Another Legal ?

[DaveEllen]

OK,

Every monday & Tuesday I train it up to London.

I park the Lex in Abbey wood station car park (run by private contractor)

One day I got back to find a ticket (I'd paid) looked as to why twas coz the ticket was upside down. Was blowing a gale so it must have flipped over

So I wrote to them apologising etc enclosng ticket & thought thats that.........

2 months later & 4 letters later I've a debt collection agency chasing me......

They say as i breached the conditions by not displaying my ticket properly I have to pay.

I checked the term & conditions & guess what....they say tickets must be prominetly displayed..........I argue that it was prominently displayed on my dashboard just inverted

prominently is not properly..........

Also as I charge the cost to my client its no odds to me to pay.......

So any car park ticket wizards out there ?

I've already sent them a bill for my time

anyone have any caselaw I can quote ?

Ta

Mr Angry

[Fargo]

if it was upside down (as in the letters not visible), it was upside down and the penalty ticket would have been issued correctly.

They could also argue that is your responsibilty to make sure you have displyed the ticket correctly even after you had shut the door.

however for your info, someone my area (hillingdon) had succesfully overturned turned there penelty ticket..there residents permit had been blown onto the floor of there car, they sent a photocopy in to the council and they said ok no problem..

[DaveEllen]

Interesting.............but lawyers make a lot of dosh from misplaced commas etc......

the parking order says prominently displayed if it would have said properly I would have a weaker case..........

I check the sign every day as I bet it will be changed for a reworded one soon !

let battle commence :winky:

[Dodgy]

DaveEllen,

I’ll do so digging my only concern here is that it was a private company. But just so I’ve got this right.

You bought a ticket put on your dashboard and if you were to look from the front of the car into the windscreen the ticket was upside down. But if you were to walk around say to the driver’s window it would be the right way up and readable.

I have a mine field of case law :duh: i'll do my best

[DaveEllen]

DaveEllen,

I’ll do so digging my only concern here is that it was a private company. But just so I’ve got this right.

You bought a ticket put on your dashboard and if you were to look from the front of the car into the windscreen the ticket was upside down. But if you were to walk around say to the driver’s window it would be the right way up and readable.

I have a mine field of case law :duh: i'll do my best

Dodgy,

Thanks for your help..

To be honest you would have a hard job seeing it, which is a pity but theres no point in bull :tsktsk: ing.

I never stick em down as the glue is a sod to remove.........just that the wind must have caught it...........

What annoys me is that no one reads what I say (or so it seems)

back to the parking order............I was told once that if you said on a parking order that only red cars could park on a monday you could give a ticket to any other car parking there.............similair rule that allows councils to give tickets to cars with no road tax :winky:

in my case it was worded wrongly...........so I say !

[Fargo]

dave.. i a little confused.. did you simply have the ticket upside down, as in the lettering showing the time you got the ticket was still facing up.

or do you mean the lettering was upside down as in facing the dash and hidden from view.

[DaveEllen]

The wind blew the ticket upside down so the attendant saw the advertising blurb.

It was on the sta nav bit.

[Rodders_UK]

The wind blew the ticket upside down so the attendant saw the advertising blurb.

It was on the sta nav bit.

So Dave, how could the attendant have possible verified that the ticket was valid?

[imi]

That happened to me at the local car park, my was accidentley displayed facing upside down, so you actually saw the advertising logo 2, i too got a fixed penalty notice of not displaying a valid ticket..

SO i actulay went down to the Department of Transport and showed them the ticket and the penalty notice, explained my case and didn't have to pay anything B) all was done and dusted in 2 mins..

Same thing happend to a freind of mine too, he had no problems with his case either..

The person on the desk only said that as long as the ticket was valid during the time of the penalty was given, it was ok.

[DaveEllen]

So Dave, how could the attendant have possible verified that the ticket was valid?

I agree with you in that he could not.............but I explained why and sent the ticket & covering letter within 1 hour of getting home..........

The crucial point is the terms & conditions state prominently displayed not properly..........

I would expect to get off once with this explnation but not twice.

[Fargo]

Could they not argue that a VALID ticket is to be diplayed PROMINETLY.. and as the warden couldnt say the ticket was valid, you got a fine.

[tony_hetherington]

My Dad had exactly the same situation. Closed his door, the draught blew the ticket upside down (numbers facing dash so advertising blurb facing up).

