Suspicious

is200 Newbie · August 31, 2016

This may be genuine but after reading about recent thefts of cars it makes you a bit wary. The ISF stolen from a forum member brings it home how easy it is to find one of these although admittedly mines a standard IS. I left work today and stopped off at the local shop for some milk before travelling the short distance home. As I got out of my car I heard a comment on how good these are and its a nice car etc ... this was from someone sitting in a car in the parking space next to mine. Didn't think anything of it at the time.

Coming out of the shop another comment was made, nice car etc ... driving off and about 20 yards down the road I noticed the car following. It could have taken three routes out from the shop. I got home into my drive and noticed the car pass not long after.

Being a bit paranoid I think as gut feeling is that its just coincidence but have the cars reg number that the guy was in from the dash cam just in case but just goes to show how easy it is for people to track cars down if they are looking for one.

There is only another one of these local - an IS220 and that's in a business next to my work 15 miles away so its not like they are a common car.

Verbout · August 31, 2016

At what point did you become suspicious?

steve2006 · August 31, 2016

Does sound weird behaviour, keep those details safe and download the camera footage to your PC.

I was up at Alport Heights in Derbyshire yesterday. Not long after I had parked up a Porsche arrived and parked sideways in the parking area.

Older guy who was driving and a younger passenger jumped out and then all sorts of professional looking camera equipment was taken out of the boot, young guy then sets about taking loads of photographs from various angles using I guess the surrounds for visual effects.

Photographer guy then comes over and starts asking about mine, told him the details and then he asked if he could take some photos of mine, never asked him what the Porsche shoot was for but he left shortly afterwards and my car was still in the garage this morning.

is200 Newbie · August 31, 2016

50 minutes ago, Verbout said:

At what point did you become suspicious?

Just seemed a bit odd that the guy was sitting in his car at the shop not particularly waiting for anyone as I was the only person there and then when I came out he was still there but moved off not much longer from when I did and kind of held back as I drove home. Me being a bit too careful I think but just checked and the cars still on the drive behind another one.

At the end of the day its insured ....

is200 Newbie · August 31, 2016

1 hour ago, steve2006 said:

Does sound weird behaviour, keep those details safe and download the camera footage to your PC.

I was up at Alport Heights in Derbyshire yesterday. Not long after I had parked up a Porsche arrived and parked sideways in the parking area.

Older guy who was driving and a younger passenger jumped out and then all sorts of professional looking camera equipment was taken out of the boot, young guy then sets about taking loads of photographs from various angles using I guess the surrounds for visual effects.

Photographer guy then comes over and starts asking about mine, told him the details and then he asked if he could take some photos of mine, never asked him what the Porsche shoot was for but he left shortly afterwards and my car was still in the garage this morning.

Some people will put you in situations that will always make you question why they are doing things but you find yourself questioning yourself more after its happened thinking why didn't I do this or that or ask this question or that question. Guess most of the time its genuine but reading other peoples experiences of things and situations that have gone wrong then it kind of makes you more aware.

You may even be on a tv commercial after the photo shoot??!

mk_lon · August 31, 2016

Hey guys,

My area has a big problem with vehicle theft. One of my neighbours had his newish 5 series stolen from his drive.

Typically the scum/theifs have a list of cars to export. They follow you and watch your house for a few days then break in at night taking the keys (making literally no noise) or they get your signal if it's a keyless entry system.

Currently owners of bmw's, mercs and range rovers have had a visit from local police telling them to be careful etc.

One can never be too careful if your living in a big city.

Bluesman · August 31, 2016

Make sure you take the keys to bed with you for foreseeable future.

mk_lon · August 31, 2016

Yup, totally agree with you.

Worth mentioning I have noticed a few bmw's with the old style steering clamps on them now

Verbout · September 1, 2016

I have a key safe as I've mentioned before, all the car, door, shed etc, keys are in it when not in use.

I can hear someone say "They'll wake you up and threaten you to get the keys" they don't.

Burglars want to get in and out without being disturbed.

is200 Newbie, if you knew you were being followed why didn't you take them on a longer detour to make sure, via a local police station.

If you are sure you were followed its worth reporting to the police, if they do nothing immediately any decent/good police officer should realise it's good intelligence.

Members

Linas.P · September 1, 2016

Actually, I found this very strange ... just because what Lexus is "as a brand" in Europe. What I mean is that Lexus is not common or popular car.

