gs450h buying second hand hybrid battery, any advice?

[carnut1980]

I am looking to buy a used but low mileage HV Battery unit, to take apart, and swap most/all my current cells with .My gs450h has done over 300k and although it drives fine, i do keep getting the p0a7f code showing. I can clear it, but it usually comes back every 2-3 days. I do understand that, like with any rechargeable batteries, they lose their ability to hold charge over time/miles. The engine will always cut in and charge, but i feel i could be getting a little more power/economy, and indeed, more battery/less engine usage with general driving. My question is this:

The prius/Auris/CT200h 1.8 all use the same cells, in a smaller Battery unit (28 units instead of 40 on mine) Does the IS300 also use the same, and how many cells in that one? part number 

G9280-76010

I have already had my HV Battery apart twice, so i know what i'm doing. I also have the techstream software. All cells show over 8v, but overall Battery is 51%, so could be far better, and no doubt this explains why i keep getting that fault code.

One or two sellers do the gs450h unit, so would save me taking mine apart fully, just swapping over, but it obviously costs more, and the mileages are higher. Some of the 1.8 units only have 30k on them

Also, some units are in latvia or lithuania. Has anyone ever had an issue with customs, and had to pay a hefty fee?

Thanks in advance guys/girls

[Shahpor]

Sorry about going slightly off topic, but did you say your gs450h has over 300,000 miles on it?

[OldTrout]

Have you tried http://www.hybridbatterysolutions.co.uk?

I'm interested in the 300k miles too.

[Diesel Do Nicely Brian]

I can vouch for the breakers in Lithuania as I have had a good few bits from them, including a boot trim, carpet mats and was looking at a full headlight assembly.

Quick delivery, well packaged, and good communications.  The one I used was DTV but there is also one called GTV.  DTV tended to be cheaper, sent good pictures of the parts and in the car they came from (all UK cars).

Brian.

[Britprius]

9 hours ago, carnut1980 said:

I am looking to buy a used but low mileage HV battery unit, to take apart, and swap most/all my current cells with .My gs450h has done over 300k and although it drives fine, i do keep getting the p0a7f code showing. I can clear it, but it usually comes back every 2-3 days. I do understand that, like with any rechargeable batteries, they lose their ability to hold charge over time/miles. The engine will always cut in and charge, but i feel i could be getting a little more power/economy, and indeed, more battery/less engine usage with general driving. My question is this:

The prius/Auris/CT200h 1.8 all use the same cells, in a smaller battery unit (28 units instead of 40 on mine) Does the IS300 also use the same, and how many cells in that one? part number 

G9280-76010

I have already had my HV battery apart twice, so i know what i'm doing. I also have the techstream software. All cells show over 8v, but overall battery is 51%, so could be far better, and no doubt this explains why i keep getting that fault code.

One or two sellers do the gs450h unit, so would save me taking mine apart fully, just swapping over, but it obviously costs more, and the mileages are higher. Some of the 1.8 units only have 30k on them

Also, some units are in latvia or lithuania. Has anyone ever had an issue with customs, and had to pay a hefty fee?

Thanks in advance guys/girls

The level of charge shown in Techstream will only ever be in the region of 40-80% depending on the number, and color of the charge bars shown on the MFD display screen. The important numbers to look at are the module pair voltages, and the internal resistances. The voltages should not differ more than about 0.005 volts. The resistances of the module pairs should also be the same as close as possible reading around 0.023 ohms. 

[carnut1980]

12 hours ago, Diesel Do Nicely Brian said:

I can vouch for the breakers in Lithuania as I have had a good few bits from them, including a boot trim, carpet mats and was looking at a full headlight assembly.

Quick delivery, well packaged, and good communications.  The one I used was DTV but there is also one called GTV.  DTV tended to be cheaper, sent good pictures of the parts and in the car they came from (all UK cars).

Brian.

Yes i have had some small items from lithuania and latvia, but would something the size and weight of a hybrid Battery assembly, likely produce any issues with customs?

[carnut1980]

17 hours ago, Shahpor said:

Sorry about going slightly off topic, but did you say your gs450h has over 300,000 miles on it?

yep, 322k, 07 plate, serviced every 3 months by lexus, for the past 5 years ,so the best part of 30 main dealer service stamps

[carnut1980]

16 hours ago, OldTrout said:

Have you tried http://www.hybridbatterysolutions.co.uk?

