24 hours in the rc t200

Carl911 · June 4, 2016

So, this time Lexus borrowed me there latest coupe, the rc 200t in the f-sport package.

ive not driven this engine before so was keen to see how the turbo charged 2lt felt.

i have to say it's a strange bag and I struggled to decide whether I really liked the engine or not.

i have to start with engine note or rather the absence of one. I didn't feel there was much of a sporty note to it which with a coupe that looks this good I'd have liked. The whole engine, exhaust sounds was really rather Vauxhall 1990 cavalier Sri and typically 4 cylinder sounding. You suspect it will perform well but the note is just not that inspiring.

Maybe, Lexus being such a refined brand it's still struggling to let go of the quiet and composed note one would normally expect of the cars.

So ignoring that I jumped in and pulled off.

the new engine is coupled to an 8 speed box so I was expecting some pretty swift response compared to my is250 which its claimed the new engine replaces.

the first thing I noticed was there is this rather annoying gap in the throttle response between applying the gas pedal from a stand still and the car actually moving. It's almost like a delay. Even when you give the car full throttle there was this initial hesitance right before everything wakes up and starts to really get moving. I thought this was perhaps Lexus way of creating a more refined technique to pull off from a stop as apposed to a more aggressive acceleration.

once the acceleration really kicks in part way through first gear then really pulling into second the car did feel very spirited albeit power delivery was very smooth .

once over the initial gearbox hesitance of the mark the gear changes were very good up and down the box. In sport s+ mode the gearbox attends to hold gears longer which was quite noticeable slowing down as I could see the revs much higher as if to hold for a little while in case you reapply the gas to keep the performance maintained.

ultimately though I felt a little under whelmed. Somehow 0-60 in 7 and a bit second although not slow just doesn't quite cut it in a car that looks like it should do it in 5.

Dont get me wrong, it's not a bad engine, it just doesn't set you alight with excitement.

I love the external styling of the rc, it really is eye catching and definitely appealed to the younger generation as I spotted some teenagers turning heads to see what it was.

maybe I'm getting old but I think the novelty would wear off pretty quick for me.

the interior I had was black leather and black plastic trim. I have to say I'm not keen on this combination. It made the plastics look a little cheap. I think perhaps the interior would have looked better with the red leather against the black interior.

At the end of the day I couldn't help feeling like the less adequate slower sibling of the real deal which is the RCF with the 5tl V8. It looks every bit the part but just falls a bit short of delivering.

In my oppinion the new 2lt turbo is going to sit better in the nx as it will offer slightly better performance over the hybrid but without having to prove so much out on the road against other sports coupes and not hatches.

carl

Martin F · June 4, 2016

Thanks for the review, quite interesting as i'm also looking to test drive this engine package sometime.

Just one question, was the throttle hesitation still there in Sport(+) modes ?

Carl911 · June 4, 2016

58 minutes ago, Martin F said:

Thanks for the review, quite interesting as i'm also looking to test drive this engine package sometime.

Just one question, was the throttle hesitation still there in Sport(+) modes ?

I don't think it was quite as bad in sport but was definitely there none the less.

as I say, it's not a deal breaker but it felt like everytime I put my foot down from a standing start there was always this slight delay before the car moved which just niggled me.

will be interesting to hear if you experience the same when you test drive one. It is possible that it was something happening only with the car I drove.

carl

rayaans · June 4, 2016

There is a delay - noticeable but not a huge issue - I believe its to do with the "unintended acceleration" problems in the US

I also recall that the 8 speed gearbox uses some form of artificial intelligence and therefore will "learn" the drivers driving style over a period of time. I was told by my dealer that they reset the system before selling their demos or used cars whilst they go through inspection otherwise it'll shift according to someone elses driving habits. Whether thats true or not is anyones guess.

The underwhelming acceleration is probably due to the weight of the thing - its very heavy, more so than the IS and this engine suits the IS more. Its also better mated to the 6 speed boxes in the RX and NX.

Carl911 · June 4, 2016

3 hours ago, rayaans said:

There is a delay - noticeable but not a huge issue - I believe its to do with the "unintended acceleration" problems in the US

I also recall that the 8 speed gearbox uses some form of artificial intelligence and therefore will "learn" the drivers driving style over a period of time. I was told by my dealer that they reset the system before selling their demos or used cars whilst they go through inspection otherwise it'll shift according to someone elses driving habits. Whether thats true or not is anyones guess.

