IS 300h Rear Fog Light

[Smogonthealgarve]

Hi,

I'm new to this forum, but not to Lexus. Last month I purchased an IS 300h which replaces an IS 250, which in turn replaced an IS 200.

I should also explain that I live on the continent and therefore my cars have all been LH drive.

I've enjoyed every minute that I've driven each of these cars and will continue to do so with the 300, however I have one small niggle. It only has one rear fog light, which of course is on the off side of the vehicle. That's fine whenever I'm driving in Continental Europe, but when I visit the UK (at least once a year) this will put the fog light on the "wrong" side of the car. UK law states that there should be one rear fog light which must be placed either on the off-side or centre of the vehicle.

What concerns me more than the legal issue though is the safety aspect. I'm not sure if the UK spec is the same, but from photographs it appears that the rear light cluster matches the LH drive models, so this problem would of course apply to a UK registered RH drive 300 being driven abroad.  

Both the 250 and the 200 had dual rear fogs (a simple solution) so why the penny -pinching attitude towards safety with the 300 ?

I'd be grateful for any observations/advice.

Thanks

[wh05apk]

I believe under EU law, whilst a car s temporarily importedto a country, then the law of the home country applies , so provided the single fog is legal in your country, whilst you are on holiday here it will be fine.

Realistically the number of days fog lights rea required are minimal, I drive 20k+ miles a year, often late at night, and don't think I have used rear fogs this year,

[rayaans]

8 minutes ago, wh05apk said:

I believe under EU law, whilst a car s temporarily importedto a country, then the law of the home country applies , so provided the single fog is legal in your country, whilst you are on holiday here it will be fine.

Realistically the number of days fog lights rea required are minimal, I drive 20k+ miles a year, often late at night, and don't think I have used rear fogs this year,

Only 1 foglight on the rear in UK spec cars as well so no issues here. Ive only ever had to use fog lights twice in 20 years of driving

[Smogonthealgarve]

Thanks for your advice and observations guys. That certainly covers the legal side of things and perhaps my distant memories of gloomy days in the north of England have been exaggerated by time !

Perhaps if the 200 and 250 hadn't had twin rear fogs I'd never have noticed !

[bluenose1940]

Not only one rear fog light but only one reversing light too!  Absolute penny pinching rubbish!

There are a couple of threads on here somewhere, where a modification has been done by altering the light cluster/bulbs/lamps and, in some instances the reflectors.

[Smogonthealgarve]

15 minutes ago, bluenose1940 said:

Not only one rear fog light but only one reversing light too!  Absolute penny pinching rubbish!

There are a couple of threads on here somewhere, where a modification has been done by altering the light cluster/bulbs/lamps and, in some instances the reflectors.

I must admit Geoff, "penny pinching" is exactly how I saw it. It wouldn't have taken a genius to see how easily a double cluster (fog/reversing) could have been incorporated in the light clusters on both sides of the vehicle. It never even crossed my mind that dual fog and reversing lights wouldn't have been incorporated in the 300, particularly as they were present in the 200/250.

It's the safety angle that bothers me so I've taken the issue up with Lexus Portugal, but I'm not holding my breath !  

[rayaans]

Its not really a safety issue - two rear foglights aren't better than one. The main idea is that people behind you can see the car which one rear fog light does as good as two!

[Linas.P]

1 hour ago, rayaans said:

Its not really a safety issue - two rear foglights aren't better than one. The main idea is that people behind you can see the car which one rear fog light does as good as two!

I disagree, even though I rarely use fog lights myself. Two fog light shows where exactly is your car and how wide it is. Same reason why we have two headlamps and brake lights. That said, in heavy fog two lights can make a huge difference e.g. if you have two lights the driver behind know how wide is your car and assuming he cannot stop he can try to avoid you by steering, if you have one light driver would assume it is in correct side (right in UK), if car is from EU the driver will effectively hit right side of your car.

I believe possibility is very slim for this to have impact. Form me it is mostly aesthetical issue... that is why I don't like single exhaust pipe, single reverse or fog, because I like car to balanced.... what annoys me is that nothing can be done about fuel cap (I know mad). But at least lamps can be easily doubled.

[RichyRich]

Not observed the lack of twin fog lights but have noticed the single reverse light but it looks aa though there is a space where the other reverse light should be.   Agreee it seems an unnecessary design issue to not have both the reverse and rear fog lights.  What happens when thrle bulb goes in either,  we are left with no lights so that is a safety concern!! 

I love the exterior and cabin design but feel the 2nd gen was better built.   Still it is a great car. 

[capese21]

The reverse light uses a bulb whereas the fog is LED so unlikely to blow.  

[Smogonthealgarve]

3 hours ago, rayaans said:

Its not really a safety issue - two rear foglights aren't better than one. The main idea is that people behind you can see the car which one rear fog light does as good as two!

I too must disagree rayaans. For me this is definitely a safety issue. A lone high density fog on the near side of the vehicle could easily be mistaken for a motorbike and consquently lead to an unnecessary accident. As Linas says, the idea behind dual rear fogs is to delineate the width of the vehicle. What I don't understand is that Lexus saw fit to install the dual lights on the earlier models, so why have they been dropped from the third generation cars.

