Have you seen this?

[zippyone]

Spotted this on the BBC Technical page, quite interesting, the future looks bright. Wonder if the UK could use a similar system.

Norway's green car sweeteners

Image copyright Thinkstock

• No purchase taxes
• Exemption from 25% VAT on purchase
• Low annual road tax
• No charges on toll roads or ferries
• Free municipal parking
• Access to bus lanes
• 50% reduction in company car tax
• No VAT on leasing

[rayaans]

Im sure Norway is also thinking about banning combustion vehicles from 2020 onwards as well.

Brave move.

 

[ganzoom]

4 hours ago, rayaans said:

Im sure Norway is also thinking about banning combustion vehicles from 2020 onwards as well.

Brave move.

 

 

Affordable 200 mile range Battery EVs are just around the corner, GM/Tesla/Nissan/VW all have products in the pipe line.

Renewable energy generation is now really starting to make head-way, the UK actually has some of the best wind resources in Europe. But countries like Portugal and Germany are showing what's possible.

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/may/18/portugal-runs-for-four-days-straight-on-renewable-energy-alone

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-05-16/germany-just-got-almost-all-of-its-power-from-renewable-energy

Why on earth would any country want to still rely on fossil fuels is beyond me when renewable electricity generation is FREE after initial setup costs, and EVs take away all the inner city air pollution problems in a single stroke.  Far from been 'brave', I would say Norway is showing the world the future is now nearly here.

Can you imagine what the world would be like if OPEC / oil prices had NO impact on the world economy....International politics/relation will sure be very different.

[mpls]

Norway made all its money from Oil..

[mpls]

Perhaps other countries can follow suit, i still think we are still one generation of Battery tech away for it to be more of a policy in countries like UK, USA etc.

What i have is a gripe with the forthcoming tax rule and London congestin charge ( though this does not affect me) in UK,  lumping hybrids  with diesels or petrol only cars. I think Toyota  and Co.  should lobby for fairer treament, in transtion to pure EV or Hydrogen..

[ganzoom]

Nissan, VAG, BMW,  Merc,  Tesla,  GM, Ford all now offer perfectly usable EVs already.  Ive had my Leaf for 14 months,  done 8000 miles with no issues. 

If Toyota / Lexus refuse to embrace the future than they will have to brace for the consequent loss of sales. 

[mpls]

Out of your list  Nissan, VAG, BMW,  Merc,  Tesla,  GM, Ford

Only Nissan  and tesla are anywhere near with useable EV, but for both Range anxiety still exists esecially for the majority of drivers in UK  and also where are the charging points around the country, are they readily accessable ?, hence my point about "one generation" away for EV re: Battery technology.

 

VAG, BMW, Merc, GM, Ford  whatever they have now is not mass market and still use current Ge Battery technology, and at what cost..  and still will have same range anziety as Nissan and Tesla, where are the charging points ? are the as prevailant as petrol stations ?

I do not believe for one moment that Toyota/Lexus are behind with EV tech, they jusr haven;t released any products. rememebr they spend huge on R&D They are keeping on top of Battery technology, and can strike on 2 fronts, pure EV or Hydrogen. This after all from a company  that has used batteries in their many hybrids. They know their stuff,,,or they will buy it in...

When we see Battery tech that allows 400+ miles per charge  and charged in tens of minutes rather than hours,( for a saloon sized car), that is when Battery tech is ready..  I've recently  read about 2 promisig areas of research...  both lithium  'xxxxxx'  , not the current  litium Ion. When the Gigafactory finay opens, its tech will aleady be obsolete, hence  I see tesla ging bust or being bought out.. No company that relys on customer desposit as working capital surivives.  Those poor Tesla 3 depositers !

..

[ganzoom]

^

The E-Golf is one of the best selling EVs in Norway. Both the i3 and E-Golf have recently had a 50% upgrade to their Battery. Mercedes B class EV uses the same tech as Tesla. GM are about to start production on the Bolt, the worlds first 'affordable' 200 mile range EV. 

VAG group is now fully committed to EVs,  Porsche will have a full Battery EV out in 2020 which they are touting as the next 911.

Lithium ion Battery tech will continue to improve. Tesla arent far off 120kWh Battery packs,  which at an efficieny of 3.5 miles per kWh is not far off 400 miles of range. The killer is the price, but like all things tech the price will come down. 

As for recharging guess what I can refuel my car at home. No need to waste time finding a petrol station,  queue up,  stand around in the cold. Yes it takes longer but when the car is charging whilst I'm asleep at night it doesn't bother me. I wake up every morning to a fully fueled car. 

The next line of Battery tech is probably carbon nanotube lithium sulphur/silicon batteries. But given the fact Sony released the worlds first commercial lithium ion Battery back in the 1990s and its taken to now for the tech to mature anyone waiting for the next jump in Battery tech before switching to EVs will be waiting for a while... 

And as for hydrogen,  ill leave this here. Essentially surprise surprise using a volatile gas compressed to 700bar (10,000 PSI) as fuel is turning out to be rather more difficult to manage in real life. I repeat compressed to 10,000 PSI,  not 100, or even 1,000 but 10,000 PSI. Honestly do you want to handle something compressed to such high pressure as a fuel?? Spill a bit of petrol not much happens, my Leaf charges using the same power as an electric hob,  but am not so sure the effects of manhandling a gas compressed to the equivalent of been at the bottom of the deepest ocean. 

