Warranty

Saul.Lex · August 11, 2016

Hi Guys,

I need some help.

I have a Lexus 450h 2006. I have 113k on the clock. The hybrid Battery has failed. I have extended warranty, but they are refusing to cover the cost of replacing the hybrid battery stating that it's the age of the vehicle and high mileage and is not a mechanical failure.

My warranty expires in November 2106 but back in May 2016 before its 10 years anniversary I got sold another 2 years, so I am covered until 2018.

I am in in disbelief as it costs £2400 to replace the hybrid Battery. I am arguing the following points:

1) In the warranty terms & conditions it doesn't say if the vehicle is aged, parts won't be covered. It says, they won't cover if it its wear & tear. Can this be classed as wear & tear?

2) If they are using this ageing argument, they should clearly state this that hybrid batters won't be covered if over certain age, no?

3) I reported the Hybrid Battery problem before the 10 year anniversary of the vehicle as I had some alarms come up. The dealer than said alarms were cleared and test were inconclusive. Less than 6 months later the hybrid Battery has failed.

I would sincerely appreciate your help guys to sort this out.

Thank you

Saul

royoftherovers · August 11, 2016

I thought that the Official Lexus Warranty covered vehicles up to 140,000 miles and 10 years old.

Which Lexus Dealer has told you that you are not covered ?

Regards

John

bobmc · August 11, 2016

I would take this to show you are covered (from Lexus website)

See where it says (HV Battery on Hybrids is covered)

Saul.Lex · August 11, 2016

10 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

I thought that the Official Lexus Warranty covered vehicles up to 140,000 miles and 10 years old.

Which Lexus Dealer has told you that you are not covered ?

Regards

John

Lexus Woodford. Exactly, that's why I was allowed to extend my warranty. This is the exact words the dealer has said Lexus warranty have refused the claim,

"the car is 10 years old 113k on the clock can't be viewed as manufacturer defect. Would be seen as a result of normal ageing."

Do I need to find out how long does a lexus hybrid Battery last?

Saul.Lex · August 11, 2016

Before I purchased the warranty I made sure Hybrid Battery is covered.

Can the failing of a hybrid be classed as wear & tear?

How do you differentiate between mechanical failure and wear & tear?

Saul.Lex · August 11, 2016

Would appreciate if anyone can tell me how long a Hybrid Battery on Lexus 450H should last or where I can obtain this information.

Thank you

bobmc · August 11, 2016

Have you spoken to Lexus warranty direct? It may be just the dealer/individual being 'difficult'

The wear and tear argument is particularly difficult to comprehend and justify where the vehicle is within the 10 year/140K limit and there is no specific exclusion on the lifetime of HV Battery.

How exactly have you worn it out? Mileage? Age? So what is the cut-off? 100K? 110K? 8,9,10 years? If there is one, why is that not part of the T&C's?

Saul.Lex · August 11, 2016

BOBMC, exaclty, that's my point - no clear definition.

I didn't think there would be a cause for the dealer to be difficult.

Any official note from Lexus that state how long a hybrid Battery should last? I need that to back up my case when I speak to the Lexus warranty.

rayaans · August 11, 2016

3 minutes ago, Saul.Lex said:

BOBMC, exaclty, that's my point - no clear definition.

I didn't think there would be a cause for the dealer to be difficult.

Any official note from Lexus that state how long a hybrid battery should last? I need that to back up my case when I speak to the Lexus warranty.

Theres no official statement saying how long it should last.

However, referring to their 10 year/140k limit on the warranty, and nothing explicit saying that the hybrid Battery is not covered, then I would take it to mean that it is DEFINITELY covered.

I would go into the dealership and make a fuss TBH as they're trying to have you on.

bobmc · August 11, 2016

On these forums some dealers reputations are matter for debate - hence my comment. No personal experience just hearsay.

Agree with @rayaans it's unlikely you will get a definitive statement, but the weight of argument is on your side.

royoftherovers · August 11, 2016

52 minutes ago, Saul.Lex said:

Lexus Woodford. Exactly, that's why I was allowed to extend my warranty. This is the exact words the dealer has said Lexus warranty have refused the claim,

"the car is 10 years old 113k on the clock can't be viewed as manufacturer defect. Would be seen as a result of normal ageing."

Do I need to find out how long does a lexus hybrid battery last?

