Nitrogen Inflation

Mike Peter · May 30, 2016

Hi Guys,

Can anyone put some light on filling tires with Nitrogen instead of compressed air? Are there any benefits, noticeable difference?

mikeyv · May 30, 2016

Yep, this was on fifth gear a couple of nights ago, Tiff Needell did a few tests, came to the conclusion that it wasn't worth the bother.

F1 used it, but under strictly controlled conditions, even then the benefit was marginal.

The program was a couple of years old, but I doubt anything has changed since.

Arqum · May 30, 2016

hi mate, i have them in mine and it really changes the ISF feel for the better. I am running 40Psi all round and never needed a top up since i have been running on it for 2 years now. Kwik Fit do it so pop down there.

Peter P18 · May 31, 2016

As already mentioned, nitrogen is a no brainer really. Cheap to do (was £1.50 a tire at Kwik Fit last time I seem to think?), and won't need checking anywhere near as often as with normal air (most people get a check up every 12 months or so, but never need any more putting in).

Had a work colleague thank me for the tip a couple of weeks ago. His BMW had the tire monitoring system installed, and when it was really cold weather, the alarms were going off all the time until the tire's warmed up. He had them filled with Nitrogen, and hasn't had any problems since.

Also finds the ride more comfortable, as do I with my IS-F.

Try it. Not much to lose other than £6, and you can't buy much for that these days!

Linas.P · May 31, 2016

Only by saving time Nitrogen is worth more than those £5-6. No more checking for pressure. Inflated with Nitrogen after change of tires and recently checked (8 month later), same pressure (38/40). If I would have had air in the tires I am sure would have checked them 4 times already and spent maybe £8 on those pathetic compressors in petrol stations (at least near me times of free air are gone, and most common going price now is ~£2) , which either doesn't work or don't even inflate to the correct pressure.

gumball3000 · May 31, 2016

Its not for me , i couldn't go for weeks without checking tyre pressures , I dont think anyone should .

Unless your living on a track i dont see any benefit.

Just my 2p.

Insanerb25 · June 1, 2016

There has been a few studies on this one by the NHTSA in America and one by a professor daws. Both run multiple tests at there are a couple rules to weither or not it is worth it.

1 its measured by the area of the tire (is it big or small) the larger the area the more nitrogen has an advantage).

2 it matters on the humidity of the air, air with high humidity fluctuates in temperature greater, and psi changes more. In a high humidity area the advantages of nitrogen are stronger

3 it depends on the activity of the vehicle, driving around in the city at 25 mph its not all that effective, driving on the freeway all the time its worth it, racing on a track is a must

Links to both NHTSA pdf and prof daws study on this page

Please read the pdfs for yourself and dont let people tell you wrong information
http://bvmotorsports.com/home/learn/wheels-2/nitrogen-filled-tires/

mikeyv · June 1, 2016

51 minutes ago, Insanerb25 said:

There has been a few studies on this one by the NHTSA in America and one by a professor daws. Both run multiple tests at there are a couple rules to weither or not it is worth it.

1 its measured by the area of the tire (is it big or small) the larger the area the more nitrogen has an advantage).

2 it matters on the humidity of the air, air with high humidity fluctuates in temperature greater, and psi changes more. In a high humidity area the advantages of nitrogen are stronger

3 it depends on the activity of the vehicle, driving around in the city at 25 mph its not all that effective, driving on the freeway all the time its worth it, racing on a track is a must

Links to both NHTSA pdf and prof daws study on this page

Please read the pdfs for yourself and dont let people tell you wrong information
http://bvmotorsports.com/home/learn/wheels-2/nitrogen-filled-tires/

Tiff Needell mentioned the point about moisture content, and that was part of the problem.

As I posted above, formula1 usage is tightly controlled, in terms of purity, whereas the stuff available to Joe Public contained varying degrees of water, which negated the benefits to a large extent.

He also did a fast lap, with and without, and concluded that there was no difference, either in feel, or lap times.

He also made the point that you should check your tyres regularly anyway, regardless of their content, and anybody that didn't, to use his words, shouldn't be on the road.

DT_Racing · June 1, 2016

This is all going to sound very contrary and as with everything its a personal preferance so bare with me. I know a bit about this (not all but some) having worked for 3 top flight motorsport and manufacturer race teams over 8 years as a chassis dynamicist tyres were basically my focus. All F1 teams run nitrogen in the tyres but to acheive any benefit at all from this the fill has to be at almost 100% purity and completely dry, this is very important. To cycle a set of 4 F1 tyres to 100% purity takes about 1 hour with a stupendously expensive rig and a twin valve system on each wheel. Now this of course is largely irrelevent to us as we dont have this sort of tech at our local kwik fit, however a proper setup should pull air from the sealed tyre first to purge as much atmospheric gas a possible before filling, if this is not the system used then its not worth it. At best you will see a dispacement of about 25% atmospheric gases through a standard nitrogen fill process. This is maybe sounding like I'm on the negatvie side of the fence when applied to a road car but this is where the contrary part comes in. I use Nitrogen. There are other benefits to nitrogen filling, the first is mentioned in previous posts, its dry and wont support moisture, moisture is the worst enemy when it comes to consistant tyre pressure and wheel bead corrosion, the second is that tyre pressure loss will be less, it doesnt stop the defaltion over time but does reduce the rate of loss to the tune of about a 1/3rd less loss over the same time period.

My personal synopsis, I buy expensive tyres, £6 for Nitrogen is nothing, you have nothing to lose and 'maybe' something to gain. I cant feel any difference but knowing its there somehow makes me feel better.