He had a ticket (quite rightly) and so sent off letter saying he did have ticket, but it obviously blew in wind. Also, this ticket did not have capability to stick to window (basically just bit of paper) so he put in his letter that this was the cause. They cancelled the ticket immediately no probs.

Realise it doesn't help you in your situation, but thought I'd mention it - perhaps a bit more arguing will get it sorted!

[mudzs]

Problem with presenting the ticket is they can say that the ticket was not yours because all you you have to do if your ticket runs out and you get a fine is to wait in the carpark until someone comes back and ask for their valid ticket and send that in ,so sending the ticket will fall on deaf ears .Hence why a lot of car parks get you to type in the first digits of your reg number so then it is only relevent to your car .If it was me dave i would pay it as the fine will just keep going up the longer you leave it and once a debt collecter is called your name gets blacklisted and getting credit etc becomes hassle as it shows up on thier checks as it did with me when i did not pay my mobile bill one time .And i was refused a mortgauge because of it .

[DaveEllen]

I'll contest it in court........I've already sent them a bill for my time.

I'll be sending a reminder and counter sueing them in the small claims court if they dont pay

Prominently = not on floor or hidden

Properly = displayed showing enough detail for attendant to see if ticket valid or not

They will not go to court they are relying on bully boy tactics......I'm fairly sure noone above tea boy has even looked at it yet.

Had a similair thing with a car parking ticket after I sold a car with LB Barnet went all they way until the car parking appeals tribunal saw my submission and the case was dropped

Too many official bodies try and bully you

[kev dood]

Sorry Dave but I think you are gonna loose this one. If you look in a dictionary it shall something like the below.

prom·i·nent

(click to hear the word) (prm-nnt)

adj.

Projecting outward or upward from a line or surface; protuberant.

Immediately noticeable; conspicuous. See Synonyms at noticeable.

Widely known; eminent.

or

prominently  [show phonetics]

adverb

A photograph of her daughter was prominently displayed (= in a position where it could be seen) on her desk.

Therefore, as your ticket was not in a position where it could be read (i.e. a prominent one), you are liable for a fine.

[Scorpion]

This seems like its getting out of hand a bit as you say you can pass on the cost of the ticket to your client,now if you paid it when it was issued then the matter would have been over by now....is this correct or am i reading it wrong?

Just my 2 cents worth.

[DaveEllen]

This seems like its getting out of hand a bit as you say you can pass on the cost of the ticket to your client,now if you paid it when it was issued then the matter would have been over by now....is this correct or am i reading it wrong?

Just my 2 cents worth.

I claim the £2.60 cost back

Cant ask the client to pay the fine !!

If I was pulling a flanker or it happened agian I would pay up & shut up.

[Bazza]

i presume you mean the cost of the ticket is paid by your employer and not the cost of the fine

i must agree with the majority of people on this thread, in that you stand to loose

i wouldnt have thought the stress of all of this is worth it, i know how you feel, thugs win again

i would recommend writing a cheque, sending it off and forgetting all about it, take it as a lesson learnt

[Scorpion]

Gotcha.....

[DaveEllen]

I'm quietly confident as it all comes down to the wording.

My area of work also takes me into legal areas such as judicial reviews and I've lost count of cases where the government has had to rewrite legislation after its been challenged over a wrod word even,comma or full stop.

I've also spent too long with solicitors arguing over similair issues to know there is something in my argument.

Finally I'm not too stressed as I like a good argument

[Scorpion]

Whereas i like an easy life....and to be honest i would of paid them,but thats me and i understand the reason behind your actions.

Good luck

[Bazza]

I'm quietly confident as it all comes down to the wording.

My area of work also takes me into legal areas such as judicial reviews and I've lost count of cases where the government has had to rewrite legislation after its been challenged over a wrod word even,comma or full stop.

I've also spent too long with solicitors arguing over similair issues to know there is something in my argument.

Finally I'm not too stressed as I like a good argument

then mr dave

go for it !!

good luck

[mudzs]

Whereas i like an easy life....and to be honest i would of paid them,but thats me and i understand the reason behind your actions.

Good luck

I agree with scorpion but admire your fighting spirit dave ,Good luck

[kev dood]

tally ho old chap - best of british to you and all that. If you win, its one for the motorists who always get raped.

If not, then ho hum, you know next time.

Anyway, as a dictionary shows, its not in the wording!!