Scum - stolen car

[lotusdave]

14.2 is day light robbery. Hopefully somewhere around 19 which id be happy with if it were mine. Indeed I doubt mine is worth that but yours sounds better than mine. I've got kerbed wheels (my fault), stone chips (normal!) and the most annoying bit the leather in the drivers seat side bolster isn't great. Sounds fab though and hopefully some sod won't steal mine.

[Womble72]

Have been following this thread, think the whole insurance system is a con, we all pay a premium to protect our possessions and expect a fair/replacement value in return, one thing I do know is the ombudsman fee is paid for by the insurance company, something they don't want to pay, my car is a 58 plate with 53k, sunroof model and non mainland tax liable, so even harder to replace, I wouldn't contemplate anything under 20k for mine n fight all the way, these are not your normal run of the mill M3-C63 type cars, surely a rarity  MUST come into the financial factor of replacing.......I thought insurance companies where now obliged to replace not compensate so to reduce fraudulent claims??......good luck with your battle

[aidanjaye]

5 hours ago, lotusdave said:

14.2 is day light robbery. Hopefully somewhere around 19 which id be happy with if it were mine. Indeed I doubt mine is worth that but yours sounds better than mine. I've got kerbed wheels (my fault), stone chips (normal!) and the most annoying bit the leather in the drivers seat side bolster isn't great. Sounds fab though and hopefully some sod won't steal mine.

Yep, mine had no chips, 4 new tyres, new brake pads, just serviced, interior has zero wear in bolster....so agree, happy with 19k.

Just have to wait and see I suppose. Hopefully here something back on Monday / Tuesday - if not I will be pestering further.

Womble72 - Ombudsman , I believe, is paid out of a fund that all financial service companies have to contribute towards, based on earnings.

[lotusdave]

each complaint costs the insurer a set fee something like 500quid. So its funded by firms that have complaints made against them. I run a Pensions advisory business so if we have a case against us, no matter how spurious, we have to pay (but get a couple of free cases each year so in reality they don't cost us either, as we get very very few complaints)

you get a result, an appeal then the actual ombudsman makes a binding decision. So three attempts to get your case over.

[aidanjaye]

2 hours ago, lotusdave said:

each complaint costs the insurer a set fee something like 500quid. So its funded by firms that have complaints made against them. I run a Pensions advisory business so if we have a case against us, no matter how spurious, we have to pay (but get a couple of free cases each year so in reality they don't cost us either, as we get very very few complaints)

you get a result, an appeal then the actual ombudsman makes a binding decision. So three attempts to get your case over.

Is that three attempts after you have contacted FOS.?

 

[lotusdave]

they give you an answer. You appeal. You get a second answer. You appeal again and a final binding answer is issued and published on their website. Only the final appeal is published. Have a look for evidence that might support your case.... You never know what you'll find.

[aidanjaye]

As promised - update on final outcome. To say I'm disappointed is an understatement.

Ombudsman has final ruled that what insurer paid out is market value. They have said if I want to take it further, contact a lawyer.

So white ISF with FLSH, 67000 mile, 58 plated, is worth £16400 max!!! If you follow that depreciation, then in three years you should be able to pick up an ISF for 3K.

With that in mind, please think wisely before insuring your pride and joy via Admiral. I for one will never use their services again.  My wife wants to put all this behind her, so therefore don't mind naming insurer now, as wont be going down the lawyer route.

And to be fair, will probably never even consider contacting Ombudsman services in future. Waste of time. Independent??? not from where I am sitting. Maybe I am cynical?? In fact, yes I am.

If car is recovered no doubt insurers will punt it on. Just be aware if you come across a cheapish white ISF 58 plate that it may have been mine and should be recorded as stolen recovered - and on Admiral figures, should be worth a lot less than £16400, which is what an A1 vehicle is worth. It has a few things that only I would recognise on car so I know it would be mine - if in doubt get in touch. I will let you have plate number by PM.

 

Lastly - sincerely hope none of you guys / girls on forum have the same happen to you. At the end of the day its only a car - but the thought of being fleeced once by car thiefs, and then again by insurer, is annoying. Anyway, going to put whole situation to rest.

