Caveat for potential Lexus LS 400 owners. You have been warned !

[harrylime]

I wrote this in response to my previous post, and then realised that I had gone off at a tangent, so decided on a separate post.

I am in a position in which I can afford a really nice new car but having been out of the market for a few years, and driven a few new cars recently, they seem to have moved backwards. This after many years of not being able to afford a nice new car, having wasted most of my money on children etc.

These newish cars seem unrefined, don't ride particularly well, a spare wheel is unheard of (expensive insanity in my view), and research (of which I do a lot), uncovers what seem to be relatively common horror stories of dpfs, egrs, dmfs, gearbox failures, turbo failures, diesel contaminating oil and increasing oil content to destructive levels and so on. I'm talking about cars that include some that cost 30 grand upwards. I have considered various petrol engines, but they are not available in many models and come with their own issues including failed turbos, coil packs, stretched timing chains etc.

The last car that was as satisfying as my 400 was my 1989 Audi 90 5 cylinder. It was a wonderful car, with a briliant engine. It was incredibly well engineered and lovely to drive. I wish I could find a mint example, I would abandon my search for a newish car. My daughter just paid just over 2 grand for a 2003 vw beetle convertible with around 50 k on the clock,, a full vw history and a set of winter tyres. I'm starting to think that buying new or even newish is insanity,unless it is something very special.

Some of the new smaller petrol engines seem brilliant, with incredible power for their size -including the vw / audi 1.4 tsi 150bhp, but ever increasing fuel pressures, turbos and superchargers strapped to a small, highly stressed engine do not seem to me to be a recipe for a long and reliable life (the opposite approach taken by the LS 400 of a large , unstressed engine). I suspect that many of these little time bombs will be kept for three years only, for fear of ruinous repair bills when problems start to surface (as they already have).

So here is a caveat for potential Lexus LS 400 owners. Seriously, Don't, on any account, buy one, because you will probably never find a satisfactory replacement, and will be doomed to spend the rest of your motoring life regretting the one you sold, and cursing the car you currently drive, because it fails to live up. This is my quandary in deciding whether to sell my Mk 4

[ambermarine]

Hugh

Amazing coincidence, I also had a five pot J reg Audi ninety with low profile tyres on alloy wheels that  I have never seen bettered and a super smooth engine.

I bought it at 4 years old for 9K   it was red and a 2.2  version ,when I came to change 2 years later the new shaped jelly mould Audi had been launched and the Audi dealership offered me only 3K . In 96 I went to Devon to see my Daughter and on a curiosity looking for the replacement to the Audi I called in what was then Templeton Motors in Barnstaple they offered me 6k in part ex on what was to become my first Lexus LS400. Needless to say it was the best deal I  ever did.

The owner specialized in seeking  out cars for people and obviously had a buyer for the Audi but the purchase and  sale of the Lexus was speculative as there were not a lot about then.

And to reinforce your point 18 years later when looking for a replacement for my Mark 1 I spent months researching nothing but Lexus cars to replace it, being able to afford any one of them in the LS range I opted for the one I have as I do not think it as been bettered. I have said this before, It is the best car LEXUS have ever built as an all round example of a Luxury Saloon.

I have a friend who visited me today to show me his new Jaguar 2.2 diesel which he as taken on in part exchange for his similar range Mercedes which he bought 4 years ago when I bought my second LS400 for that famous £2750.

He as just dropped 14k on the Merc buying a second hand Jag for 25k and he stood in front of my LS400 and lamented on how much he had lost and how much I had gained .

Again this reinforces all the values of owning  a Lexus LS400 and keeping hold of it ,without doubt they are an investment.

[Chris Skelton]

Agree totally. Plus, you missed off 'lack of character', a hard to define characteristic.

I sold my Ser 4, 5+ years ago, and have spent a lot of those years, dithering about wondering what next to get. I'd have 'downsized' (to a 1.5 Smart Forfour, maybe - plastic body, bit of style) but we already own a dented but solid Micra (the rounded/Nissan engine one that seems bullet-proof) so thought something bigger might suit.

Only Saab has appealed, despite some poor comments.

With my long Citroen history....... now I'm driving  (the last ever produced!) a 2000 Citroen XM 3 litre car. Looks good, drives well (42K miles, perfect service record!)

If the LS had LOOKED better, I might have kept it. (Wish Nissan had combined with Citroen! the C6 with Lexus build quality?

So.....don't sell your Ser 4; keep it going, invest in it!

[Spacewagon52]

I could not agree more, regarding these small 1.2 turbo engines - like my friend's Peugeot 308 - economy yes.... but for how long? 

Personally I have still not squared the circle regarding buying a newish car or one that is in very good condition but older. Reliability is my major concern, so the newer the better? BUT ...... if I spend £12,000 on a car and it goes pear shaped, I have the potential to lose a great deal of money on repairs because the car is too valuable to scrap.

