate the application and engineering of the CVT gearbox, but it ruins the driving experience of the IS. Others, such as @rayaans will naturally disagree with this, but I really dislike, even hate the damn thing.

capese21 · October 20, 2016

1 hour ago, Slickk said:

The CVT drone is just the worst thing ever.

The GS is a quiet more muted car than the IS so I don't notice the engine. It is not the CVT that makes the sound it is silent. if you are driving around all the time gunning it then agree to a point but a Lexus Hybrid isnt that kind of car. Saying that any diesel make more noise if driven like it to and the ones I have seen also belt out a cloud of soot as the turbo kicks in.

If I wanted to drive like a nutter I would have a petrol V6 and accept 20 mpg but I don't any more. Been there done that.

I traded my Fsport in because I found the suspension to hard but am loving the comfort of the GS and the 45 mpg.

Good luck finding a car that you like.

Ed

marrat · October 20, 2016

1 hour ago, Slickk said:

The CVT drone is just the worst thing ever. I appreciate the application and engineering of the CVT gearbox, but it ruins the driving experience of the IS. Others, such as @rayaans will naturally disagree with this, but I really dislike, even hate the damn thing.

The problem with the CVT drone is that you shouldn't be hearing it most of the time since the purpose of the ISh or the GSh isn't flooring the gas pedal. That's what irks me about some professional reviews, they race a IS300H for example on the race track and say it's average since you can't race with it. Every car has a particular purpose, if you want the fastest car available with a great throttle response, there are much better cars suited for that purpose. Even in a Prius or a CT you should rarely hear the drone if you drive it normally, and both have a lot less power and refinement than the IS. The IS is more about a relaxed drive with some sports aspirations, the CVT is perfect for that purpose.

My point is, if you want to fly off from every standstill, you probably bought the wrong car.

royoftherovers · October 20, 2016

14 minutes ago, marrat said:

The problem with the CVT drone is that you shouldn't be hearing it most of the time since the purpose of the ISh or the GSh isn't flooring the gas pedal. That's what irks me about some professional reviews, they race a IS300H for example on the race track and say it's average since you can't race with it. Every car has a particular purpose, if you want the fastest car available with a great throttle response, there are much better cars suited for that purpose. Even in a Prius or a CT you should rarely hear the drone if you drive it normally, and both have a lot less power and refinement than the IS. The IS is more about a relaxed drive with some sports aspirations, the CVT is perfect for that purpose.

My point is, if you want to fly off from every standstill, you probably bought the wrong car.

Well said Mr Mister, I could not have expressed it any better, except to say that as one grows older and more experienced one`s attitudes, requirements and priorities do change.

Regards

John

Slickk · October 20, 2016

5 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

Well said Mr Mister, I could not have expressed it any better, except to say that as one grows older and more experienced one`s attitudes, requirements and priorities do change.

Regards

John

I don't have a desire to fly off from every standstill, it's just occasionally when there's an opportunity to exploit and when you floor the throttle, that's when some of the shortfalls kick in. As I said, I appreciate the engineering, application and purpose of the CVT gearbox in the hybrid IS. Don't get me wrong, the IS300h is a lovely bit of kit - refined, luxurious, inexpensive to run/tax/insure and very smooth.

Personally, the novelty of the IS has worn off rather too quickly. You're absolutely correct - priorities, requirements and attitudes change, otherwise we'll all be driving around in the same generic box.

Slickk · October 20, 2016

24 minutes ago, marrat said:

The problem with the CVT drone is that you shouldn't be hearing it most of the time since the purpose of the ISh or the GSh isn't flooring the gas pedal. That's what irks me about some professional reviews, they race a IS300H for example on the race track and say it's average since you can't race with it. Every car has a particular purpose, if you want the fastest car available with a great throttle response, there are much better cars suited for that purpose. Even in a Prius or a CT you should rarely hear the drone if you drive it normally, and both have a lot less power and refinement than the IS. The IS is more about a relaxed drive with some sports aspirations, the CVT is perfect for that purpose.

My point is, if you want to fly off from every standstill, you probably bought the wrong car.

Professional reviews are designed to exploit the shortfalls of any daily driver. They almost always bypass everyday usage and skip straight to the speed/handling etc. The IS, even in F-Sport guise serves one purpose - driving gently and economically.