Cheers for all the comments over the five pages

 

 

 

[Warrington guy]

Jesus ..... I'm with admiral and a muti car policy. Thanks for the info

[Mark G]

That is real bad news Mark, my faith in the ombudsman has dropped after seeing the final settlement figure, I have never been the insurance industries biggest fan, this just beggars belief!!!!

[lotusdave]

oh my god that's appalling. I'm insured with them too.

is that the final fos letter? If so it should be on the fox website duly redacted.

bastards.

[aidanjaye]

16 minutes ago, lotusdave said:

oh my god that's appalling. I'm insured with them too.

is that the final fos letter? If so it should be on the fox website duly redacted.

bastards.

Yep final letter from senior ombudsman. As I wont be taking it any further, have no reason not to share responses with you guys and just hope it highlights what you'll be up against if something untoward should happen.

 

THEM - The ombudsman’s has now reviewed your response to his decision and he’s asked me to pass on his comments, highlighted in red below:

US - “Our policy from Admiral stated that insurance was in place to cover  "cost of replacing YOUR car with one of a similar condition, age, mileage". This is simply not possible with Admirals settlement, and can easily been seen from looking through classified - something that the Ombudsman S*** H****** has said he hasn't even done (final section of his reply). This checking of classified would have taken a very short time as currently only 13 vehicles for sale.

THEM - I have commented on the information Mr and Mrs S sent in the last paragraph of the background – so I’ve taken into account what they say they believe is a fair value  

US - He has stated that this is the final decision, but we want either to pass the issue to another Ombudsman who will take time and study classified, else give me contact details of department and we will do so directly.

 THEM - The final decision is our last word on the complaint. Another ombudsman, not even the chief ombudsman can take a look at the merits of the case. As Mr and Mrs S haven’t accepted my decision it doesn’t become legally binding. So they may be able to take their case further outside of our service but they may want to seek advice on what they might be able to do (Solicitor or CAB for example).”

THEM - Noted comments and as expected, in favour of insurer.

Seems in this circumstance that they both the thief and insurer came out on tops in the unfortunate car theft incident.

As you can imagine we are very disappointed with outcome.

As my wife wants to put all this behind her, and try and forget about whole incident, I will have to consider our future route.

Meantime will advise others via various forums the outcome of insuring a car for market value, only to be given trade value of a high mile cat C car.

No doubt if car is recovered, Admiral will sell it on probably for more than the settlement figure. I will be following classifieds closely and also checking DVLA to ensure the vehicle doesn't reappear without being registered as stolen recovered. This will take up some of my free time but I feel strongly about this.

[Ceramicolive]

If you do a little digging you quickly find out about the FOS, ( Extract taken from another site)

Unfortunately you've found out the hard way that the FOS is a business, It serves big companies, it is NOT in the interests of the FOS, or it's staff to screw its customers (Firms). It is however, in the interests of the FOS to screw you and send you on your way, with the belief that an “independent” body has passed “Judgment”

The FOS is a “complaints handling” service

According to their website – their “customers” are firms, financial and otherwise!

I have a few issues over at the FOS, and they are not being handled properly (in my opinion). So I made a few Freedom of Information requests and this is what I found out. Decide for yourself whether these guys act for you – independently of their “customers” (firms).

This is how the FOS works, any firm can pass a “complaint” to the FOS for handling, this usually takes place after 8 weeks if the “firm” is unable [OR UNWILLING] to resolve a complaint. The matter will then be referred to the FOS, and you will be invited to write out your complaint again on FOS forms. (This will naturally deter a percentage of people).

The FOS is a private arbitration Court/service; their decision is binding on the firm. But it is NOT binding upon you!

For having access to the FOS, each firm will pay annual fees + each firm will pay approximately £450.00 per case referred to the FOS.

In relation to credit and finance, the industry funds the FOS complaints handling service. This is a clear “conflict of interest”

There is a lot more out there and it makes for some uncomfortable reading i'm afraid.....

