Is250 sensible mileage?

[kris250]

Hi all,

Still deciding between the IS250 and a 325I however I have a potential IS250 that I may be interested in. It has all the features I want - fully loaded SE model - however it has done 123K miles.. full service history though - is it worth buying? Or is this too high mileage? What price should I be looking at for it? Its a 2006 auto

 

Thanks

[Brechin Slate]

Kris

 

I've had my IS250 since December last year, it had 107,000 miles on when I picked it up, now it's on 113,000.  It is as smooth as a cashmere codpiece and is in great condition.  Getting over 43mpg mixed motoring and it's fast and responsive when you floor it.  Mine is on a 56 plate (Jan 2007) and I would buy it again now if I was looking for a car.  Had it serviced by Lexus a couple of months ago, they do a special service for higher mileage vehicles.  I paid less than 5k for mine with 6 months warranty and I would have paid more if the dealer had been more insistent.

Hope this helps

[kris250]

Its definitely difficult finding one with all the toys and sub 100K mileage.. The ones that meet those requirements are simply overpriced..

[bobmc]

13 minutes ago, kris250 said:

Its definitely difficult finding one with all the toys and sub 100K mileage.. The ones that meet those requirements are simply overpriced..

Depends what you consider overpriced. Auto's have the best reputation, and dealers know this and price accordingly. Again, the 100K mileage is a psychological barrier for a lot of buyers and this also affects dealer prices.

 

[kris250]

Maybe I'll just drop the sound system and sat nav. Not like I'll be using the sat nav anyway!

[bobmc]

I understand what you mean about the sat nav, most mobiles these days do as good a job but I do feel that the sat nav improves the appearance of the dash, otherwise it looks a bit like a BMW .  The sound system is a personal choice, but it's one of the brands unique features and will help a resale in future.

 

[Shahpor]

Well, mine is a diesel, but apart from the drive train, it is the same.  I bought mine with 109,000 miles on it, and after a year it has 118800 miles on and it has been faultless.

As for spec, if you want all the toys, you could hold out for a SE-L.  It took me a while longer to find mine since they are not as common, but I am glad I did.

[kris250]

10 minutes ago, bobmc said:

I understand what you mean about the sat nav, most mobiles these days do as good a job but I do feel that the sat nav improves the appearance of the dash, otherwise it looks a bit like a BMW .  The sound system is a personal choice, but it's one of the brands unique features and will help a resale in future.

 

Fair dos but is 50,000 miles extra + 1.5K on top of that worth the satnav? :P 

 

I love the dynamic route finder you get on the GPS apps on phones nowadays, really useful when navigating through rush hour traffic in London

[Linas.P]

These cars are very reliable and 123k nor 150k is non-issue if looked after. Mine is now over 150k without major issue. Lexus IS250 will always be much better value for money than BMW 325i and will come much better equipped. Not sure what you mean by SE - because SE is basic trim level, while SEL is the best. So I guess you need to be looking for SEL either with or without sat-nav. 

My advice don't take FSH as some kind of indicator - look what was actually done. Mine had £1200 spent on average during each service as was really well maintained. There are certain mileage related items e.g. Water pump .. if it is 123k it must have been replaced at least once. Average pump life time ~90k, mine one was replaced at 122k which is probably one of higher end of mileage. I would take this Lexus even with 200k miles without worries if history can prove all necessary work was done in timely manner. So when you take all service history invoices .. look for last 3-4 and check if there were no advisories which were not covered in subsequent services. Checking MOT advisories on DVLA can give some indication as well e.g. if tires, disks, pads were wearing low or car failing emission test - stay away, likely to be rough one.

I would advise for back interior - obviously personal choice, but black one wears much better and I guess it becomes concern for high miles car. I have bough 2010 AWD with 40k km (~25k miles) light grey interior and it looked worn out and was very hard to clean. Even after professional cleaning it was looking like car had covered much more than those 25k miles. Some can be attributed to how previous owner was caring after it, but at the same time my current back interior after 150k+ miles still looks almost new... 