So long as you have fulfilled your part of the Contract Saul (have you had the car serviced by Lexus in accordance with requirements?) then you should take matters further by contacting Lexus Customer Services,but after giving Lexus Woodford the opportunity to review its decision.Keep detailed notes of what they say and have said previously to you. At the last Service they should have given the Battery an Annual Healthcheck.

Good Luck.

Regards

John

Saul.Lex · August 11, 2016

Can I ask, I thought the warranty was with Lexus warranty a different entity and nothing to do with the dealer? So there's no interest for the dealer to be biased here, or am I missing something?

I am all upto date with service by Lexus Woodford. Should the annual healthcheck have shown something wrong with Battery? Do I have an argument here?

Saul.Lex · August 11, 2016

37 minutes ago, rayaans said:

Theres no official statement saying how long it should last.

However, referring to their 10 year/140k limit on the warranty, and nothing explicit saying that the hybrid battery is not covered, then I would take it to mean that it is DEFINITELY covered.

I would go into the dealership and make a fuss TBH as they're trying to have you on.

I thought they could argue that most hybrid batteries fail within a certain amount of miles/age. Having said that, they should legally make this clear and say Hybrid batteries over certain age isn't covered. Its left open. Consumers ACT 2015 requires traders to make contract clear and transparent.

I think legally they are weak but not sure how long this will drag on and if i can claim compensation afterwards for them not fixing the car right away.

rayaans · August 11, 2016

51 minutes ago, Saul.Lex said:

I thought they could argue that most hybrid batteries fail within a certain amount of miles/age. Having said that, they should legally make this clear and say Hybrid batteries over certain age isn't covered. Its left open. Consumers ACT 2015 requires traders to make contract clear and transparent.

I think legally they are weak but not sure how long this will drag on and if i can claim compensation afterwards for them not fixing the car right away.

Batteries will fail at some point but not sure how they can say it's normal wear and tear.

For example, if an engine blows at your age and mileage, they wouldn't be able to say "normal wear and tear this is" would they?

Saul.Lex · August 11, 2016

Yep, that's why I needed to find something where they say hybrid Battery lasts this many years or miles.

If anyone can find something, I would be most grateful.

Saul.Lex · August 11, 2016

I just found this article on Lexus's blog. Please look down where it says: How long do they last.

http://blog.lexus.co.uk/how-does-lexus-hybrid-drive-work/

It says:

The Battery is designed to last the life of the vehicle. In any case, your Battery is warranted for five years. The batteries are much larger than regular car batteries as they need to generate and deliver sufficient voltage to power the car at low-speeds without any support from the petrol engine. Their production does have a small, additional impact on the environment, but this is more than compensated for by the environmental benefits of driving a hybrid car.

Procedures are also in place so that each Battery can be recycled, arranged through Lexus dealerships.

Is this proof and do I have case now?

Shahpor · August 12, 2016

This is nonsense.

You need to speak to the warranty company directly since they are a separate entity from the dealer network.

Do you have your terms and conditions paperwork? I have just had a look at mine, and it state the following:

Section 1.1, subsection (h):

(Eligible vehicle) is less than 10 years old and has less than 140,000 miles on its milometer at the start of the first warranty period if the vehicle was not purchased through the Lexus Approved Used Car Programme with the benefit of a Lexus Extended Warranty;

So, as long as your car was not 10 years old when you bought the warranty, it is irrelevant how old it is now.

Section 4.1, subsection (c):

(Excluded parts and Operations) Any Battery other than the high voltage Battery in a hybrid vehicle that may be used for the propulsion of such vehicle.

So only the standard Battery is excluded, which means the hybrid Battery is covered by the warranty regardless.

Call them on 0330 100 3312 and find out what is going on.

Hopefully they will see sense.

cruisermark · August 12, 2016

Can't really add any more - from the info posted above you should be getting a New Battery fullstop.

you say your car has FLSH - what about the Hybrid Health Check?

Saul.Lex · August 12, 2016

It was serviced in March and Hybrid Health Check was done. Are you saying that they should have picked up something there?

Also, back in March I did have alarms come up that said, "check hybrid battery" but the dealer said they did tests but results were inconclusive.

Is that a point of argument that they should have pick that up?

Saul.Lex · August 12, 2016

8 hours ago, Shahpor said:

This is nonsense.

You need to speak to the warranty company directly since they are a separate entity from the dealer network.