Buying a car for £3,000 and spending another £1,000 on "repairs" would leave me with £8,000 "spare"

If the repairs are too expensive, i.e. more than half the cost of the car - then you have lost £3,000.

I work on a basis of £1,000 a year depreciation if possible - on my newer cars it has been more like £1500. You can only work out your depreciation when you get rid of the car. If the £3,000 car lasts three years - then it owes me nothing. A £1,000 car only has to last a year!

It is LUCK to win at the cost / benefit car game, but great fun playing it!

Does this make sense to anyone?

[Malc]

yes for sure ....  my now 188k miles  Ls400 cost me £1400  5+ years and 65k miles ago, cost very little in repairs , mainly just the one single UCA at £250 15 months ago and then tyres and a Battery and servicing, oil and filters, wiper rubbers and a headlamp bulb about £6  ..................  depreciation, well, zero,  maybe it's worth that £1400 still eh !  BUT worth a great deal more to me.

( from an ex car dealer , me ) Buy and keep the car you really really want and forget the " need " to part with loadsa dosh from time to time in the pursuit of total imperfection  .......  hang on to your Ls400, it's money in the bank 

Malc

[Colin M]

Like everyone who has commented above, I would say keep your LS400. You will lose little or nothing in depreciation, the cars are very reliable and there will not be any massive bills (unless you are unlucky), and they are great cars to run and drive.

[harrylime]

4 hours ago, ambermarine said:

Hugh

Amazing coincidence, I also had a five pot J reg Audi ninety with low profile tyres on alloy wheels that  I have never seen bettered and a super smooth engine.

I bought it at 4 years old for 9K   it was red and a 2.2  version ,when I came to change 2 years later the new shaped jelly mould Audi had been launched and the Audi dealership offered me only 3K . In 96 I went to Devon to see my Daughter and on a curiosity looking for the replacement to the Audi I called in what was then Templeton Motors in Barnstaple they offered me 6k in part ex on what was to become my first Lexus LS400. Needless to say it was the best deal I  ever did.

The owner specialized in seeking  out cars for people and obviously had a buyer for the Audi but the purchase and  sale of the Lexus was speculative as there were not a lot about then.

And to reinforce your point 18 years later when looking for a replacement for my Mark 1 I spent months researching nothing but Lexus cars to replace it, being able to afford any one of them in the LS range I opted for the one I have as I do not think it as been bettered. I have said this before, It is the best car LEXUS have ever built as an all round example of a Luxury Saloon.

I have a friend who visited me today to show me his new Jaguar 2.2 diesel which he as taken on in part exchange for his similar range Mercedes which he bought 4 years a when I bought my second LS400 for that famous £2750.

He as just dropped 14k on the Merc buying a second hand Jag for 25k and he stood in front of my LS400 and lamented on how much he had lost and how much I had gained .

Again this reinforces all the values of owning  a Lexus LS400 and keeping hold of it ,without doubt they are an investment.

My Audi was also the 2.2 KV engine, it was a peach. The coincidences continue because I paid 2750 for my LS 400, around 3 years although I have spent a bit this year upgrading it with some paintwork etc I am a big Jag fan and have a MK 2 awaiting restoration when I get around to it. I have had a new XF 3.0 Portfolio (disappointing), but would not buy a 2.2 litre Jag. May as well have a Mondeo as an engine like that misses the point, in my humble opinion..

Regarding my 400, I checked the MOT history on my car the other day. It had an advisory for brake pads last year , all pads were replaced. It has failed the MOT once in the last ten years. The cause was a blown bulb. It passed first time again yesterday.

[Colin M]

All the more reason, Hugh, to keep the LS400 and then you can easily justify spending the money you have saved by not buying a newer car on restoring your Mk2 Jag!!

[Spacewagon52]

Yes keep the LS!

 

But........................................ if you were to choose another model of a cheap car ........... what would go for chaps?

 

I have considered the Honda Legend in the past? But it would probably an RX Lexus.

[Chasdad]

Ive sold the ls400 i bought from someone one here last month im delivering it sunday . Its done over 200k and still drives well. 

Drove the old girl and am wondering if i done the right thing. On the subject of the knew breed of high power small engines.  Ive read of a few of the ecoboost engines failing at 30k

[mrdoofa]

I'm not a fan of these high power tiny engines. I think it's much better to have a large unstressed motor rather than a tiny one constantly working it's balls off. I've had my fair share of problems with modern diseasels. A Diesel engine used to mean economy, reliability and we're as tough as old boots that just keep going and going. Now they are plagued with issues like EGR problems, DMF problems, DPF problems, injector problems, turbo problems to name a few. Only the EGR is relatively cheap, the rest are 4 figure repair bills and at the end of the day it still drives and sounds like Massey ferguson no matter how good it is or how much you spend on it.

My mk4 is 17 years young with 164k on the clock and still feels right and tight with everything working as it should. Nothing even comes close to this car in my opinion, I just hope it still has lots of life left in it (I'm confident it has) because whatever replaces when the day eventually comes will be a downgrade. Perhaps a facelift LS430 would replace it one day.

