Window shopping again (450h) !!!

[JeffL]

3 minutes ago, Boxbrownie said:

It would appear so, and NA = naturally aspirated...ie, not turbo/super charged.

Thank you.

[ColinBarber]

The 400h is definitely faster than the 450h but I've never noticed a problem with throttle response on the loan 450h vehicles I've driven, both pre 2013 and post models.

The 4 speed auto box on the RX300 series I makes throttle response/acceleration poor IMO, certainly compared to a 450h.

[JeffL]

19 minutes ago, ColinBarber said:

The 400h is definitely faster than the 450h but I've never noticed a problem with throttle response on the loan 450h vehicles I've driven, both pre 2013 and post models.

The 4 speed auto box on the RX300 series I makes throttle response/acceleration poor IMO, certainly compared to a 450h.

Thank you. I'll be having a test drive before I buy one, so will report back in due course.

[DanD]

I agree, the RX400h, despite being a little less powerful, feels faster than the RX450h. I am not sure whether it is indeed true, or simply that the 450h feels slower because it is quieter due to better insulation (laminated glass etc) and a deeper exhaust note. In any case, I have never felt that the 450h is under powered.... under stated maybe... but not under powered... :-)

Just make sure you don't select ECO mode, which is in my view and gimmick with no real benefit.

[rayaans]

2 hours ago, DanD said:

I agree, the RX400h, despite being a little less powerful, feels faster than the RX450h. I am not sure whether it is indeed true, or simply that the 450h feels slower because it is quieter due to better insulation (laminated glass etc) and a deeper exhaust note. In any case, I have never felt that the 450h is under powered.... under stated maybe... but not under powered... :-)

Just make sure you don't select ECO mode, which is in my view and gimmick with no real benefit.

The RX400h is faster slightly due to it weighing a lot less than the 450h.

[Friso]

Dear members,

Thanks also to your valuable feedback, am now looking to buy an Advance model. Test drove one last Saturday and impressed. Would be grateful for your opinion though on the following example which has been owned by Lexus. This likely explains above average mileage until May this year. Since then, it only added about 3,000 miles. Can't quite explain the need for a tow bar in this case, which probably - together with roof bars and rear underrun - explains the somewhat elevated price tag.  The brake discs seem a little rusty, while two Michelin Lattitude tires are fitted in front and a Pirelli and Dunlop at the rear. The dealer confirmed one of the rear tyres would be changed so that the brand matches, but rather odd to find such a lay-out I guess.

http://usedcars.lexus.co.uk/used-RX/RX-450h/3.5-Advance/Guildford/3266466-606113334-1609620.aspx?srcmdc=se_na_re_

Many thanks in advance for your thoughts.

[rayaans]

9 hours ago, Friso said:

Dear members,

Thanks also to your valuable feedback, am now looking to buy an Advance model. Test drove one last Saturday and impressed. Would be grateful for your opinion though on the following example which has been owned by Lexus. This likely explains above average mileage until May this year. Since then, it only added about 3,000 miles. Can't quite explain the need for a tow bar in this case, which probably - together with roof bars and rear underrun - explains the somewhat elevated price tag.  The brake discs seem a little rusty, while two Michelin Lattitude tires are fitted in front and a Pirelli and Dunlop at the rear. The dealer confirmed one of the rear tyres would be changed so that the brand matches, but rather odd to find such a lay-out I guess.

http://usedcars.lexus.co.uk/used-RX/RX-450h/3.5-Advance/Guildford/3266466-606113334-1609620.aspx?srcmdc=se_na_re_

Many thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Rusty brake discs are due to being kept outside.  Should be fine when driven, it'll just get scored off. 

Car is missing a rear parcel shelf costing approx £300

Should be able to get atleast £1k off that price too.  It's worth between £24-26k dependent on condition.

Make sure they have 2 michelin latitude tour hp and 2 Pirelli scorpion Verde on the back. The Michelins are all season and M+S  rated and shouldn't be mixed with summer Dunlops on the rear

[DanD]

I like the colour combination. You don't see this interior colour very often.

[JeffL]

Looking at the listing information on the Lexus website it does say 'Negotiate on this car' (near the bottom of the page where the contact details are). If I was interested in the car I'd offer £24K to start off the negotiation, you can always agree more, but start low. Good luck.

[Friso]

On 29/12/2016 at 5:56 AM, rayaans said:

Rusty brake discs are due to being kept outside.  Should be fine when driven, it'll just get scored off. 

Car is missing a rear parcel shelf costing approx £300

Should be able to get atleast £1k off that price too.  It's worth between £24-26k dependent on condition.

Make sure they have 2 michelin latitude tour hp and 2 Pirelli scorpion Verde on the back. The Michelins are all season and M+S  rated and shouldn't be mixed with summer Dunlops on the rear

Many thanks Rayaan, in particular for advice on the tyres. Also noticed the rear parcel shelf and was confirmed would be added. Agree on your quoted price range, hence price will have to come down.