Finally, point about Sat-Nav... Had 2012 IS250 F-Sport with Sat-nav and later 2010 IS250AWD without it... my personal opinion Lexus IS sat-nav is sub-par to comparable models, screen is low resolution, not great in sunlight and very unresponsive to touch. If it happens to be in the car you looking after - great. If not it is nothing you would miss. I am using my phone for short journeys - just because of mealtime road alerts and proper sat-nav for longer journeys making sure maps are updated. Lexus sat-nav in not good for neither of those, map updates expensive and even then still missing many recent changes. 

 

[kris250]

38 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

These cars are very reliable and 123k nor 150k is non-issue if looked after. Mine is now over 150k without major issue. Lexus IS250 will always be much better value for money than BMW 325i and will come much better equipped. Not sure what you mean by SE - because SE is basic trim level, while SEL is the best. So I guess you need to be looking for SEL either with or without sat-nav. 

My advice don't take FSH as some kind of indicator - look what was actually done. Mine had £1200 spent on average during each service as was really well maintained. There are certain mileage related items e.g. Water pump .. if it is 123k it must have been replaced at least once. Average pump life time ~90k, mine one was replaced at 122k which is probably one of higher end of mileage. I would take this Lexus even with 200k miles without worries if history can prove all necessary work was done in timely manner. So when you take all service history invoices .. look for last 3-4 and check if there were no advisories which were not covered in subsequent services. Checking MOT advisories on DVLA can give some indication as well e.g. if tires, disks, pads were wearing low or car failing emission test - stay away, likely to be rough one.

I would advise for back interior - obviously personal choice, but black one wears much better and I guess it becomes concern for high miles car. I have bough 2010 AWD with 40k km (~25k miles) light grey interior and it looked worn out and was very hard to clean. Even after professional cleaning it was looking like car had covered much more than those 25k miles. Some can be attributed to how previous owner was caring after it, but at the same time my current back interior after 150k+ miles still looks almost new... 

Finally, point about Sat-Nav... Had 2012 IS250 F-Sport with Sat-nav and later 2010 IS250AWD without it... my personal opinion Lexus IS sat-nav is sub-par to comparable models, screen is low resolution, not great in sunlight and very unresponsive to touch. If it happens to be in the car you looking after - great. If not it is nothing you would miss. I am using my phone for short journeys - just because of mealtime road alerts and proper sat-nav for longer journeys making sure maps are updated. Lexus sat-nav in not good for neither of those, map updates expensive and even then still missing many recent changes. 

 

This is what I was after!

Any other issues I should be looking out for? Aside from the water pump? What should I look for when actually viewing the car - anything specific? I'll also be paying a mechanic to do an even thorough check over the car before I commit to anything.

[Linas.P]

Before committing to travel, check car previous MOTs in DVLA - I have as well bought online car check for like £4.99 to check car history. If anything weird there as the dealer and if they have no reasonable answer then I guess it end here...

Drive it - Lexus IS is very silent and comfortable car, you shouldn't hear any noise or strange sound when driving, gear changes smooth, steering effortless. Only uncommon sound you could hear is Direct Injection clicking (similar to diesel injector clicking), but that is only when standing in front of car, not from inside.

I would check it myself visually - it is little you can say, but if it is not first car you ever buying you might catch something to negotiate the price. If car looks "straight", body lines and gaps are ok, then it is about it. Take all - even minor issue and negotiate the price based on that e.g. my seller was very honest and upfront - car was mainly used on highway and high mileage, hence many stone chips and my price was already adjusted to that. But consider any scratch is a body panel - £150 to fix. Other minor things like brake rotors, tires.. you can straight away put the price in equation - new tires on 17" £400, if unevenly worn, then add another £70 for all wheels alignment. If rotors have pronounced lip (1mm+) or that will require rotors and pads replacement other maintenance parts - most likely front will be an issue - official Lexus price £359, realistically about £60 for rotors and £30 for pads. Replacement if straightforward.

Then next step is obviously looking through the papers... I can try to summaries main point to look for when back to home. I must admit I have skipped this part last time, but got lucky with it.