I'm interested in the 300k miles too.

yep 322k, yes i messaged that guy on eBay, thing is hes over 100 miles away, he did say to 'bring it and he would have a look', but its not really of any use to me. He would need the car for several days, so i am looking at almost 500 miles all in, being without a car for a week, and no real guarantee his refurb would help on a car with this mileage. I think my best bet is to replace most, or all the cells, with much lower mileage ones

[Diesel Do Nicely Brian]

7 minutes ago, carnut1980 said:

Yes i have had some small items from lithuania and latvia, but would something the size and weight of a hybrid battery assembly, likely produce any issues with customs?

Indeed it would - you pay VAT plus an import charge and an £8 parcel force handling charge for anything over £16 (£32 for a gift) technically - sometimes gets hit and other times missed.

The shipping would also be a bit hefty (they use DPD to ship anytime I have bought from them).

There may be some cars at breakers in the UK - not sure the best way to find them, but some must get scrapped and written off...

[carnut1980]

Just now, Diesel Do Nicely Brian said:

Indeed it would - you pay VAT plus an import charge and an £8 parcel force handling charge for anything over £16 (£32 for a gift) technically - sometimes gets hit and other times missed.

The shipping would also be a bit hefty (they use DPD to ship anytime I have bought from them).

There may be some cars at breakers in the UK - not sure the best way to find them, but some must get scrapped and written off...

Yes thats what  i thought. 

A breaker in lithuania can do gs450h Battery with 130k for £850 all in, but doesnt take into account anything customs decide to do.

He can also do a very low mileage prius 1.8 unit (28 cells) for £500, again not taking into account what customs do, and if customs add VAT, then it sounds like the Battery would never actually make it to me, i would get a surcharge card/email, and would have to pick up that heavy thing from wherever, and pay the charges.

Might be better off biting the bullet and buy the 1.8 unit from UK for £750, or i can get a low mile gs450h unit for £1000, exchange (presumably i am meant to swap it over while i am on site), then the seller can sell my own high mileage unit , or indeed each cell individually

[Diesel Do Nicely Brian]

You can pay the customs charge online and they will then deliver it - it does delay it somewhat as they seem to be in no hurry to get stuff to you - and the letter with the charge even has the cheek to come second class!

Might be worth haggling a bit on the £1000 low mile UK one and get that down a bit - or get the Lithuanian one down towards £700.  At £850, you'll be around £1040+ with the charges.

[OldTrout]

2 hours ago, carnut1980 said:

yep, 322k, 07 plate, serviced every 3 months by lexus, for the past 5 years ,so the best part of 30 main dealer service stamps

Off main topic I know but is this the highest mileage 450h in LOC?

Highest mileage of any UK Lexus?

[Shahpor]

2 hours ago, carnut1980 said:

yep, 322k, 07 plate, serviced every 3 months by lexus, for the past 5 years ,so the best part of 30 main dealer service stamps

Wow, that is impressive.

You must be quite friendly with the people at the dealer then.

Can we perhaps know a bit more about it?  Pics of how it is looking, how the mileage was racked up, any other problems apart from this one?

[KentIS300]

I don't get it?

Why would you need to pay customs?
Isn't this concidered a within EU zone transaction?
What ever you bring from Lithuania, you are only liable to pay the local VAT if applicable in Lithuania and that's it.
Since it is a used item it might not even have a VAT applied as it has already been paid once when it was sold as new.
Had you imported something from outside EU then customs would apply.
Am I wrong?

I have bought several items (springs, shocks etc) from Germany and never paid customs.
However I did when bought from US and China as they are outside EU

As mentioned here import taxes and customs are only when importing from outside of EU

http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/individuals/buying-goods-services-online-personal-use/buying-goods/buying-goods-online-coming-from-within-eu-union_en

or

http://www.dutycalculator.com/country-guides/Import-duty-taxes-when-importing-into-the-United-Kingdom/

[steve2006]

As above, both Latvia and Lithuania are EU states so there are no customs charges applicable.

Out of curiosity have you got all the correct PPE for hybrid Battery repairs?

[Diesel Do Nicely Brian]

Spot on - forgot about that!

 

[carnut1980]

15 hours ago, KentIS300 said:

I don't get it?

