Mk4 LS400 or Facelift LS430

[mrdoofa]

Hi,

I may soon be looking for another Lexus.

As you maybe aware I used to have a 2002 LS430 which suffered catastrophic gearbox failure.

anyway, I am wondering what the general opinion is about the mk4 LS400 vs a facelift LS430.

Are the facelift LS430s much better than none facelift ones, I'm talking about gearbox problems, heated and cooled seats which were rubbish on my last LS430, is the air suspension more reliable? Are the Steering wheel motors improved? You get the idea!!! Or is it a safer bet to buy a mk4 LS400?

Here is a link to an LS430 which is only about 50 miles from me, what do you think?

http://www.cheshiremotorcarsales.co.uk/used-LEXUS-LS-Dukinfield-Cheshire-807614

 

[ambermarine]

Hi Martin

The question is simply answered in terms of reliability the LS400 is the better option ,several reasons for this the main one being it was 18 years in development.

From the initial concept of the LS400 in 1983 right through to the last uplift on the Mark 4.

With that kind of lifespan on a model the niggles were virtually all ironed out.

The LS430 was basically a stop gap in the Lexus march forward before the all new design of the Ls460 was properly developed and to that end the LS 430 failed on several points most of which have been mentioned several times on this forum.

I was very fortunate to get probably the best example of a LS400 mark 4 when I moved up from my 20 year old mark 1 and I did a lot of research before opting for the mark 4 against a 430 and 460.

I believe that the  Lexus LS400 mark 4 is the best car that Lexus have built to date.

[Malc]

..  and possibly only 50% of the money you're looking at spending on the Ls430 above

Malc

[Oldboy]

I have only ever owned a LS430 and (touch wood !) I have not had any problems so far...I cannot fault the build quality on it. I think when it comes to cars our our age it's always a risk and therefore would recommend buying one that has a good history and caring owner.

Sent from my XT1092 using Tapatalk

[Titch LS]

Martin, I only have experience of owning the mk4 (2000) LS400. I've not had to take it to a garage to for any faults for the past four and a half years of ownership. That is not to say that some small, niggley faults didn't need rectifying when I bought it.  Also, I chose to replace certain parts on the car as maintenance items to keep it running sweet. But overall, it's been the best motor I have ever had by far. I confidently drive it to Germany and back (where my son lives), and even at nearly 150,000 miles it's still a serene driving experience. If I replaced it, I feel I would be downgrading to an inferior motor. The good thing is, it only cost me £2,300 + lpg conversion. I filled up recently in Belgium where lpg was an amazing 38 cents (30p) per litre!

[cruisermark]

i've had my 430 for over 3 years and the only problems i have had is one parking sensor not working - door speaker blowing - fixed cheaply (£12) and the amp packing up which cost £285 to get repaired. other than that all the electrics work including the steering motors - no suspension problems either.

Thats not to say the ls430 does'nt have it's weak spots, - it does such as radiator, suspension an steering motors.

The Mark 4 400 is a very reliable car ( I owned 2) - but its not as refined as the the 430. I think everybody has different preferences, expectations and attitudes therfore will have a varied judgment of the two cars.

My advice is take a lengthy test drive in both preferably one after the other and that way you will be able to compare and decide between the both.

 

[cruisermark]

deleted - double post

[The-Acre]

As far as I'm aware the facelift model is the same under the skin, although it has a 6 speed box, ACC and reversing camera on some.  The radiator set up is the same, and the suspension can suffer the same fate.  I've had three LS400's and all were good, apart from starter motor and exhaust problems.  I then bought an LS430 which I kept for a year, and I had to replace one height sensor and a second hand air con compressor, actually, I've just remembered I had to replace the compressor on a 400 as well.