The underwhelming acceleration is probably due to the weight of the thing - its very heavy, more so than the IS and this engine suits the IS more. Its also better mated to the 6 speed boxes in the RX and NX.

Sounds about right. If you floor it off from a stand still then it wasn't as noticeable and was probably fine but the annoyance is for 99% of normal driving you'd pull off carefully which just didn't feel right.

i think sometimes Lexus IS just being too Lexus..

carl

Linas.P · June 4, 2016

I must admit I have not driven 200t, but it is about same thing can be said about IS300h. I really like styling of these cars and looking forward to get one maybe in a years time ~ something ~2 years (used approved from Lexus). But the engine is real dilemma for me.. as I have previously stated there is big gap in Lexus line... There are 2 - kind of eco friendly over sensible options and the straight bonkers RC-F. I really believe RC350 is perfect option in between, but it will never make to UK...

RC 300h is rated better almost by everyone, it is more refined and not much slower than 200t... while as well benefits from hybrid technology aka "green car"... Though I have not tried RC, IS was super comfortable to drive and I guess perfect car for my daily commute. But really missing something to stand for the styling...

Not sure it this is right comparison, but I had Passat CC with 2.0t and it was crap. Simply the engine from Golf GTI is not fit for large and heavy car... it seemed like engine power was always at wrong time and overall under powered. Maybe that is not good comparison for RC .. but this is something what I am expecting from RC 200t... under powered under all condition and when pushed to the limits feels like engine will die any moment.

RC really is shouting for 3-3.5l V6 or V8... maybe not as mad as 5.0 RC-F... but not current options either.

wendle · June 7, 2016

i am surprised they didn't put the 3.5 ltr V6 engine from the GS 450h in it.

Linas.P · June 7, 2016

18 minutes ago, wendle said:

i am surprised they didn't put the 3.5 ltr V6 engine from the GS 450h in it.

They did... maybe not one from GS 450h, but there are certainly RC 350 over the pond. Sadly it will never make to this side (same as IS350 or AWD).

Linas.P · December 6, 2016

Just looking around and this specific RC200t is the cheapest RC in UK (VX16WXO) - http://usedcars.lexus.co.uk/used-RC/RC-200t/2.0-F-SPORT/Cheltenham/12681153-605600054-1979516.aspx?srcmdc=se_na_re_

+ I guess one could agree some kind of discount.

ISJason · December 6, 2016

Just to say that when you mention underwhelming exhilaration , I beg to say this is subjective , as most people who have never been in a sports car before would be enthralled by the power, I guess people who have been in sports cars often are the ones who would detect a slight difference in power delivery.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Linas.P · December 6, 2016

This is exactly the case - when I get back from holidays and using some 1.6L banger I feel like my IS250 gained at least 200hp and turbocharger and I am flying. So feeling is indeed subjective, which brings us to objective information like hp/torque and 0-60 times. The objective information is that in fact both RC200t/300h are unreasonably slow cars for the price and for the market they represent and lesser cars representing compact, sub-compact, value markets can actually intimidate Lexus sport coupe drivers with better "exhilaration".

Now whenever Lexus could do something to improve that subjective feeling of speed and acceleration or actually improve the performance and make driving more bearable is another question. Again my subjective feeling is that they didn't and they should have.

NemesisUK · December 6, 2016

The RC in whatever guise is not and was never meant to be a sports car. It's a Grand Tourer and in my opinion acquits itself very well. Coming from a supercharged 5.4 V8 I can appreciate RC is not a traffic light drag star but cruising the UK's A and B roads it's very credible. Super relaxed at all legal speeds, confident through the twisties and with sufficient mid-range urge to get past those 'Sunday drivers'. Oh, and it looks the dogs danglies

Linas.P · December 6, 2016

I don't agree RC is Grand Tourer, to be honest it was never marketed or designed to be one. Everything about RC - which as mentioned in another thread stands for Radical Coupe is about entry level sports coupe as it can get, LC might be grand tourer not RC.