Why would you need to pay customs?
Isn't this concidered a within EU zone transaction?
What ever you bring from Lithuania, you are only liable to pay the local VAT if applicable in Lithuania and that's it.
Since it is a used item it might not even have a VAT applied as it has already been paid once when it was sold as new.
Had you imported something from outside EU then customs would apply.
Am I wrong?

I have bought several items (springs, shocks etc) from Germany and never paid customs.
However I did when bought from US and China as they are outside EU

As mentioned here import taxes and customs are only when importing from outside of EU

http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/individuals/buying-goods-services-online-personal-use/buying-goods/buying-goods-online-coming-from-within-eu-union_en

or

http://www.dutycalculator.com/country-guides/Import-duty-taxes-when-importing-into-the-United-Kingdom/

Its not just the VAT. If customs choose to randomly pull a large heavy metal box like that, aside, i have no idea how or if it would eventually get to me!

[carnut1980]

14 hours ago, steve2006 said:

As above, both Latvia and Lithuania are EU states so there are no customs charges applicable.

Out of curiosity have you got all the correct PPE for hybrid battery repairs?

Define PPE please

[carnut1980]

19 hours ago, Shahpor said:

Wow, that is impressive.

You must be quite friendly with the people at the dealer then.

Can we perhaps know a bit more about it?  Pics of how it is looking, how the mileage was racked up, any other problems apart from this one?

I have had it 9 months, i have serviced it once myself (oil plus filters).

Was a chaffeur owned car for the prior 6 years, who had a pre paid service pack with lexus. Looking at the history, it had done up to 63k in some 12 month periods, but like i say, serviced every 3 months.

I have also changed the 12v Battery since, and a rear hub. The AC has a leak somewhere, so i am trying to track down a workshop manual but not having any luck. I can't see any dye with my UV light . But access and visiblilty are limited, and i'm not sure how to get to the evaporator to check it over. Its in passenger footwell somewhere i think.

Bottom line is its a LEXUS GS450H SE-L, silver, 2007, top spec and in very good nick. Cost me £2600. Yes you read that right. I will indeed upload some pics

[OldTrout]

Does this help?

 

[carnut1980]

3 minutes ago, OldTrout said:

Hi, i had a look at that thread yesterday. Its excellent and very informative. But i don't have any condensation on the inside, nor any wet carpet.

The AC doesn't blow cold, i had it regassed anyway and was told it wasnt holding pressure. 

Pipes don't feel cold either .Although when i press against the valve at either the high pressure or low one, something certainly comes out. The condenser looks ok, with my UV light on it. As does the compressor, which would be pricey to swap and a bugger to get at

 

 

[steve2006]

1 hour ago, carnut1980 said:

Define PPE please

Safety equipment for handling high voltage systems like class O rubber gloves, fireproof overalls, flash hood.

 

[KentIS300]

12 hours ago, carnut1980 said:

Its not just the VAT. If customs choose to randomly pull a large heavy metal box like that, aside, i have no idea how or if it would eventually get to me!

I do not see any reason why something would be stopped from being delivered?

The country of origin is clear and destination is clear as well. It should not even pass via customs.

I assume your best bet would be to call them and ask.

[carnut1980]

OK its all done! Wow what a fiddly job. I bought two UK based low mileage prius batterys, stripped them and extracted all 56 Battery cells, as well as the fans, relay boards and voltage sensor modules. I even grabbed the copper 'double washers' as they were pristine, and the 56x2 nuts, which were cleaner and had a slightly larger contact surface area, although still 8mm.

Whole job done in 7 hours, in situ, IE, the Battery never left the boot/trunk.

The Battery graphic on the central screen no longer goes from 7 green bars, to one blue, in a matter of minutes. It stays put, and slowly goes up and up. Early days, but i can get higher speeds in just electric mode, plus MPG has already risen.

I can sell the remaining 16 Battery cells, as well as the fans, relays etc.

The two prius Battery units came to £900 all in. Far better value than getting a gs450h unit with 130k for £1800.

I can make half the £900 back with the remaining bits i sell, plus i am sure i will save on MPG overall, and it was quite satisfying, considering i know of no mechanic, lexus main stealer included, who would actually change the cells themselves. Although they could all change the entire unit, which is a 2 hour job.

Plenty of pics if required. Car is a 2007 gs450h SE-L with 324k miles. Yes, you read that correct!

[Shahpor]

Yes, pictures please.

I always like it when people actually repair things rather than just throwing the whole lot away.  I am sure it was a good feeling when everything worked afterwards.