I have made a mistake with "mechanic". So my advice if two above passes - buy the car (you have buyer protection by law) and take it to Lexus dealership for "Essential care: Minor"... they will do most comprehensive visual safety check, but most importantly "they know the cars", so if it is lemon they going to pick it up straight away - you can even mention you just bough it and not sure if it is any good, so gives them additional reasons to check it. In additional you will get fresh filters, oil, wash&vac. As well AA and RAC have no other initiative except your payment - Lexus dealership makes money from fixing cars - so it is in their interest to find issues with it. That said take their inspection with pinch of salt - they might advise to fix something which is not really broken, but in other hand it could be the great way to negotiate the price with dealer... You can even mention you will take it to Lexus, if dealer is honest and car is not lemon there is no reason to be afraid.

When you get estimates it is really up to you - if the price of fixing is reasonable and dealer have mentioned something verbally about that you might pay up and enjoy the car. If the price is clearly nothing alike you expected and far from impression dealer description, approach dealer and as for refund to cover part of the service or return the car using. In the worst occasion you will be £145 out of pocket, but AA and RAC wouldn't be much cheaper and they would do only inspection, no oil, no filters... 

One thing - do not consider modified cars.. that is good sign to stay away.

[kris250]

17 hours ago, Linas.P said:

Before committing to travel, check car previous MOTs in DVLA - I have as well bought online car check for like £4.99 to check car history. If anything weird there as the dealer and if they have no reasonable answer then I guess it end here...

Drive it - Lexus IS is very silent and comfortable car, you shouldn't hear any noise or strange sound when driving, gear changes smooth, steering effortless. Only uncommon sound you could hear is Direct Injection clicking (similar to diesel injector clicking), but that is only when standing in front of car, not from inside.

I would check it myself visually - it is little you can say, but if it is not first car you ever buying you might catch something to negotiate the price. If car looks "straight", body lines and gaps are ok, then it is about it. Take all - even minor issue and negotiate the price based on that e.g. my seller was very honest and upfront - car was mainly used on highway and high mileage, hence many stone chips and my price was already adjusted to that. But consider any scratch is a body panel - £150 to fix. Other minor things like brake rotors, tires.. you can straight away put the price in equation - new tires on 17" £400, if unevenly worn, then add another £70 for all wheels alignment. If rotors have pronounced lip (1mm+) or that will require rotors and pads replacement other maintenance parts - most likely front will be an issue - official Lexus price £359, realistically about £60 for rotors and £30 for pads. Replacement if straightforward.

Then next step is obviously looking through the papers... I can try to summaries main point to look for when back to home. I must admit I have skipped this part last time, but got lucky with it.

I have made a mistake with "mechanic". So my advice if two above passes - buy the car (you have buyer protection by law) and take it to Lexus dealership for "Essential care: Minor"... they will do most comprehensive visual safety check, but most importantly "they know the cars", so if it is lemon they going to pick it up straight away - you can even mention you just bough it and not sure if it is any good, so gives them additional reasons to check it. In additional you will get fresh filters, oil, wash&vac. As well AA and RAC have no other initiative except your payment - Lexus dealership makes money from fixing cars - so it is in their interest to find issues with it. That said take their inspection with pinch of salt - they might advise to fix something which is not really broken, but in other hand it could be the great way to negotiate the price with dealer... You can even mention you will take it to Lexus, if dealer is honest and car is not lemon there is no reason to be afraid.

When you get estimates it is really up to you - if the price of fixing is reasonable and dealer have mentioned something verbally about that you might pay up and enjoy the car. If the price is clearly nothing alike you expected and far from impression dealer description, approach dealer and as for refund to cover part of the service or return the car using. In the worst occasion you will be £145 out of pocket, but AA and RAC wouldn't be much cheaper and they would do only inspection, no oil, no filters... 

One thing - do not consider modified cars.. that is good sign to stay away.

Great. I'm having a look at one tomorrow from a dealership with part service history. They advised me that the car will be fully serviced and checked over before it's handed to me and anything that needs fixing will be fixed. It also comes with 3 months warranty. Is having part service history a huge concern? Its just over 100K miles but it does have everything I want so..

 

[Linas.P]

Does part means - part Lexus, part independent? Then it should be fine - just check what is on that "part". If everything was replaced then it should be fine. I won't really be concerned with independent service as long as there are no missed services and no advisories kept for long time. 