Verbout · June 1, 2016

Do Kwikfit pull a vacuum on your tyre to remove the air and moisture before they introduce the nitrogen, I would be surprised if they did.

Nitrogen in tyres = a bragging point, some have posted that they can feel the difference while driving, you are kidding

DT_Racing · June 1, 2016

I have no idea on Kwik fit. I still have friends with stupendously expensive nitrogen purge systems to hand

Mike Peter · June 1, 2016

So I went to Kwik-Fit yesterday to get my tires done with Nitrogen, it took them only 5 mins to do the whole job. I'm not too sure if they actually done anything. Also I don't know how the process should look like. Don't they need to run tires flat first and refill with Nitrogen? Also, found video on youtube about Kwik-Fit Nitorgen scam...

Verbout · June 1, 2016

Very interesting Mike, not really surprised though.

The fact that air is made up of 78% nitrogen makes the fact that people can tell the difference IF the other 22% is filled with nitrogen more laughable

rayaans · June 1, 2016

1 hour ago, Verbout said:

Very interesting Mike, not really surprised though.

The fact that air is made up of 78% nitrogen makes the fact that people can tell the difference IF the other 22% is filled with nitrogen more laughable

Probably down to the PSI, change of tyres etc rather than anything else.

Or a placebo effect

Verbout · June 1, 2016

Another silly quote from the nitrogen users "I don't have to check my tyres as often"

Tyre pressure is a safety issue, they need checking regularly, pressures, tread and for damage. Just because you fill the tyre with "exotic" gases it does not mean they can be ignored.

Peter P18 · June 1, 2016

I guess everyone has their own opinions on this topic.

Lets all agree to disagree, and move on shall we?!

I personally like nitrogen in my tires, and whilst I still perform visual checks regularly, I don't need to check the pressures as often as I did with normal air, unless I notice an issue.

Also worth mentioning the gauges on the garage forecourts are usually broken or hugely inaccurate. My tires are wearing evenly across the whole tire, not like they did before with air. Granted the RR-Racing USRS has helped with that, but I think the nitrogen has helped as well.

I dont daily my car, so it tends to stand in my garage for several days if not a couple of weeks. I've not lost any pressure whatsoever.

The ride also felt smoother/less harsh on potholes and uneven surfaces. I can't prove that's the case, but I know what I feel pretty well. I used to help setup race cars for friends, so would like to think I know what I'm talking about.

My current tires were fitted new, and inflated with nitrogen from day one by the way. Unlikely therefore I have leftover air in them.

I don't mind a technical discussion, but let's keep it that way. Life is full of sceptics, I get that.

Verbout · June 1, 2016

So Peter, reading between the lines......"Your all wrong, shut up, I'm not allowing you to discuss this matter any more"

Peter P18 · June 1, 2016

That's an Aussie video!

We all know they are crooks! Lol.

Not at all chap. Just saying there are plenty of us with Nitrous that are happy, and plenty who don't see the point in it.

Its a personal choice. Much like only using premium grade petrol in our cars. Some do, some don't.

There isnt a right answer.

Linas.P · June 2, 2016

I don't think I am saying something more than I said before, but my feeling is the same as Peter.

I run higher pressure than standard (38F/40R) and want to keep it that way. I do not trust KwikFit, but I do alignment, tire fitting and nitrogen inflation at local ATS. I have not expected any difference while driving. Some say (like Stig) that nitrogen is more stable and over long run improves wear and even handling when tires getting hot. As correctly pointed out - this is not because of nitrogen, but because of humidity (water content in the air). It is very likely there will be no difference if the "air" 100% dry.

Now from theoretical to the real thing. From experience I can tell that I haven't lost any pressure on nitrogen over 8 month. I do not need to regularly check tire pressure with the gauge (only inspect them visually), and when I did check it was the same as on the day of inflation.

In the beginning I was not that confident, but after 4 month checking the tires there were no pressure loss I am now confident that nitrogen doesn't leak as much as air. To be precise it leaks so little, that I can pretty much drive on it until my tires needs replacement. That said front tires were inflated to 38PSI and when I replaced rears they still were dead 38PSI after 8 month and 12k miles. In mean time I had puncture in the rear 2 weeks before replacing both rears and the repaired tire was filled with air. I have asked to check the pressure before replacing tires and the one originally inflated with nitrogen was still 40PSI, while the repaired one inflated 2 weeks ago was 39PSI. Now you can question whenever that was poor repair, or air, or simply not well calibrated gauge at local garage which was repairing puncture, but the fact is that nitrogen inflated tired didn't leak over 8 month and 12k miles tells all the story.

It is nothing wrong to inflate tires with air and check them regularly if you have accurate enough gauge (the ones at petrol stations probably shows milk fat content), as well as inflate tires with nitrogen for £5 and forget about gauges.

It is entirely up to you, and I guess it depends on expectations. It won't improve lap times, but can save time and give more confidence.

DAW · June 2, 2016

I use nitogen in my tyres and like others have mentioned, find there is pretty much no loss of pressure compared with air filled. A friend had recommended nitrogen on this basis and I too was surprised, after initially repeated checks, that the pressures did indeed remain remarkably consistant. For me this consistancy was the most important reason for doing it to optimise tyre wear, safety and fuel economy etc.

There may not be any other advantages to using nitrogen compared with air, but an advantage is exactly that and there don't seem to be any disadvantages other than the time and minmal cost of getting it done (providing you are not getting scammed of course!!).

steve2006 · June 2, 2016

Having a MIG welder and a cylinder of CO2 I put this in my tyres, being heavier than air this makes the tyres produce more ground force which greatly improves the feel of the steering and vehicle stability.

OK I made that up but am enjoying the debate.... Keep it civil please :)