[Friso]

23 hours ago, JeffL said:

Looking at the listing information on the Lexus website it does say 'Negotiate on this car' (near the bottom of the page where the contact details are). If I was interested in the car I'd offer £24K to start off the negotiation, you can always agree more, but start low. Good luck.

Thanks Jeff, will let you know how I get on.

[GSLV6]

Good luck with the negotiations Friso....just mention that late Jan, the new registrations essentially devalue the used cars from their pre-Christmas prices LoL!

 

Must admit, my impressions on the post 2012 RX450h initially matched Boxbrownie's impressions.  We had been driving it in ECO mode and it was insufferable, to the extent it was getting on my nerves and I don't use a lead right boot!  Switching to Sport mode sharpened up the response to essentially remove the delay and to hold higher revs.  There should be no inbuilt hesitation as I understand it on Sport mode.  It was a clever marketing trick as pre-facelifts of 2012 and previous which had the USA market "problem" (LoL) of sharp initial take off (well, isn't that the whole point of high torque electric motors kicking in after all?) were effectively neutered in EV an ECO modes.  The standard driving mode, from what I understand, simply was re-named "sport" mode and an extra mode function added via the steering wheel to "deliberately" select the "sharpened" throttle response which just seems to be the same as the standard pre-facelift one!  In other words, there shouldn't be much lag if Sport Mode is selected.  My understanding may not be 100% here, but that's the jist of what I was told when I asked.  

I had a useful day comparing a 450H with a newish E300 estate today.  The Merc wasn't quite as well screwed together as I was expecting, but it was a very impressive drive.  However, it just seemed too large an estate for us and I preferred the more gentle relaxed nature of the RX and dare I say it, I found the merc too firm a ride, so I'll be picking up a 2014 RX next week as decision made. 

[JeffL]

35 minutes ago, GSLV6 said:

Good luck with the negotiations Friso....just mention that late Jan, the new registrations essentially devalue the used cars from their pre-Christmas prices LoL!

 

Must admit, my impressions on the post 2012 RX450h initially matched Boxbrownie's impressions.  We had been driving it in ECO mode and it was insufferable, to the extent it was getting on my nerves and I don't use a lead right boot!  Switching to Sport mode sharpened up the response to essentially remove the delay and to hold higher revs.  There should be no inbuilt hesitation as I understand it on Sport mode.  It was a clever marketing trick as pre-facelifts of 2012 and previous which had the USA market "problem" (LoL) of sharp initial take off (well, isn't that the whole point of high torque electric motors kicking in after all?) were effectively neutered in EV an ECO modes.  The standard driving mode, from what I understand, simply was re-named "sport" mode and an extra mode function added via the steering wheel to "deliberately" select the "sharpened" throttle response which just seems to be the same as the standard pre-facelift one!  In other words, there shouldn't be much lag if Sport Mode is selected.  My understanding may not be 100% here, but that's the jist of what I was told when I asked.  

I had a useful day comparing a 450H with a newish E300 estate today.  The Merc wasn't quite as well screwed together as I was expecting, but it was a very impressive drive.  However, it just seemed too large an estate for us and I preferred the more gentle relaxed nature of the RX and dare I say it, I found the merc too firm a ride, so I'll be picking up a 2014 RX next week as decision made. 

Hi Paul. I see you currently have a 2007 GS300 and I assume that it is the petrol not the hybrid? I too have a 2007 GS300 petrol which I love. Bought it 7 years ago when it was 22 months old and it now has about 61K miles on the clock. Could you report back here on your experience with the RX once you have had it, say, 1-2 months as I'd be interested to know what you think moving from the GS to the RX and how it compares. Thanks.

[GSLV6]

Hi Jeff, yes. I bought mine a few years ago and love the car...just not the bills it's landed us with!

The GS we've found to be deceptively rapid, well mannered with good handling, oh so smooth and refined, compared with just about anything else we've ever owned or driven.  Good economy too for a 3 litre lump.  The transition isn't going to be easy as I know that I'll miss the good points of the GS including a far more comprehensive kit list as standard (including ML stereo, front 10-way adjustable heated and air conditioned seats etc etc etc).  Simply a hell of a lot of car for the money.  We have been unlucky with the bills though due to unexpected failures and at 60K miles too.  All sorted now and good for another 10 years but we just need something a little more roomy and practical for my business and the family, hence the RX.

I'll start a new thread on ownership in due course if that'd help out.

[JeffL]

23 minutes ago, GSLV6 said:

Hi Jeff, yes. I bought mine a few years ago and love the car...just not the bills it's landed us with!

The GS we've found to be deceptively rapid, well mannered with good handling, oh so smooth and refined, compared with just about anything else we've ever owned or driven.  Good economy too for a 3 litre lump.  The transition isn't going to be easy as I know that I'll miss the good points of the GS including a far more comprehensive kit list as standard (including ML stereo, front 10-way adjustable heated and air conditioned seats etc etc etc).  Simply a hell of a lot of car for the money.  We have been unlucky with the bills though due to unexpected failures and at 60K miles too.  All sorted now and good for another 10 years but we just need something a little more roomy and practical for my business and the family, hence the RX.

