Car purchase- HPI what does it mean

jackcramerr · June 29, 2016

So paid a deposit for a car. Did an hpi check and it came out as high risk due to higher purchase.

What does this mean?

johnatg · June 29, 2016

That'll be Hire Purchase. It means the records show that the previous owner has not cleared his debt with the finance company, and the finance company may therefore still have a claim on the car. It may well be that the records haven't kept up with payments made by the previous owner, but you MUST get confirmation that the debt has been cleared before proceeding.

rayaans · June 29, 2016

8 minutes ago, jackcramerr said:

So paid a deposit for a car. Did an hpi check and it came out as high risk due to higher purchase.

What does this mean?

As above -

Who did you buy the car from? Also, it is very common to have this issue - its sometimes because the database hasnt updated yet. But be sure to make sure its totally cleared before you pay the remaining balance.

jackcramerr · June 29, 2016

The owner said there is no debt on it. Then I did HPI check. And it came with this alert. Then I called the debt company and they confirmed there is debt on it.

The owner was pushing me for a quick sale. He says he is being questioned for low selling price and he cannot make the deal as I prologned the payment even though I had agreed for full payment tomorrow.

I agreed to full payment today and he said he will discuss this with directors. He later increased the price saying what he mentioned on auto trader was ex vat.

I did not agree to that and requested for refund.

He agreed to that and said the car got sold at the ad price which includes vat... I am confused...

Was there something dodgy or did he get better offer and use this tactic to break out of the deal? Why did the ad had ex vat price and he never mentioned it ? Why did he never mention this on phone or emails? And when the deal was off why did he email saying he sold the car at ad price which has vat?

It was a good deal and I am trying to understand if I did something wrong. I did ask him a few times for any debt, his vat number and additional pictures to confirm VIN on car with log book. I also arranged for cars health check.

In the event if this was a genuine guy, and if I was to go forward with the deal, how will I know if the car is free from debt? Wondering if he was planning on selling it and then clearing the debt? How am I protected?

ahmedali44 · June 29, 2016

I think most people don't bother with him checks take sellers words, if if was ex vat then he has to vat registered. I.think he was trying to pull fast one on hoping u wouldn't do hpi.if u bought car then u would have been responsible for outstanding finance.he must have sold to some poor person who didn't bother to do hpi.was it a garage??? @ what car was it???? Obviously he didn't want to give u car details because he was dodgy

Bluesman · June 29, 2016

My son nearly got caught in this scam. They price the car minus any taxes in the certain knowledge that anyone replying has already half sold it to themselves with a low asking price and when you are sat in their premises the salesman becomes very aggressive the taxes dont go on the car untill they write up the invoice which includes credit fees, admin fees, car servicing and of course taxes by then you are so frightened to say no they've got you. The sooner the practice is outlawed the better.

One more thing I doubt he had sold the car, he said that to make you feel bad. Hope you get your deposit back.

Bluesman · June 29, 2016

1 hour ago, jackcramerr said:

The owner said there is no debt on it. Then I did HPI check. And it came with this alert. Then I called the debt company and they confirmed there is debt on it.

The owner was pushing me for a quick sale. He says he is being questioned for low selling price and he cannot make the deal as I prologned the payment even though I had agreed for full payment tomorrow.

I agreed to full payment today and he said he will discuss this with directors. He later increased the price saying what he mentioned on auto trader was ex vat.

I did not agree to that and requested for refund.

He agreed to that and said the car got sold at the ad price which includes vat... I am confused...

Was there something dodgy or did he get better offer and use this tactic to break out of the deal? Why did the ad had ex vat price and he never mentioned it ? Why did he never mention this on phone or emails? And when the deal was off why did he email saying he sold the car at ad price which has vat?

It was a good deal and I am trying to understand if I did something wrong. I did ask him a few times for any debt, his vat number and additional pictures to confirm VIN on car with log book. I also arranged for cars health check.

In the event if this was a genuine guy, and if I was to go forward with the deal, how will I know if the car is free from debt? Wondering if he was planning on selling it and then clearing the debt? How am I protected?

Always believe what the HPI company tell you, if there is a query you can always question the answer, if however you go ahead and later find the finance company recovering their car you will lose all your monies.

Vintagesixtysix · June 29, 2016

You're well clear of that deal!

Don't beat yourself up over the whats and why fors. Somethings not right & you have done the sensible checks.

Well done....& move on.

There are so many stories of bailiffs etc turning up at legitimate folks houses taking vehicles with outstanding HPI / log book loans etc.... And the poor souls have not a leg to stand on because the vehicle was not the sellers to sell..... Still technically owned by the finance company.

Your dealer will be aware and maybe intended to settle the outstanding loan with your hard earned dosh out of his margin..... But if they hadn't or you had God forbid gotten into a write off situation.... Then all kinds of sh*t then ensues.

Well out of it.

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jackcramerr · June 29, 2016

I got refund but I am trying to understand if it was a con then how would it have worked?

Surely the debt company will go after him as well.

Example:

Price of the car was 42,500 on ad. We agreed. Paid deposit. weekend comes and on weekday I email him if for some more pictures to show VIN on car, log book etc and asked if car is free from any debt .he emails me deal is off if payment is not made by the end of the week. Reason being he is being questioned why selling the car so cheap and he is getting better offer. I agree and even offer I am willing to pay more deposit if it secures the car. He does not ask for more deposit. He sends me only V5C copy.