Starting from it's platform of entry level luxury saloon.. it is IS coupe and nothing more. It is not even good in grand touring, it is not as economical at motorways speeds (actually IS250 is more economical at 90MPH), not as big to put everything you need for grand touring. I do agree that one could survive long journey in RC due to its brilliant seats and comfortable driving position. I would agree that it is Casual Tourer... but nothing Grand.

Grand tourer is typically the biggest car of the company, often in coupes shape.. That is very evident... BMW 6 is a grand tourer, MB S-Coupe is another grand tourer. But Lexus RC class competitors are BMW 4 series, MB C-Coupe which are all "entry luxury coupes" and not grand tourers.

NemesisUK · December 6, 2016

The Mercedes SL is a grand tourer. An example of a smaller car. GT is more to do with drive characteristic i.e. effortlessly covering long distances, which the RC does.

Of course this is all subjective. Having masses of power, or at least far more than can be exploited on UK roads, can be very relaxing or in my experience, frustrating. Hence my choice of the 300h over the RC-F

Unless one is routinely crossing the Continent, the more modestly powered car is much kinder on one's nerves (and license!).

MNMJ · December 6, 2016

I've not driven the RC300h, but when I had an IS300h for a day, I stepped out of it thinking "if I was driving 30,000 miles a year, this would be a perfect car". I imagine the RC would be even more serene

Linas.P · December 6, 2016

Grand touring is when you get from Devon to Milan overnight, not when you do London>Birmingham>Liverpool>Manchester>Sheffield and back to London in a day.. every day for 220days a year. Driving 30k miles a year is not ground touring... it is laboring. I agree if you doing high miles RC...mmMMB C220d is the perfect car for you.. or E220d or BMW 520d. Definitely, not petrol or any kind of hybrid.

I don't want to be wikipedia hero, but you can have a look yourself:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_tourer - "A grand tourer (GT) is a performance and luxury automobile capable of high speed and spirited long-distance driving."

As clearly mentioned - "much misused term, eventually signifying no more than a slightly tuned version of a family car with trendy wheels and a go-faster stripe on the side."

To be honest it is not even related to the topic, the classification of RC in the market, Lexus range and comparison with hierarchy of the competitors not going to make any difference to sluggish acceleration and lack of power (or more importantly missing option in the product range).

As you have already mentioned MB SL... it is classed as sport coupe/grand tourer aka hybrid of both. If you look at MB hierarchy it sits class below Limousine (S-class) and two classes below "proper" GT cars S-Coupe or CL-Coupe. MB currently boasts as the only German manufacturer offering "full size GT car". Cannot let it go without noticing that unlike RC, SL posses one crucial GT characteristic - even 1954 300SL Gullwing did 0-60 in 7.4s... that is more than 60 years ago and in last 3 decades SL's were all around 5-6s, because for GT cars 7.5s is embarrassment (don't forget performance is part of requirement). I completely agree that grand touring is not only about acceleration, much more about high cruising speed, but that is again not RC300h/200t strong side, it is much better in the city driving and bendy rural roads at speeds 40-60MPH. Cruising over 70MPH is not economical and again as I said the only GT feature in RC are those comfortable seats. It definitely doesn't have what it takes for "high speed spirited driving".

Back to smaller GT cars Lexus LC seems to be representing that segment of SC/GT... there are other examples as well, but the points is that RC type is clearly defined in the product range and the market... and it is entry level sports (luxury) coupe. When it comes to BMW.. to be honest they no longer have proper big GT cars either... that used to be 8-Series (equally as MB making it flagship of the brand.. above 7 Series). What they have is something similar to SL class.. SC/GT hybrid in the form of up-sized 6 series. Obviously, they have 6 GT version, which is just marketing term to describe saloon and has nothing really to do with car being more fit for Grand touring.

Now I am not saying you cannot grand tour in RC... You can go to southern France in Renault Espace, Audi A6 or Prius, but that doesn't make them GT cars.

Carl911 · December 7, 2016

Perhaps the gs450h fills the gap better, it's big, luxurious, 3.5litre, 0-60 under 6 seconds and capable of sitting at three figure speeds all day with ease. I have always thought the GS is the best compromise in the range between sport and comfort.

carl

Linas.P · December 7, 2016

Probably it does, that is the reason I am thinking, Lexus was careful no to introduce too much models who would compete each other. Now if you have RC350, maybe somebody going to chose it over RC-F or GS450h... which would lead ultimately to lower profit margin.