Incidentally, I don't know for sure, but I'm willing to bet that your RX450 has dual rear fogs !

[Smogonthealgarve]

1 hour ago, RichyRich said:

Not observed the lack of twin fog lights but have noticed the single reverse light but it looks aa though there is a space where the other reverse light should be.   Agreee it seems an unnecessary design issue to not have both the reverse and rear fog lights.  What happens when thrle bulb goes in either,  we are left with no lights so that is a safety concern!! 

I love the exterior and cabin design but feel the 2nd gen was better built.   Still it is a great car. 

Richard, I think you'll find that the space where the second reversing light should be is actually the rear fog. Its a clear reflector with red LED's.

I agree with you on the build quality. My 250 certainly feel better built than the 300. Now there's a thought, it's still in my garage. Perhaps I could palm the 300 off to my buyer and keep the 250 ! That would solve my rear fog problem !!!!! Only joking, just like you I also think the 300 is a great car, different and more fun to drive.

[rayaans]

7 minutes ago, Smogonthealgarve said:

I too must disagree rayaans. For me this is definitely a safety issue. A lone high density fog on the near side of the vehicle could easily be mistaken for a motorbike and consquently lead to an unnecessary accident. As Linas says, the idea behind dual rear fogs is to delineate the width of the vehicle. What I don't understand is that Lexus saw fit to install the dual lights on the earlier models, so why have they been dropped from the third generation cars.

Incidentally, I don't know for sure, but I'm willing to bet that your RX450 has dual rear fogs !

The fact of the matter is, if it IS a safety issue having just 1 fog light on the rear, you are 1) either driving too close or 2) you need a trip to specsavers.

The width of a car is irrelevant when you're behind it.

[RichyRich]

2 minutes ago, rayaans said:

The fact of the matter is, if it IS a safety issue having just 1 fog light on the rear, you are 1) either driving too close or 2) you need a trip to specsavers.

The width of a car is irrelevant when you're behind it.

As a cyclist I think the width of a car in fog is relevant.  I wear specs from Specsavers incidentally ;) 

[capese21]

I looked into this last year. If you want 2 of both then source a left hand drive light cluster to give you two reversing lights. Then buy two LED fogs that replace the reflectors in the bumper. I was going to do this but then traded my IS for a GS.

[Smogonthealgarve]

35 minutes ago, Smogonthealgarve said:

I to o must disagree rayaans. For me this is definitely a safety issue. A lone high density fog on the near side of the vehicle could easily be mistaken for a motorbike and consquently lead to an unnecessary accident. As Linas says, the idea behind dual rear fogs is to delineate the width of the vehicle. What I don't understand is that Lexus saw fit to install the dual lights on the earlier models, so why have they been dropped from the third generation cars.

Incidentally, I don't know for sure, but I'm willing to bet that your RX450 has dual rear fogs !

 

29 minutes ago, rayaans said:

The fact of the matter is, if it IS a safety issue having just 1 fog light on the rear, you are 1) either driving too close or 2) you need a trip to specsavers.

The width of a car is irrelevant when you're behind it.

Really ? If you have to resort to being offensIve to make your point there's little point in continuing the discussion. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

[rayaans]

5 minutes ago, Smogonthealgarve said:

 

Really ? If you have to resort to being offensIve to make your point there's little point in continuing the discussion. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

There's nothing offensive in my post - just facts. Why do you need to know how wide a car is when you're behind it? Surely you need to be concentrating on the road ahead and staying in the lines rather than bothering about how wide a vehicle is in front of you??!

I go on motorways regularly, Ive never had the need to think "oh dear, there's only 1 fog light in front of me, I wonder how wide that vehicle is!"
 

38 minutes ago, RichyRich said:

As a cyclist I think the width of a car in fog is relevant.  I wear specs from Specsavers incidentally ;) 

Relevant for what? Parked cars aren't going to have their fog lights on so you'd miss them completely if that was the case!

[RichyRich]

2 hours ago, rayaans said:

There's nothing offensive in my post - just facts. Why do you need to know how wide a car is when you're behind it? Surely you need to be concentrating on the road ahead and staying in the lines rather than bothering about how wide a vehicle is in front of you??!

I go on motorways regularly, Ive never had the need to think "oh dear, there's only 1 fog light in front of me, I wonder how wide that vehicle is!"
 

Relevant for what? Parked cars aren't going to have their fog lights on so you'd miss them completely if that was the case!

Not parked cars,  when I cycle there are on occasion moving cars!

[Linas.P]

4 hours ago, rayaans said:

The fact of the matter is, if it IS a safety issue having just 1 fog light on the rear, you are 1) either driving too close or 2) you need a trip to specsavers.

The width of a car is irrelevant when you're behind it.

You probably haven't see really heavy fog then.. where visibility is like 1m ahead.. and you're single fog light would look like one red blob until like 15 m away, when you would clearly see the fog light, but not yet the car.. if you have 2 lights, you know where the car is, but if one you can only assume.. maybe it is car maybe it is bike, mybe the rest of the car is to the left or right.