  In addition each $1 million dollar fuel can only deliver one to two refuels before needing a hour long gap to recompress the hydrogen. Hydrogen tech is already dead, the sooner Toyota faces up to that fact the sooner they will move forwards. 

http://gas2.org/2016/01/15/toyota-tells-dealers-stop-mirai-deliveries/

[mpls]

2 hours ago, ganzoom said:

^

The E-Golf is one of the best selling EVs in Norway. Both the i3 and E-Golf have recently had a 50% upgrade to their battery. Mercedes B class EV uses the same tech as Tesla. GM are about to start production on the Bolt, the worlds first 'affordable' 200 mile range EV. 

VAG group is now fully committed to EVs,  Porsche will have a full battery EV out in 2020 which they are touting as the next 911.

Lithium ion battery tech will continue to improve. Tesla arent far off 120kWh battery packs,  which at an efficieny of 3.5 miles per kWh is not far off 400 miles of range. The killer is the price, but like all things tech the price will come down. 

As for recharging guess what I can refuel my car at home. No need to waste time finding a petrol station,  queue up,  stand around in the cold. Yes it takes longer but when the car is charging whilst I'm asleep at night it doesn't bother me. I wake up every morning to a fully fueled car. 

The next line of battery tech is probably carbon nanotube lithium sulphur/silicon batteries. But given the fact Sony released the worlds first commercial lithium ion battery back in the 1990s and its taken to now for the tech to mature anyone waiting for the next jump in battery tech before switching to EVs will be waiting for a while... 

And as for hydrogen,  ill leave this here. Essentially surprise surprise using a volatile gas compressed to 700bar (10,000 PSI) as fuel is turning out to be rather more difficult to manage in real life. I repeat compressed to 10,000 PSI,  not 100, or even 1,000 but 10,000 PSI. Honestly do you want to handle something compressed to such high pressure as a fuel?? Spill a bit of petrol not much happens, my Leaf charges using the same power as an electric hob,  but am not so sure the effects of manhandling a gas compressed to the equivalent of been at the bottom of the deepest ocean. 

  In addition each $1 million dollar fuel can only deliver one to two refuels before needing a hour long gap to recompress the hydrogen. Hydrogen tech is already dead, the sooner Toyota faces up to that fact the sooner they will move forwards. 

http://gas2.org/2016/01/15/toyota-tells-dealers-stop-mirai-deliveries/

When taxi drivers begin to take them on  (just tlike the original prius) when we get 400+ mile ( UK miles)  and charging times are tens of minutes,  is when EV is ready for the mass market in UK, £30+K  for an e-Golf that can only get me 120-140 miles, still with range anxiety and limited to routes where there coud be charging doesn't sound like fun at all to an average motorist. I cannot go whereever I want. That is my point, you cannot compare Norway with UK.

[ganzoom]

Germany and Holland are both considering banning combustion car sales within the next decade. The reason petrol cars need big fuel tanks is because you have to go to special places to fuel them. Electricty is virtually everywhere in our society. I've charged up my Leaf from a 3 pin plug in a disused barn with no issues. 

Current Battery tech is already at 300 miles of real life range, when was the last time you needed to drive 300 miles in one go??

The limit currently is cost,  and that's falling. Both the eGolf and i3 are not going up in cost despite 50% increase in capacity. Change is coming,  and unlike the wild goose chase that is hydrogen, Battery EVs is now delivering the goods. 

 

[dave1]

For me to drive to visit my mother is a trip of about 300 miles each way. So from Lincolnshire to Dorset I would need to find a charging point that was available (not being used by anyone else) at least once and possibly twice each way. The fact that I might make the journey say 3 times a year is irrelevant since it would not be capable of completing the journey comfortably without recharging. Which can go 300 miles in 1 go? Also traffic and weather conditions would affect the range.

Not sure also how I would recharge at my mother's home unless I had an extremely long cable to connect to her supply.

There is still a lot of improvement made to the finished product.  

[mpls]

Range on EV  has touched 300 miles true , but on the much bigger Tesla S by virtue of the fact that it is a bigger car and has room for more batteries. When the car the size of a golf hits 300 miles range (agin Battery power density doubles)  and costs  half the 31K, is when mass market and is viable but only if chatgng takes tens of minutes too rather than overnight  etc...

Egolf range is UK 118 miles ( cost  from  31K pounds)

Tesla S  range UK 303 miles  ( cost from 53K pounds)

now think about wipers, aircon/heater, entertainment, and realistic range drops, I'm not

I'm not prepared to pay 31K for a car the size of a Golf with the range of 118.. and not being abe to go where where I want. The egolf  is a half a bucket attempt at EV, but if VW can gurantee that if Battery tech improves and they are willing to swap out the batteries free of charge, there will be takers...

 

 

[ganzoom]

1 hour ago, mpls said:

I'm not prepared to pay 31K for a car the size of a Golf with the range of 118.. and not being abe to go where where I want. The egolf  is a half a bucket attempt at EV, but if VW can gurantee that if battery tech improves and they are willing to swap out the batteries free of charge, there will be takers...

 

Which is why the e-Golf has sold in tiny numbers compared to the Leaf/Zoe and even i3, all have the same range as the eGolf, but I'm paying £200/month on a PCP deal with £0 deposit  for my Leaf and I simply give back to Nissan in early 2017 no strings attached. VW have said they will make a 'Tesla killer' for release in 2018/19, so we will see.

Nissan have actually shown off a 60kWh Battery pack that is barely any bigger than the current 24kWh pack in the current Leaf. The reason Nissan aren't selling a 60kWh Leaf is simply because no one will pay £40-50K for a Nissan (GTR aside). But the Nissan factory in Sunderland have already been given the contract to produce this pack for the next gen Leaf. We are now simply waiting for Nissan to show its hand.

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1100775_nissans-60-kwh-200-mile-battery-pack-what-we-know-so-far

Hopefully it'll look like the IDS concept. So 200 miles+ real life range, pro-pilot automated driving software, and a price tag of less than £30K.