I arrange the car to be checked by a dealer 5 miles away from him. And I email the guy asking for additinal pictures to confirm VIN, ask if the car is free from debts. He emails be back deal is off today as his directors do not agree and there is more politcs than Tory. He also questioned why the car needs to be checked. I said I want to make sure and I am paying for the expense.

I again convince him and tell him I am willing to pay full price now. Because deal was going faster than I had expected, I did an HPI check.

He comes back to me saying the value of the car is 51,000 due to 20%vat I get shocked and tell him that is not what we agreed on. This was never mentioned and deal if off. Ask him for refund. A few emal exchanges take place and he then agrees. I get refund.

He then emails me saying he sold the car for 42,500 including vat!.... Question is, why did he then say 51,000...

Anyway, how was he trying to scam me? Did he sell for 51,000 or 42,500? Why did he not disclose the car is in debt?

jackcramerr · June 29, 2016

It is not minor taxes we are talking about that he would have gotten away with. Is there a chance he wanted to pull out of the deal as I had negotiated a good deal?

ahmedali44 · June 29, 2016

You asked too many questions that why he pulled out. If u bought car finance company will b after u not him,the person he alleged sold car too probably didn't ask soo many questions and probably didn't even do hpi.check autotrader if car is still for sale @ if it's on sale get someone else to call. u been saved from being conned.any 1 u act like that I will pull out first then bells should b ringing as why is he acting strange.why would he disclose debt on car as he wanted to scam someone. Once money exchanged log book on ur name it would have been ur problem not his.

mikeyv · June 29, 2016

Well out of it jack....if in doubt just walk away, the world is full of second hand cars.

As others have said, as the owner of the vehicle, you would have either had to clear the debt, or watch it taken away, then tried to chase the bloke who sold it to you, guess how easy that would be!.

jackcramerr · June 29, 2016

I didn't add one detail that makes me confused. The guy is a not in car trade but the car is on his business name. And this person is all over internet. So why would he want to try a scam? He is not even young person....

jackcramerr · June 29, 2016

Right... I record my conversations for notes and I noticed this guy tried to change his voice and pretend he is a staff member... wth...

mikeyv · June 29, 2016

15 minutes ago, jackcramerr said:

I didn't add one detail that makes me confused. The guy is a not in car trade but the car is on his business name. And this person is all over internet. So why would he want to try a scam? He is not even young person....

Bet I can guess who you are talking about.

Give us another clue, like location.

jackcramerr · June 29, 2016

South West England... I don't want to disclose much detail unless I know for certain it was a scam.

Vintagesixtysix · June 29, 2016

If he's not trade...

The only ligit reason for changing wether VAT was applicable to the sale if owned by a business was that he did not realise until he had advertised the vehicle at a price he would have had to pay VAT on the sale as the vehicle was qualifying due to the business being VAT registered and having claimed the VAT back on the original purchase.

Grasping at straws here to try explain his behaviour......does not explain all the other stuff though.

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jackcramerr · June 29, 2016

I missed out one of his email where after he says that there will be vat...soon after that I pull out and ask for refund. He then says company agrees to the first price that was discussed. But I missed this email and kept demanding deposit as I freaked out.

So he did go back to his original price...

Still makes me wonder of the debt... why did he not discuss that when I asked him twice in email and once on phone directly. I would be happy to have worked something out. i.e. he clears the debt and I pay him full or we agree to something with the finance company.

Bluesman · June 30, 2016

Don't waste anymore of your life wondering where the logic is, just be thankful you have your hard earnt money back and use your energies looking for a straight dealer and car.

Vintagesixtysix · June 30, 2016

Bluesmans comments +1

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toffee_pie · July 3, 2016

lucky escape, what was the car out of interest?

jackcramerr · July 3, 2016

A Merc AMG series.

It is still listed there and seen a price reduction since.

If only the seller was honest and said the car is in debt. I would still have considered it and sorted things out with the finance company. No idea what the process would be ... but I guess the finance company would have guided.

toffee_pie · July 3, 2016

move on, why beat yourself up, this guy is not honest. plenty more honest sellers out there.

dodgey car dealers will always be with us........

Linas.P · July 4, 2016

5 hours ago, jackcramerr said:

A Merc AMG series.

It is still listed there and seen a price reduction since.

If only the seller was honest and said the car is in debt. I would still have considered it and sorted things out with the finance company. No idea what the process would be ... but I guess the finance company would have guided.

Process is pretty simple - pay outstanding debt and the car yours. I guess if you pay in one instalment they could do a little discount....

But that said ... I am not even considering that as an option... you basically pay for the car twice. Once for yourself and second time for the previous owner who has outstanding debt.. Basically, selling car with outstanding debt is almost equal selling stolen car .. it is stolen from financing company, the only difference the cost is transfered from previous owner to new one. Unless you get same amount of discount (or actually bit extra considering all inconvenience)... then it might be viable... But still if seller lies about debt, how do you know there is nothing else? It is simply dishonest seller you need to stay away from.