[Gorodish]

I wish I'd not sold mine.... nothing else compares. 430s are too worrisome. Will be back in the fold soon when the right one comes up.

[Chasdad]

I thought the one you sold me was the right one tom😊

[Gorodish]

It was and I would have had it back if it was not such short notice. In retrospect, a big mistake selling, but hey...

[Cotswold Pete]

An LS is like being addicted to caffeine, it makes you feel good, you can give it up, but life will never be the same again.

Having a modern frugal fuel beast is like having too many pints of Stella, you never know when things might get nasty

[moonraker58]

I have a 2000 Mk 4 Ls 400 which is without doubt the best car I have ever driven. My mechanic,who I respect hugely, ( He does a lot of Cosworths and builds 1/4 size Traction engines from scratch as a hobby!) is of the opinion that all modern cars are crap. They are full of electronic and plastic bits that are designed to fail  and after 5 years are not cost effective.

He reckons that you are better off buying a Classic and rebuilding it properly and running it as a day to day motor and it will cost you a lot less.

He has one customer who has spent 30k on his Cosworth,whose wife gave him the Ultimatum,"Its me or that car!"

He is now happily divorced!

[The-Acre]

Ford are now producing a 1 litre Focus.  My Volvo has the tried and tested 5 pot diesel which is a tough engine, if not a bit dated, but they are dropping it, in fact they are dropping diesels altogether with the biggest engine being a 2 litre petrol with some producing 215 bhp. On Monday I drove a diesel Jag, it was awful.  Someone was admiring my LS yesterday, asking me "is it a 3 litre?"  I get a real kick out of saying 4.3 and hearing the gasp!  I checked the oil yesterday, clear and light gold, and everything still works as it should.  Not bad for a fifteen year old.  I wonder how many 1 litre 15 year old Focus's we'll be seeing in the future.

[Tinonline]

The LS400 might not be a looker, but in the driver's seat it can't fail to impress. You get used to the so called 'lack of feel steering' and if minded, you can chuck it around and pull enough G to scare off all but the new fast fad cars (like the Ford ST - actually not a bad motor...but a Lexus it aint).

In my humble, prices have or are about to bottom out, just watch the values start to climb.

We'll first see it in the Trade £7,999 ono tags and it will be "a lot of car for the money." 430 prices will be pushed up too. 

What can you replace it with? A Merc? No thanks, Jag? I'm a Jag owner/nut - not until they make a car that is reliably built with good quality parts...oh never mind it'll never compare to a 400 however fab it looks. Beemer? Over rated and over priced. Disregard anything from year 2000 - 2010 with an auto ZF gearbox whatever vehicle manufacturer. I'm not a fan of diesel although I gather it's very good in trucks and trains.   

Did you know? Jag use same coil on plug manufacturer as Lexus. I haven't read of any need to replace coils through intermittent misfire issues on the LS. Both my XKR and S type needed new coils: the Jag forum was full of 'I have a misfire when warm 50 mph plus'...coils. Funny that.

It seems a lot of LS cars are being scrapped when there is still life in them.  

What next? 460 for me. Please tell me it's a cracker...

 

 

 

 

[Chasdad]

Its funny but when i had this xjr everyone was thats a lovely jag thats a proper car. I had it a month. Didnt hate it but its not a patch on a ls. I always felt a big bill was looming too

[Titch LS]

I wanted one of those great looking Jags until I compared forums and that made me plum for an LS. Glad I did too. Nothing has actually gone wrong on the LS for the last 5 years and that's on a 16 year old car.  Still think Jags are good looking cars though.

[Spacewagon52]

30 minutes ago, Titch LS said:

I wanted one of those great looking Jags until I compared forums and that made me plum for an LS. Glad I did too. Nothing has actually gone wrong on the LS for the last 5 years and that's on a 16 year old car.  Still think Jags are good looking cars though.

They are good looking cars but the boots are not as big as an LS.

[Tinonline]

Are you sure? LS boot is small S type is big my Alfa 155 amazing. That Jag has that ZF failure gearbox and suspension needs sorting every 20-30k miles. 4.2 engine though is dogs b's.

[The-Acre]

On 23/09/2016 at 7:17 PM, Chasdad said:

Its funny but when i had this xjr everyone was thats a lovely jag thats a proper car. I had it a month. Didnt hate it but its not a patch on a ls. I always felt a big bill was looming too

I drove one of those back from Yorkshire for someone earlier in the year, a nice drive but just as I got back the suspension warning light came on, and it had air. A friend who deals and repairs them buys them for absolute peanuts. An impressive looking car.

[Spacewagon52]

Do not agree with S type having a bigger boot. My friend had one and struggled to put his luggage for a holiday in it. Easily fitted into my LS - not sure how you come to that conclusion?

The height is no where near as good as the LS.

[Chasdad]

 i prefer the look of the xjr to the 430. but inside theres no comparison. the jag was flipping quick though if not a bit twitchy in the wet