Do you have your terms and conditions paperwork? I have just had a look at mine, and it state the following:

Section 1.1, subsection (h):

(Eligible vehicle) is less than 10 years old and has less than 140,000 miles on its milometer at the start of the first warranty period if the vehicle was not purchased through the Lexus Approved Used Car Programme with the benefit of a Lexus Extended Warranty;

So, as long as your car was not 10 years old when you bought the warranty, it is irrelevant how old it is now.

Section 4.1, subsection (c):

(Excluded parts and Operations) Any battery other than the high voltage battery in a hybrid vehicle that may be used for the propulsion of such vehicle.

So only the standard battery is excluded, which means the hybrid battery is covered by the warranty regardless.

Call them on 0330 100 3312 and find out what is going on.

Hopefully they will see sense.

That's exactly my point. No specific exclusions. After doing further digging I have seen in numerous places where they advice people that if you want a peace of mind on the battery after the stand 5 year/60k miles, get extended warranty. I hope this doesn't drag on as I am without a car.

Saul.Lex · August 12, 2016

52 minutes ago, cruisermark said:

Can't really add any more - from the info posted above you should be getting a New battery fullstop.

you say your car has FLSH - what about the Hybrid Health Check?

Yes FLSH. On a service plan. Paying main dealer service prices so the warranty stays active. and now...... what can i say........

Z28DUNC · August 12, 2016

This is BS, get onto the warranty company as suggested or I'm sure Lexus must have a customer helpline that I'd be phoning. You are clearly covered for HV Battery replacement, no questions.

Saul.Lex · August 12, 2016

Guys, I have this sorted now.

Spoke to warranty company in the moring - they still refused saying its wear & tear, mileage and age of vehicle. Also refused to except the point that - battery should last as long as the life of the vehicle .

I then spoke to the dealer who put the claim in again to say it was not wear and tear but electrical failure and luckily they approved.

I am shocked how Lexus warranty could do this. I am now concerned if they will use this wear & tear excuse every time as my car is 10 years old and 113k in mileage?

Is there any point me having the warranty?

Last time they refused to cover headlight adjuster saying it was wear & tear and cost me £700 to replace.

I brought warranty from Lexus expecting better service rather than any other 3rd party warranty.

Guys, thank you for your support during the past 24 hours, I am grateful for your kindness.

Shahpor · August 12, 2016

Well, this is odd cause I just spoke to Lexus Warranty myself and asked them about the GS 450h hybrid Battery.

The guy I spoke to was absolutely clear that it was covered by the warranty. He even stated that they don't wear out. In fact, he told me that they had approved a claim for one today, which could very well have been yours Saul.

He also stated that as long as the car was less than 10 years old and within 140,000 when the warranty was purchased, then it doesn't matter how old or used it is during the covered period. (By the way, my car is 8 years old and had 120k miles on it when I last claimed).

I have made a couple of claims on mine, and they have been quick with no hassle, so I still think the warranty is worth it. It is just a strange, and hopefully a one off, situation that you have found yourself in.

Glad it is sorted now though.

Saul.Lex · August 12, 2016

11 minutes ago, Shahpor said:

Well, this is odd cause I just spoke to Lexus Warranty myself and asked them about the GS 450h hybrid battery.

The guy I spoke to was absolutely clear that it was covered by the warranty. He even stated that they don't wear out. In fact, he told me that they had approved a claim for one today, which could very well have been yours Saul.

He also stated that as long as the car was less than 10 years old and within 140,000 when the warranty was purchased, then it doesn't matter how old or used it is during the covered period. (By the way, my car is 8 years old and had 120k miles on it when I last claimed).

I have made a couple of claims on mine, and they have been quick with no hassle, so I still think the warranty is worth it. It is just a strange, and hopefully a one off, situation that you have found yourself in.

Glad it is sorted now though.

Thank you Shahpor, It was a shocker yesterday when they refused it. I think they are trying it on. I also realise the warranty is provided by TWG - http://www.thewarrantygroup.com/ and not Lexus. Do you think headlight adjusters should be covered under the warranty? There is no clear definition what wear & tear is and what is mechanical failure. How do you prove that? I also see a clause in their T&C and worried they might use this if I have any future claims as my car is over 10 years.

(e) The repair or replacement of any Protected Part has not suffered a Mechanical or Electrical Failure.