There are few types of scums who steal cars ... like joy riders, strippers, exporters and "legalisers" (maybe more, but I am not an expert.. ). Now if you think about Lexus it is only suitable for "legalisers". Lexus in UK is not suitable for exporters, because obviously car steering wheel is on "wrong side", strippers are not interested either because Lexus is not popular car, neither in UK, nor (even more) in Continental Europe.. that said Lexus spare parts are simply not in demand. Yes cars like BMW, VW, Audi are the ones being stripped, maybe Ford, Vauxhall in UK, but not Lexus. Joy riders are usually teenagers scums who are looking for cars which are easy to break in and drive away, parked in remote areas, maybe abandoned... definitely not standard definition of Lexus, is it? They definitely doesn't brake into the houses for keys.. and the cars are usually are found burned-out in remote places (or not so often found... at the bottom of the lakes).

So finally, it is only "legalisers" who might be interested, they have registration of the car which was written off, but not properly recorded and they are looking for suitable donor car either as parts for repair for specific order or even as a whole car to have VINs faked on the car and in this way legalised. This is quite viable option in UK, because on the sale cars are not being inspected by DVLA, like it is done in other countries where upon each sale car is fully inspected by governing body for specifically VIN matching and any dodgy looking VIN plates or stickers.

However, "legalisers" are generally after new and expensive cars, because the process is risky and very expensive. Have you ever noticed completely written-off cars being sold for £5000, like bare burned out shell + reg and I was always wondering who would be interested buying it.. after all is nothing left but the bare rusted shell.. Well apparently the price is not for the car, but for its documents... However, that said it is very unlikely somebody would be looking for 2nd gen IS250, car is simply not worth it. Quite different here with IS-F, because I believe this was exactly the case. Car like white UK IS-F is not in demand anywhere, so it must have been specific order for specific existing client who needed specifically white IS-F... MB was probably taken at the same conveniently for stripping...

To get your paranoia under control you can explore tracking options, because they are really cheap .. or I believe even such simple thing as this might be powerful enough to deter any scums..

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Tracking-Security-Stickers-87x30mm--Tracker/dp/B00XIE2JZ4/ref=sr_1_15?ie=UTF8&qid=1472728005&sr=8-15&keywords=gps+tracking+stickers

Bluesman · September 1, 2016

Most countries which were British colonies still drive on the left hand side of the road including huge land masses such as India, Australia and Southern Africa plus all these.

Australia, Caribbean Islands, Channel Islands, Cyprus, Japan, Hong Kong, India, Isle of Man, Ireland, Jamaica, Kenya, Malta. Malaysia, New Zealand, South Africa, Singapore,

Thailand.

The market for RH drive cars is huge, stolen or legal.

steve2006 · September 1, 2016

Seem to remember reading recently that written off cars no longer require a VIC for cat C before they can be put back on the road just a fresh MOT, surely this makes it easier to ring a car.

Regarding the purchase of "burnt out" cars these should be classed as Cat A and therefore crushed, never returning to the road.

Apparently a lot of nasty chemicals are present in burnt out shells.

Linas.P · September 1, 2016

18 minutes ago, steve2006 said:

Seem to remember reading recently that written off cars no longer require a VIC for cat C before they can be put back on the road just a fresh MOT, surely this makes it easier to ring a car.

Regarding the purchase of "burnt out" cars these should be classed as Cat A and therefore crushed, never returning to the road.

Apparently a lot of nasty chemicals are present in burnt out shells.

Well that is IF they were reported and formally written-off. The categories you referring to only has meaning when the accident is reported to insurance and the claim is made. However, Police do not automatically report damaged cars nor cares they are properly categorised.

There are many circumstances where the cars are totaled, but no insurance claim can be made, so it is total loss and has potential for black market. I can give few examples e.g. gang member's car was arsoned, fire fighters came put the fire of and left, now it is up to him to report it. Somebody under influence of drugs crashed the car, will they report it? Somebody racing in circuit totaled the car, no insurance covers racing, car is total loss.

And don't get me wrong.. that burn out shell will be crushed, but documents will be reused to legalise stolen car.

43 minutes ago, Bluesman said:

The market for RH drive cars is huge, stolen or legal.