Wallace · October 20, 2016

" It is not the CVT that makes the sound it is silent"

What about when you are using the cruise control and you want to increase your speed as the vehicle in front has accelerated? When you push the CC lever up the engine races as if you had floored the accelerator and the noise increases with it, no way is this silent. IMHO.

capese21 · October 20, 2016

2 minutes ago, Slickk said:

The IS, even in F-Sport guise serves one purpose - driving gently and economically.

The Fsport has a excellent chassis with superb road holding though. It also very nippy out of junctions. It is also pretty fast mid range when you need good acceleration to join a motorway for example. Definitely not just about gentle driving and economy although it excels in these areas. The only complaint from some seems to be the engine noise as the CVT holds the revs. I regard that as a characteristic and preferable to diesel rattle blocked DPF Ad-Blue and pollution. At our previous address all diesels had to pay a hefty premium for a residents parking permit!!

capese21 · October 20, 2016

3 minutes ago, Wallace said:

What about when you are using the cruise control and you want to increase your speed as the vehicle in front has accelerated? When you push the CC lever up the engine races as if you had floored the accelerator and the noise increases with it, no way is this silent. IMHO.

That is the engine not the CVT. The CVT makes no noticeable noise.

marrat · October 20, 2016

11 minutes ago, Wallace said:

" It is not the CVT that makes the sound it is silent"

What about when you are using the cruise control and you want to increase your speed as the vehicle in front has accelerated? When you push the CC lever up the engine races as if you had floored the accelerator and the noise increases with it, no way is this silent. IMHO.

Since the acceleration of the IS is quite good when you're already at speed, a few seconds of engine revving should hardly be a problem. Doesn't a car with an ICE rev when you're accelerating?

To be clear, I;m not saying anyone is wrong or stupid for not liking the IS300h with its CVT. In my opinion, if you think the IS300h is revving too much with all of its engine refinement and power, it's the wrong car for you.

Wallace · October 20, 2016

OK so it's the tractor engine that makes the tractor noise. That's why we test drove a BMW 330e to see how a "geared" box works with in a hybrid car, no harsh noise and totally different cruise control use. My wife still wants an IS FSport next, so that's us for the next 3 years.

capese21 · October 20, 2016

9 minutes ago, marrat said:

Doesn't a car with an ICE rev when you're accelerating?

Yes and some cars have a sports exhaust fitted to emphasise engine sound!!

capese21 · October 20, 2016

On 20/10/2016 at 0:54 PM, Wallace said:

OK so it's the tractor engine that makes the tractor noise.

Lexus don't make a diesel so no tractor engines!! The BMW is a PHEV and once out of Battery, (25 miles?) needs a 2 to 3 hour charge. I prefer the seamless electric petrol mix of a non plug in Hybrid. I have not drove the BMW but surely if you accelerate hard you would hear the engine? You certainly do in standard petrol BMW`s.

Ed

noby76 · October 20, 2016

most keep forgetting the 300h's engine is still a 4 cylinder. 4 cylinder engine tends to be a bit more noisier than 6 or above cylinders when under load(acceleration). I dont read a lot of GS450h owners mentioning this drone noise due to the fact theirs is a 6 cylinder i guess..

mpls · October 20, 2016

On 18/10/2016 at 7:11 PM, C Mclean said:

But what are the warranty terms regarding loss of battery capacity. I would imagine that most manufacturers would repair/replace batteries if their capacity dropped below a specific number within a certain time frame.

Yes there are warranty terms on the Leaf, where it gurantees the number of active cells over 5 years. So you can have a variying number of actives cells ver that 5 year decaying at various rates depending on hot far you drive, how you charge it and how long youleave it between a drive. A situation can occurswhere someone who has a car coming up to 5 yar old actuvey wants his cells t die to a certain level so he can get his/her cr Battery replaced under warranty, otherwise the active cells will drop to probably usuable usage hence less range ( needed for longer driving), though probably ideal still for daily short commutes..

The point I'm making is, why should drivers have to worry about their batteries in terms of how it they charged ( fast or trcike, 100% or 80%), how long car is left between drives, which basically points towards everythig relating to range anxiety..

Studies on Li-ion batteries show that charging to 80% prolongs life of Battery over 100% charging, and that times periods of non usage also affects Battery life. I'm not sure if Tesla have minimised all to acceptable levels or have had to put in more batteries cels/packs to compensate, or pushed to the limit.

ganzoom · October 20, 2016

2 hours ago, capese21 said:

Lexus don't make a diesel so no tractor engines!! The BMW is a PHEV and once out of battery, (25 miles?) needs a 2 to 3 hour charge. I prefer the seamless electric petrol mix of a non plug in Hybrid. I have not drove the BMW but surely if you accelerate hard you would here the engine? You certainly do in standard petrol BMW`s.