Obviously, you can say... you should be driving slower in such heavy smog etc. That doesn't matter - fact is... people not always keeps the distance, not always chooses the right speed .. and 2 fog light are definitely safer than one.... and as well looks better.

[PaulWhitt20]

I would have thought the cost saving of not having to wire up two extra bulbs would be negligible against having to stock four types of light cluster instead if two and to make all cars the same.

Perhaps they should also fit a steering wheel and pedals on both sides to maintain the internal symmetry too.

[Rabbers]

The single rear fog-light on the 300h can be an issue in terms of driver-confidence in any part of the world where fog is frequent (e.g. the  Po Valley in Italy, Zurich Canton in Switzerland), not to mention the car's reduced visibility in heavy rain at night on badly-lit roads, especially motorways, as the result of spray kicked up by the rear wheels.  Two would certainly be better than one, and the fact that some owners may be fortunate (or careless or thoughtless) enough to need to switch the fog-light on only rarely does not seem any kind of justification for one of Lexus's few unsatisfactory design decisions, no doubt dictated by corporate bean-counters at the costing stage.   However, as rear fogs go, it must be said that it is quite a powerful one.  As regards the single reversing-light, I also feel that two would be preferable, but am less concerned with the safety aspect than my irritation at occasionally being approached by someone telling me that "one of my reversing-lights isn't working".

[Smogonthealgarve]

On 9/3/2016 at 8:03 AM, PaulWhitt20 said:

I would have thought the cost saving of not having to wire up two extra bulbs would be negligible against having to stock four types of light cluster instead if two and to make all cars the same.

 

Not sure of the point you're making Paul. If the 300 had dual fog and reversing lights as was the case with the 200/250, the rear light clusters would be the same whether the car was RH or LH drive and therefore there'd be no need for four types of cluster. There's little doubt that the decision on the spec of the IS300h has been made with a view to saving money. That's 1 LED strip and 1 clear bulb per car, and of course that all adds up over the life time of the model.

[Smogonthealgarve]

20 hours ago, Rabbers said:

The single rear fog-light on the 300h can be an issue in terms of driver-confidence in any part of the world where fog is frequent (e.g. the  Po Valley in Italy, Zurich Canton in Switzerland), not to mention the car's reduced visibility in heavy rain at night on badly-lit roads, especially motorways, as the result of spray kicked up by the rear wheels.  Two would certainly be better than one, and the fact that some owners may be fortunate (or careless or thoughtless) enough to need to switch the fog-light on only rarely does not seem any kind of justification for one of Lexus's few unsatisfactory design decisions, no doubt dictated by corporate bean-counters at the costing stage.   However, as rear fogs go, it must be said that it is quite a powerful one.  As regards the single reversing-light, I also feel that two would be preferable, but am less concerned with the safety aspect than my irritation at occasionally being approached by someone telling me that "one of my reversing-lights isn't working".

Agree with all that you say Renato. My 2 worst journeys ever (one of 5 hours and one of 3 hours) were both in Iberia in intense, torrential rain. Rear fogs were imperative in the circumstances. No doubt that the decision regarding the 300 was made on cost grounds. The manufacturer has looked to save money wherever possible e.g. my IS250 had 13 speakers (probably too many), the 300 only 6 (probably too few). The only difference is that I was well aware of this change in spec when I purchased the 300, it never even crossed my mind that a prestigious company like Lexus would change the rear light clusters in the way that they have. 

[PaulWhitt20]

I was thinking that if there is only one fog light and one brake light then you would need

A left hand drive light cluster with fog light

A left hand drive light cluster with reversing light

A right hand drive light cluster with fog light

A right hand drive light cluster with reversing light

But if left hand drive and right hand drive both had two fog lights and reversing lights then they would only need a left light cluster and a right light cluster.

I may be wrong though, and the light clusters are the same for left and right hand drive cars and just a different bulb in the slot for reversing or fog lights, in which case two types will do. Either way they have to wire it up differently.

[Linas.P]

1 hour ago, Smogonthealgarve said:

The manufacturer has looked to save money wherever possible e.g. my IS250 had 13 speakers (probably too many), the 300 only 6 (probably too few). 

I definately agree, not saying 3rd. Gen IS is bad car, but I have tried to compare it few times with Lexus loaners and it seems that 2nd. Gen had much better equipments and slightly better build quality. The example of speakers is very evident, in 2nd Gen you get 13 speakers standard, why on 3rd you need to get ML for extra 3k to get same level of sound, because standard only has 6 speakers ... probably equivalent to Dacias and cheap cars alike, while Premium has 8 and only ML has 15. That is huge difference from year to year. As well if looking to specific trim levels back In the day there were much smaller difference in price between SE-L and SE and much richer base equipment levels, while in 3rd. Gen equipment options reminds me Audi, MB and BMW where you need to pay for every extra and base model comes with very poor equipment. 

That said, I am really unsure why Lexus made decision not to double on reverse and fog, because as stated by Paul added complexity undermines cost saving. Seems to be really poor decision.