No offence to any LS400 owners, but the interior does seem dated, and much of the exterior too  (which of course it is being at best 16 years old)  The LS430, even the early one which I have still look pretty good I think, especially the interior which is timeless and superb.  Because mine didn't cost much, although I was lucky to get an exceptional one, I'm happy to enjoy it while it lasts, whether that be months or years.  If you're not bothered about a car being a bit dated then an LS400 is the one to go for for ultra reliability, the difficulty is finding a good example of what is already a rare car.  The LS430 on the other hand is in fairly plentiful supply, but I'd want comprehensive service history.  

I wouldn't be put off by bad news about the LS430, as we've said many, many times, the ones that go on for years without problems rarely get a mention, we only read the bad news. Look at Mark's post above, three years of ownership and very little trouble, I'd be happy with that. 

[Titch LS]

There's no doubt that for overall reliability the LS 400 comes out on top. It has faults but these tend to be less expensive to fix than for the 430 (e.g. gearbox,air-suspension). Having said that, the 430 has an exceptionally nice cabin compared to the 400 and in my view is only marginally behind it for reliability, (if maintained properly). My 400 has the half-wood steering wheel so the cabin doesn't look quite so plasticky as the regular cars. Having to choose between the two cars is a nice dilemma to be in though.

[The-Acre]

27 minutes ago, Titch LS said:

There's no doubt that for overall reliability the LS 400 comes out on top. It has faults but these tend to be less expensive to fix than for the 430 (e.g. gearbox,air-suspension). Having said that, the 430 has an exceptionally nice cabin compared to the 400 and in my view is only marginally behind it for reliability, (if maintained properly). My 400 has the half-wood steering wheel so the cabin doesn't look quite so plasticky as the regular cars. Having to choose between the two cars is a nice dilemma to be in though.

Well said, and not wanting to contradict one of my previous comments I still think the LS400 is a superb looking classic limo.  The thing about the LS430, and this has been discussed, a new radiator is easy and relatively cheap, and the air set up can be replaced with coilovers for around £1,200 inc labour.  It still has the same fine engine as the 400 (with a couple of tweeks) and is a pleasure to drive. 

[mrdoofa]

Thanks for all the help and input so far. What is the best way to check the gearbox for any possible problems and also the radiator? I really like the LS430 and the extra gadgets but am a bit wary after my last experience with one, is it worth tracking down a facelift version?

I also really like the LS400 too!!! I like that it is the original Lexus and don't mind the dated, I mean classic look.

As titch says, quite a nice dilemma!!!

[messi]

Theres no way of checking for potential problems with the radiator and gearbox, just need to replace the radiator.  Even if you buy the face lift model, you will have the same issues. Remember the air suspension problem aswell which is £700 a corner, but apart from that and the subwoofer issue, the steering column issue and rust on the doors issue, and the vsv sensor issue which is 4 hours labour, and the air con pipes corroding, they are nice cars, but if you want a complete reliable car, its the mk4 ls400. 

[Cotswold Pete]

I agree with all the comments here, the 430 has a nicer cabin, not sure if it is any quieter than 400

My Mk4 can be serene most of the time and then some days on some roads it can feel like it is having a bad day.

My only dislike of the 430 is it looks too much like a Merc from most angles, and this is why if ever I had to change it would be for a 460.

The one  thing I would say about my 400 is that it is a great every day - off to work, off the the tip at weekends, fill it with anything kind of car and I do not feel as if I am treating it in a bad way,(I do have to hoover it out on a regular basis) where as I feel if I did have a 460/430 it would have to be my sunday best car.

I think the stereo in 400 is as good as any other LS, and more than enough gizmos to keep me happy.

I guess having been brought up driving Vaux Cavaliers and Ford Sierra, any Lexus is an improvement.

The one really strange thing I have noticed (and this does not make any sense to me) the LS400 always seems to drive nicer at night, could be my weird brain, but this seems to true whether it is an overnight hack to Scotland or a quick evening trip to Cirencester to see a mate.  So maybe try driving a 430 and a 400 in the day and at night.

[Scribe]

Every car I've ever owned has seemed to drive better on some journeys than others, and I've often wondered why.