[aidanjaye]

Well I did a little digging and have to agree with post above......FOS is a business funded by businesses. This I imagine is much the same as Classification societies who govern vessels at sea. Who pays these classification societies?? Ship owners. Disgruntled or disagree with what Class say - change the Class society you use. But I digress.....

Seems insurers have conferences.....one of which "might" be called  LOVE CLAIMS....lol. These conferences are ticketed entry. Now I'm sure the guest speakers are paid from ticketing costs?? I wonder if FOS members are ever guest speakers?

Maybe I watch to much TV and my imagination runs overtime. I'm still not sure of moon landing......JFK......aliens and all that.

[aidanjaye]

It gets better - the FOS have just sent me a survey to complete regarding how they handled my complaint.

[JonP]

Thats really interesting. Wife and I have 3 cars between us and I was considering to their multi car policy...... Until now.

[lotusdave]

fos is funded by the industry so its free to consumers. I own a financial services business so see it from the other side too.

I want to read that final judgement to comment further...but thebsettlement is in no way representative of the value of the car.

[lotusdave]

makes me wonder about a specialist policy with an agreed value. Might look into that.

[emjay82]

They should be pulled up for false advertising, maybe all the car insurance adverts from now on should be.....insure 85% of your car with our multi policy.... and perhaps the police will start pulling over drivers as we only have 85% car insurance!?!? This is shocking and very sorry to hear the outcome of your case!

[Flytvr]

Yep, disgusting. It shouldn't be necessary, but...... GAP

[doog442]

£16.5K appears to represent a part ex / trade in price for your car..am i wrong ?

A few similar cars at dealers for £18.5K plus ..age and mileage./..even a 2011 at a dealer for £18.5k ..doesn't help your case.

I always thought a total loss would be a trade in value as they have no idea of the state of your car when it went 'walkies'....

[aidanjaye]

1 hour ago, Flytvr said:

Yep, disgusting. It shouldn't be necessary, but...... GAP

You will be lucky to find GAP for second hand vehicles of this age......also agreed value wont work as its not deemed "a classic".

57 minutes ago, doog442 said:

£16.5K appears to represent a part ex / trade in price for your car..am i wrong ?

A few similar cars at dealers for £18.5K plus ..age and mileage./..even a 2011 at a dealer for £18.5k ..doesn't help your case.

I always thought a total loss would be a trade in value as they have no idea of the state of your car when it went 'walkies'....

Agree if car was a dog (when it went walkies...) with above normal mileage....£16400 seems right, or I was PXing it. policy wording stated "cost of replacing YOUR car with one of a similar condition, age, mileage". Less than a week before car was nicked it was serviced by Lexus and had a three page health check stating car was A1 in everyway. This was forwarded to insurer but mattered not a jot. 12 cars at moment for sale second hand (which is average). The 11 plate you mentioned must have some underlying issue - otherwise at that price it would have been snapped up. FWIW - a cat C was listed at over 16k a few weeks back.

To be truthful I expected a figure in the high 18s for my car as a settlement. I was offered £14200 firstly , then upped to £16400 was roughly 2.5k less than cost of a replacement "of a similar age mileage and condition". Car was stolen nearly 4 months ago, which probably accounts for a few hundred quid in depreciation (or about 2 grand if you use Admirals math).

[lotusdave]

agreed gap won't work on my 08 car. Plenty of the lotus community have agreed value on "mundane" Elise and variants. I'll speak to the specialist who does my lotus (not agreed value) but my problem will be 10k mikes a year and business use.

I still don't get where they got that value from. However, its only money and you got very, very unlucky to have it nicked. No one was hurt. #glasshalffull

[emjay82]

I took out GAP insurance and the policy was 'back to invoice/price paid'. it cost me about £150 for a 2 year policy. I would have thought this would cover the shortfall offered by the insurers?

[lotusdave]

yes it does but gap only works on new cars. reis, my lotus insurer, won't offer agreed value as its not considered a classic or specialist sports car. They have offered ordinary terms though which I'm tempted with because maybe a niche insurer would me more reasonable? Who knows. Bastards they really are bastards.

[lotusdave]

well new ish. Not eight years old.