Finally, I guess 3 month warranty tells most of the story - if anythings goes wrong they either fix it or take car back. 

Good luck!

[kris250]

2 hours ago, Linas.P said:

Does part means - part Lexus, part independent? Then it should be fine - just check what is on that "part". If everything was replaced then it should be fine. I won't really be concerned with independent service as long as there are no missed services and no advisories kept for long time. 

Finally, I guess 3 month warranty tells most of the story - if anythings goes wrong they either fix it or take car back. 

Good luck!

Yeah, also just did a check on the car. 

 

Last service was at 80K miles in 2013 - current mileage is 104K.

Last MOT showed 6 advisories including front tyre puncture and rear tyre puncture/legal limit with front brake disc and pad wearing thin. Dealership says this will all be sorted out however.

[Shahpor]

The advisories aren't that bad considering what they are, as long as they are rectified of course.

What about the rest of the MOT history?  It can show signs of neglect.

More worrying is the service history.  Personally, I wouldn't consider a car that hadn't been serviced in 24k miles and 3 years.

 

[kris250]

18 minutes ago, Shahpor said:

The advisories aren't that bad considering what they are, as long as they are rectified of course.

What about the rest of the MOT history?  It can show signs of neglect.

More worrying is the service history.  Personally, I wouldn't consider a car that hadn't been serviced in 24k miles and 3 years.

 

The car has had quite a few owners and it just seems like the last owner didn't bother. Aside from those advisories there was two advisories from the previous years mot - one being damage to the windscreen (probably a chip or something) which I assume has been repaired since its not on the latest MOT. The other was worn front disc pads again, which I think the owner didn't bother to change again which is why it was shown again on the latest MOT.

The advisories will 100% have to be sorted before I commit to anything, in addition to that I'll probably have it inspected by Lexus as Linas pointed out. I also have 3 months warranty if anything does crop up so I'm fairly optimistic about the car. The advisories and lack of FSH also give me a good bargaining tool so I'm hopeful!

[kris250]

18 minutes ago, Shahpor said:

The advisories aren't that bad considering what they are, as long as they are rectified of course.

What about the rest of the MOT history?  It can show signs of neglect.

More worrying is the service history.  Personally, I wouldn't consider a car that hadn't been serviced in 24k miles and 3 years.

 

The car has had quite a few owners and it just seems like the last owner didn't bother. Aside from those advisories there was two advisories from the previous years mot - one being damage to the windscreen (probably a chip or something) which I assume has been repaired since its not on the latest MOT. The other was worn front disc pads again, which I think the owner didn't bother to change again which is why it was shown again on the latest MOT.

The advisories will 100% have to be sorted before I commit to anything, in addition to that I'll probably have it inspected by Lexus as Linas pointed out. I also have 3 months warranty if anything does crop up so I'm fairly optimistic about the car. The advisories and lack of FSH also give me a good bargaining tool so I'm hopeful!

[Shahpor]

Well, again the windscreen isn't a problem really, although the worn pads are a little strange.

I took mine to a Lexus dealer the same day I bought it for a visual safety inspections.  Not a complete once over, but since I was buying an extended warranty, it had to be done.  It does add some reassurance if they don't find anything wrong with it.

I would get your car checked at the dealer as soon as possible if you do buy it since the less time between, the less chance the seller has to claim the fault occurred after it was sold.

Other than that, if you are happy with it, then yes, some good bargaining tool can be used.  Although I am finding it more and more that even small independent dealers are not willing to haggle.  I ended up paying list price for mine, although I did get a service and a new tyre included.

[Linas.P]

Well IS250s are reliable cars and neither 80k, not 104k miles are "high" for them. Though from description I would be worried, advisories popping up for several MOTs, one service missed, and no other stamps for 3 years?! (generally you should do one service every 10k miles or every year.. whichever comes first) ... not good signs. Form description it sounds like car was really neglected in the course of last 24k miles.

In other hand 3 month warranty and all issues fixed before sale sounds like reasonable mediation of the problems. If the car was cared for before and now all issues will be rectified.. especially if you take it to the Lexus afterwards and comes without issues .. It might be acceptable

I think it all depends on the price now - as I have previously stated "there are no too rough cars, there are just too rough cars for the price".