[Malc]

.....  don't forget also the Ls430 could have non-stainless steel exhaust corrosion issues and also the potential for window delamination .....  these are avoided in the Ls400

Malc

[ste42]

well i cant comment on the 430 but ive had a gs300 and on my 5th ls400 and theres just something about the 400 that totally relaxes you .im rather sad when im pulling up at home thinking of places to go .and they just love motorways unbelievable

[The-Acre]

4 hours ago, ste42 said:

well i cant comment on the 430 but ive had a gs300 and on my 5th ls400 and theres just something about the 400 that totally relaxes you .im rather sad when im pulling up at home thinking of places to go .and they just love motorways unbelievable

Same with my LS430, which is why my very nice Volvo tends to stay at home most of the week.  I've got to chauffeur some friends to Gatwick soon, always a challenge with the winding car park, but a good excuse to fly down the M23! 

[mrdoofa]

I think I will go for a mk4 LS400, I just get the feeling they are a bit better made than the 430 and somehow less risky with less to go wrong. Is it right that the LS400 doesn't suffer the same radiator/gearbox problem which finished my LS430 I had?

Old Baz is selling one at the moment, here is a link:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LEXUS-LS400-AMERTHYST-PEARL-MINT-CONDITION-FULL-LEXUS-SERVICE-HISTORY-LATE1999-/381639417994?hash=item58db7b608a:g:SOIAAOSwXSJXOvcG

Any thoughts? I actually bought the LS430 from him but don't think he could've known about the gearbox about to fail as its already been said there is no test you can do to check it but the rest of the car was great, a few minor niggles here and there but overall a good example.

 

[Malc]

...... the pictures there aren't of the same registration number car !

Malc

[mikeyv]

4 hours ago, mrdoofa said:

I think I will go for a mk4 LS400, I just get the feeling they are a bit better made than the 430 and somehow less risky with less to go wrong. Is it right that the LS400 doesn't suffer the same radiator/gearbox problem which finished my LS430 I had?

Old Baz is selling one at the moment, here is a link:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LEXUS-LS400-AMERTHYST-PEARL-MINT-CONDITION-FULL-LEXUS-SERVICE-HISTORY-LATE1999-/381639417994?hash=item58db7b608a:g:SOIAAOSwXSJXOvcG

Any thoughts? I actually bought the LS430 from him but don't think he could've known about the gearbox about to fail as its already been said there is no test you can do to check it but the rest of the car was great, a few minor niggles here and there but overall a good example.

 

Why does this man keep selling his cars, if he loves them so much?

Might be a great car for all I know, maybe he'll do you a good price, to make up for selling you a dud.

Also, sounds like you need to budget for a new timing belt and associated parts for peace of mind, so worth bearing in mind when considering price.

Anyway, better luck with your next car, whatever you decide on.

[messi]

Personally I wouldnt touch that ls400, I dont like the colour but most importantly no matter what Baz says I dont think its had a 2nd cambelt changed and hes asking too much for it and also the car looks very familier. I think lexuschap sold it to him, and also I dont understand why he keeps selling the car if he likes it so much. He even said in his last ad that he doesnt want an ls430 because of all the problems it has and yet he put a deposit down on a white ls430 only for the owner to change his mind and not sell it to him. 

[ste42]

theres one on gumtree here it needs a timing belt though https://www.gumtree.com/p/lexus/lexus-ls400-mk4-1998/1169615632

[ste42]

the one that old baz has got is very clean

[messi]

Ste42 you beat me  to it, I was just about to send him that same link on gumtree. That looks a real nice ls400. Regarding Baz ls400, id stay away 

[Bluesman]

4 hours ago, ste42 said:

the one that old baz has got is 900 quid dearer than when he got it 3 week ago

From what I have seen of Old Baz every bodies mate is that hes a Dealer he puts on the pretense of being everyones mate to disguise to eBay that he really is a dealer.. Mike.