I don't know enough to comment on the RH market size, but have recently read article about stolen Lexus RX with GPS being tracked all the way to Uganda... but this again would be job of "legalisers", because getting the car through the border is risky and if documents and VINs are not faked it is almost 100% it will get caught.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-3243438/Lexus-4x4-stolen-London-tracked-UGANDA-using-smartphone-app-leads-recovery-28-high-value-cars.html

Exporting "straight stolen" car is only viable withing EU because of lack of border control, import and export checks etc. I am sure in majority of the cases UK cars are not subject to "exporting" because they are either "popular" cars which are stripped and sold as spare parts or legalised and used in UK or as you mentioned exported to other RH markets, but again it would only apply for expensive cars only (as mentioned in article above "high value cars"). Majority of straight stolen cars only goes one direction... from West EU (except UK) to Eastern EU and that is predominately popular makes like BMW, MB, VW, Audi to suit the market, Lexus is at the bottom of the list. Same for the cars from UK, except they not being sold as a whole, but stripped.

Now again.. nothing above is some kind of fact or expertise, but rather my observations over the time. there might be some niche markets an some nonsense jobs or people spuriously stealing random car and driving it, but that would be exception rather than rule.

Linas.P · September 1, 2016

Actually, I can even give my own example.. my car was vandalised and I had DVR footage of it, I have informed police and the case will reach the court this month for criminal damage. I have not claimed the damage from insurance and if wouldn't inform insurance company about police investigation they would not know my car was damaged. It was few minor minor dents, which I will probably get repaired by painless dent removal for £100, but when I quoted Lexus bodyshop for a bill they came up with £2700+VAT.. that would result in Cat D the least, if not Cat C if reported to insurance.

I did inform my insurance and they know, but what I mean there is no automatic categorization applied and even completely totaled car can have no official category.

Bluesman · September 1, 2016

1 hour ago, Linas.P said:

Well that is IF they were reported and formally written-off. The categories you referring to only has meaning when the accident is reported to insurance and the claim is made. However, Police do not automatically report damaged cars nor cares they are properly categorised.

There are many circumstances where the cars are totaled, but no insurance claim can be made, so it is total loss and has potential for black market. I can give few examples e.g. gang member's car was arsoned, fire fighters came put the fire of and left, now it is up to him to report it. Somebody under influence of drugs crashed the car, will they report it? Somebody racing in circuit totaled the car, no insurance covers racing, car is total loss.

And don't get me wrong.. that burn out shell will be crushed, but documents will be reused to legalise stolen car.

I don't know enough to comment on the RH market size, but have recently read article about stolen Lexus RX with GPS being tracked all the way to Uganda... but this again would be job of "legalisers", because getting the car through the border is risky and if documents and VINs are not faked it is almost 100% it will get caught.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-3243438/Lexus-4x4-stolen-London-tracked-UGANDA-using-smartphone-app-leads-recovery-28-high-value-cars.html

Exporting "straight stolen" car is only viable withing EU because of lack of border control, import and export checks etc. I am sure in majority of the cases UK cars are not subject to "exporting" because they are either "popular" cars which are stripped and sold as spare parts or legalised and used in UK or as you mentioned exported to other RH markets, but again it would only apply for expensive cars only (as mentioned in article above "high value cars"). Majority of straight stolen cars only goes one direction... from West EU (except UK) to Eastern EU and that is predominately popular makes like BMW, MB, VW, Audi to suit the market, Lexus is at the bottom of the list. Same for the cars from UK, except they not being sold as a whole, but stripped.

Now again.. nothing above is some kind of fact or expertise, but rather my observations over the time. there might be some niche markets an some nonsense jobs or people spuriously stealing random car and driving it, but that would be exception rather than rule.

I can tell Linas you have never experienced the delights of corruption and lawlessness in the African countries. It all depends on making sure you bribe the right people and your away. You cant even imagine just how corrupt these countries are. This also goes for lots of the middle east and far east countries. The last thing that concerns them is where the car comes from and is it legal?

Linas.P · September 1, 2016

1 minute ago, Bluesman said:

I can tell Linas you have never experienced the delights of corruption and lawlessness in the African countries. It all depends on making sure you bribe the right people and your away. You cant even imagine just how corrupt these countries are. This also goes for lots of the middle east and far east countries. The last thing that concerns them is where the car comes from and is it legal?

You are right.. and as well I have experienced what "corruption" is in African countries and Middle east... They don't even call it corruption, it is simply the way they live. If car is stolen or not is last concern there... I completely agree.

But you missing my point.. corruption in Africa plays no significance in our topic. The most challenging part is to get car out of UK first, then it is little easier to get it out from EU, because it is possible to slip through the net in South and East EU. When car theft goes I don't think many countries check what gets imported, they don't have direct access to database of stolen cars and unless it really looks dodgy they are unlikely to bother to check. The enforcement is on exporting country i.e. UK the border control, they have direct access to the records of stolen cars and can easily rectify and at least basic VIC check are made.