Ed

It's not really the fact it makes a noise that annoys me, it's the type of noise the IS300H combustion engine makes when under load. 'Drone' is a kind way to describe it, it sounds like a 1.0L 3 cylinder unit that's at the red line about to blow a gasket. I cannot see how anyone can 'enjoy' the noise made by the IS300H when under hard acceleration.

ganzoom · October 20, 2016

1 hour ago, mpls said:

Yes there are warranty terms on the Leaf, where it gurantees the number of active cells over 5 years. So you can have a variying number of actives cells ver that 5 year decaying at various rates depending on hot far you drive, how you charge it and how long youleave it between a drive. A situation can occurswhere someone who has a car coming up to 5 yar old actuvey wants his cells t die to a certain level so he can get his/her cr battery replaced under warranty, otherwise the active cells will drop to probably usuable usage hence less range ( needed for longer driving), though probably ideal still for daily short commutes..

The point I'm making is, why should drivers have to worry about their batteries in terms of how it they charged ( fast or trcike, 100% or 80%), how long car is left between drives, which basically points towards everythig relating to range anxiety..

Studies on Li-ion batteries show that charging to 80% prolongs life of battery over 100% charging, and that times periods of non usage also affects battery life. I'm not sure if Tesla have minimised all to acceptable levels or have had to put in more batteries cels/packs to compensate, or pushed to the limit.

The best way to maximise Battery life is to actually charge to 50%, and than drain down to 0%. The US military have done a study showing this....But who cares about Battery life, I just found out our next car due Feb 2017 comes with the hardware needed for Level 5 autonomous driving. Basically once the software is perfected, and the boring legal bits done, our car will be able to do this. This isn't a one off tech demo, it's tech which is going to be the car we be driving around in soon!!......Some one needs to tell Tesla to stop brining the future to the present day .

I cannot believe I'm lucky enough to be alive to witness the transformation of the automobile to the next level of automation

mpls · October 20, 2016

20 minutes ago, ganzoom said:

The best way to maximise battery life is to actually charge to 50%, and than drain down to 0%. The US military have done a study showing this....But who cares about battery life, I just found out our next car due Feb 2017 comes with the hardware needed for Level 5 autonomous driving. Basically once the software is perfected, and the boring legal bits done, our car will be able to do this. This isn't a one off tech demo, it's tech which is going to be the car we be driving around in soon!!......Some one needs to tell Tesla to stop brining the future to the present day .

I cannot believe I'm lucky enough to be alive to witness the transformation of the automobile to the next level of automation

I was going to say 50% ( this is true), but 80% is more practical for people ( in a leaf anyway). So buy a car with say 120-130 miles range but charge it to 50% for 60-65 range for longevity of Battery.. hmmm...

Autopilot ? Tesla is truing cars into an expensive appliance

capese21 · October 20, 2016

44 minutes ago, ganzoom said:

I cannot see how anyone can 'enjoy' the noise made by the IS300H when under hard acceleration.

I doubt anyone enjoys listening to an engine revving do they?? Unless it is a V8. Still a nicer sound than any diesel and silent once the desired speed is reached. Most of my journeys seem to be on smart motorways at 60 mph with speed cameras watching or crawling along in traffic jams

ganzoom · October 20, 2016

41 minutes ago, mpls said:

I was going to say 50% ( this is true), but 80% is more practical for people ( in a leaf anyway). So buy a car with say 120-130 miles range but charge it to 50% for 60-65 range for longevity of battery.. hmmm...

Autopilot ? Tesla is truing cars into an expensive appliance

Real life Battery degradation on all the current EVs have been much lower than expected. I charge my Leaf to 100% every time, often leave it plugged in even when 100% full - which is almost as bad a leaving the pack totally dead, in 11K miles I honestly cannot say the range has changed at all.

Data points provided by Tesla owners show an average loss of charge capacity at 23 miles after 100K miles, bare in mind Tesla's have 200miles+ range.

http://www.teslacentral.com/worried-about-tesla-battery-degradation-its-23-miles-every-100000-driven

This one particular owner used their car as a Taxi, daily charged to 100%, 6% loss in charge capacity in 200K. So charging to 100% daily and than using the Battery charge fully may not be that bad for the Battery at all.

https://eideard.com/2016/10/03/tesla-taxi-crossing-200000-miles-maintenance-costs-battery-life-impressive/