P.S. you can check if car had recall for fuel sensor... because if not you will get free safety inspection together with recall.

[kris250]

3 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

Well IS250s are reliable cars and neither 80k, not 104k miles are "high" for them. Though from description I would be worried, advisories popping up for several MOTs, one service missed... not good signs. Form description it sounds like car was really neglected in the course of last 24k miles.

In other hand 3 month warranty and all issues fixed before sale sounds like reasonable mediation of the problems. If the car was cared for before and now all issues will be rectified.. especially if you take it to the Lexus afterwards and comes without issues .. It might be acceptable

I think it all depends on the price now - as I have previously stated "there are no too rough cars, there are just too rough cars for the price".

P.S. you can check if car had recall for fuel sensor... because if not you will get free safety inspection together with recall.

That is true, just checked and the Lexus site says " We have identified that your Lexus is subject to a voluntary customer service campaign or outstanding safety recall. " - So I'm guessing this is for a recall for some sort. Like you said, if the previous owner neglected the car - I highly doubt they bothered to have it booked in for an appointment. 

I'll see how low I can get the price down to tomorrow and let you all know! Will probably make a deposit too if at the right price as they did say several people are coming tomorrow and on Saturday.

[kris250]

7 minutes ago, Shahpor said:

Well, again the windscreen isn't a problem really, although the worn pads are a little strange.

I took mine to a Lexus dealer the same day I bought it for a visual safety inspections.  Not a complete once over, but since I was buying an extended warranty, it had to be done.  It does add some reassurance if they don't find anything wrong with it.

I would get your car checked at the dealer as soon as possible if you do buy it since the less time between, the less chance the seller has to claim the fault occurred after it was sold.

Other than that, if you are happy with it, then yes, some good bargaining tool can be used.  Although I am finding it more and more that even small independent dealers are not willing to haggle.  I ended up paying list price for mine, although I did get a service and a new tyre included.

I don't think they can really stay fixed with this one. A car with this many advisories and service history missing - I think is a good bet! Also asked over the phone and was told to "come down to work out a deal" so I'm hoping for a few hundred off at the very least.

[Linas.P]

I wonder now if car can be "clocked" - don't you think 6k miles per year is too little? In other hand might be completely genuine? What are gaps in mileage on MOT?

If car was really driven for only 6k miles each year.. then I guess it is even less of an issue - with such low mileage owner probably though service is unnecessary, rather than being greedy and neglecting it.

[kris250]

13 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

I wonder now if car can be "clocked" - don't you think 6k miles per year is too little? In other hand might be completely genuine? What are gaps in mileage on MOT?

If car was really driven for only 6k miles each year.. then I guess it is even less of an issue - with such low mileage owner probably though service is unnecessary, rather than being greedy and neglecting it.

Good question -- heres the MOT history

 

Sept 2010 - Sept 2011 at 45K

March 2012 - March 2013 at 72K

March 2013 - March 2014 at 80K

April 2014 - March 2015 at 96K

March 2015 - March 2016 at 98K

March 2016 - March 2017 at 104K

 

Not sure if this gives you any indication of clocking, only 2K miles driven between 2014 and 2015 though. I'll also be checking the overall condition of the car in and out to see if it matches the mileage. The leather inside did look good condition in the pictures but it was black leather so couldn't see that well.

 

 

[Shahpor]

Perhaps it might be easier if you just posted the advert assuming it is on a website?

As for the mileage, I don't think low usage is that unusual.  I have done 2k miles in a year before.  Depends on if you stay local or not and whether you commute in your car.  I used to take the train to work, so a lot of days it wouldn't get used at all.

What happened to 2011's MOT?

[kris250]

1 minute ago, Shahpor said:

Perhaps it might be easier if you just posted the advert assuming it is on a website?

As for the mileage, I don't think low usage is that unusual.  I have done 2k miles in a year before.  Depends on if you stay local or not and whether you commute in your car.  I used to take the train to work, so a lot of days it wouldn't get used at all.

What happened to 2011's MOT?

I actually wondered the same thing. I have no idea. Looks like the car had no MOT from Oct 2011 to March 2012.. 6 months. Odd. Maybe the car wasn't being used?