So unless car is already "leagised" by using documents from other car or faked purchase agreement + car is not reported as stolen yet (like for leased or rented cars) it won't manage to slip from UK. That is why cars are being stripped and exported as parts. Now as mentioned already, for "legalising" cars there must be specific order or the car must be generally in demand + it should be expensive enough so that somebody would bother to spend time and effort. Yes IS-F is probably expensive enough, but hardly any 2nd gen IS250 or 220d is viable. My IS is valued by insurance ~£6750, if your shipping is £2000 + fake documents and other bits another £3000-4000... not to mention the car actually needs to be stolen... So where is profit? Why not steal something like VW Passat for parts and get and get neat, quick profit without any risk, long wait, dodgy intermediaries or upfront investment... Now obviously all that above are speculations, but I am just trying to understand scum logic behind stealing the cars, I am sure I don't need to explain it is done for profit and if they cannot make money, they won't do it.

juicestop · September 2, 2016

I never use the remote control to lock/open the car. Always use the buttons on the door handles or boot to gain access and the same for locking. At least that way nobody can read the frequency using a scanner and then steal your car.

Linas.P · September 2, 2016

6 hours ago, juicestop said:

I never use the remote control to lock/open the car. Always use the buttons on the door handles or boot to gain access and the same for locking. At least that way nobody can read the frequency using a scanner and then steal your car.

I am not too sure about that, because to unlock the car with buttons on the doors, the sensor still needs to identify the key within 1 meter from cars, so pressing the button on the door is essentially the same as pressing one on remote.

+ all above applies. I am confident Lexus IS250 is one of the least risky cars in terms of theft, they are simply rare, relatively low value and not in demand.

juicestop · September 3, 2016

There you go, you've answered your own doubt. Unless the thief is within 1 meter of the car when you press the button on the door they won't be able to capture the signal.

Linas.P · September 3, 2016

13 hours ago, juicestop said:

There you go, you've answered your own doubt. Unless the thief is within 1 meter of the car when you press the button on the door they won't be able to capture the signal.

That is now how signal capture works... but if you feel safer using key buttons that is fine.

juicestop · September 3, 2016

From http://www.thecarexpert.co.uk/gone-60-seconds-high-tech-car-theft/

"Another car theft problem exists with the latest Toyota and Lexus proximity keys. Crooks have been using a sophisticated tool that clones the signal of a key when pressed to lock the car. The thieves hide out of sight and press a button on their cloning machine at the same time the car owner pushes the key lock button. The signal is then copied and allows the thieves to unlock and start the car without any sign of break-in."

As I stated previously, the thief would have to be within 1 metre of the car to capture the signal when using the door handle/button to unlock/lock the car. I feel safer using this method because it IS safer.

Linas.P · September 3, 2016

They don't need to say 1 metre away, they use directional antennas and don't need to be between the key and your car, so as long as some sort of signal radio signal is transmitted, it can be intercepted.

As well article you quoted talk particularly about proximity keys, meaning not regular remote key, but lexus like key where you can use door handle to open the car instead of the key.

One good thing is that they won't be able to start your engine without having the correct key inside the car, because the signal when starting the engine is different from one to unlock the doors.

I'm just going to repeat this for third time if not more - Lexus IS is very secure, yet low value. Meaning hard to steal, no profit, hence scums are not interested. Unless the keys are stored in jar 5metres away in unlocked kitchen and the car in question is £20k+ white IS-F.

Verbout · September 3, 2016

In my experience its insecure houses and insecure storage of keys that is the problem.

I'm not totally sold on "spooks" going around stealing cars like on Gone in 60 seconds. Not for our sort of cars anyway. But if people who read the Internets cotton wool hype want to believe it get on with it.

The technology was possibly from Roswel

royoftherovers · September 4, 2016

Roswell was in 1947 Garry.That was 69 years ago.Can you explain please as I was only one year old then ?

Regards

John

Verbout · September 4, 2016

7 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

Roswell was in 1947 Garry.That was 69 years ago.Can you explain please as I was only one year old then ?

Regards

John

I was comparing the myth of people stealing Lexus cars by capturing security date with the myth of Roswell, both stories talked about, and kept alive on the Internet with people just regurgitating the same old stories.