I'll start a new thread on ownership in due course if that'd help out.

Yes a new thread would be great. I've just spent £600 on rear brakes and calipers, 4 new tyres a few months ago and a new Battery about 12months ago. Apart from that just regular servicing at my local garage once a year, annual mileage 6K. What have you had to spend money on?

[Carl911]

On 23/05/2016 at 5:57 PM, rayaans said:

The RX400h is faster slightly due to it weighing a lot less than the 450h.

On paper the 400h is 0.2seconds faster to 60 and has slightly more torque.

the 0.2 second cost about 6+mpg though.

carl

[Glover]

I've had a pre face-lift 2012 RX450h Advance since May.  This is my first Lexus and it's absolutely brilliant.  I too wanted a sunroof and light interior; mine is mercury grey with ivory interior bought from Lexus Nottingham with just under 25k on the clock.  I run in eco mode all the time and it goes like a train, haven't had any problems with throttle response but I suppose some of our impressions regarding acceleration, handling, ride etc. depends on what we've driven in the past.  With regards to pulling away at roundabouts; I've found initial acceleration is instantaneous as the electric motor or sometimes motors kick in; definitely have no worries about it not responding. 

Must try sport (normal!) mode though given the comments about  even better response and no impact on economy:-)  In the summer I was getting 36-38mpg round town and 38-40 on a run.  This has dropped to 32-33 and 36-37 since mid November (heater and seats on full blast.  Incidentally is there a trick to getting a quick warm up with the heating?  I've had a lot of diesels and they take ages but I thought petrol warmed up quicker and with Lexus being tested in Canada I'd have expected a very efficient heater.  I don't really understand the function of the two auto buttons (one next to the recirculation button) in the heating controls. 

[jamesinchamonix]

Hi Friso.

i had a look at that car a couple of days ago because I too like the interior tan.

just a couple of my thoughts ... the dealer was making out he wanted extra as it has a tow bar...only used for a bike rack , says he .

well , have another look at the boot scuff plate.. it's heavily dented , and so is the back of the middle arm rest. Personally , I reckoned  it's been doing some heavy haulage. 

I personally would insist on a price reduction , because it's clearly had a rougher time than your average RX , and although you and I like the tan , we are a rare breed... come resale time , the first thing that the salesmen will say is....ooh , that'll be hard for me to sell on ! 

Good luck

[rayaans]

9 hours ago, Glover said:

I've had a pre face-lift 2012 RX450h Advance since May.  This is my first Lexus and it's absolutely brilliant.  I too wanted a sunroof and light interior; mine is mercury grey with ivory interior bought from Lexus Nottingham with just under 25k on the clock.  I run in eco mode all the time and it goes like a train, haven't had any problems with throttle response but I suppose some of our impressions regarding acceleration, handling, ride etc. depends on what we've driven in the past.  With regards to pulling away at roundabouts; I've found initial acceleration is instantaneous as the electric motor or sometimes motors kick in; definitely have no worries about it not responding. 

Must try sport (normal!) mode though given the comments about  even better response and no impact on economy:-)  In the summer I was getting 36-38mpg round town and 38-40 on a run.  This has dropped to 32-33 and 36-37 since mid November (heater and seats on full blast.  Incidentally is there a trick to getting a quick warm up with the heating?  I've had a lot of diesels and they take ages but I thought petrol warmed up quicker and with Lexus being tested in Canada I'd have expected a very efficient heater.  I don't really understand the function of the two auto buttons (one next to the recirculation button) in the heating controls. 

The auto button is for switching between recirculation and air from outside automatically depending on air quality  

The trick to warm the car up quick is leave in auto (climate control one). What some people do is leave it on let's say 22 degrees and put fan up to max. All this does is blow cold air out and then warm it up again once the air has been heated  

In auto it should leave fan speed on 0 until the air is warm and then crank it up automatically. 

[Carl911]

8 hours ago, jamesinchamonix said:

Hi Friso.

i had a look at that car a couple of days ago because I too like the interior tan.

just a couple of my thoughts ... the dealer was making out he wanted extra as it has a tow bar...only used for a bike rack , says he .

well , have another look at the boot scuff plate.. it's heavily dented , and so is the back of the middle arm rest. Personally , I reckoned  it's been doing some heavy haulage. 

I personally would insist on a price reduction , because it's clearly had a rougher time than your average RX , and although you and I like the tan , we are a rare breed... come resale time , the first thing that the salesmen will say is....ooh , that'll be hard for me to sell on ! 

Good luck

I do love sales talk. When they were selling by mine to me there were about four on their forecourt. When I was trying to reduce the price they gave me this story about how the weather would be worse this time of year, possibly snowing and how they could sell a 4x4 ten times over so they would not reduce the price. I just laughed and gave them my price. They still played hardball so I reminded them of the long term picture which was servicing and warranty work on both my cars which is worth way more over a few years than the amount I was asking to reduce the car by. They eventually saw the light. Had they not I would have taken my business else where.

ironically those other cars they could sell ten times over are still on the forecourt now several months later.

carl

[GSLV6]

12 hours ago, JeffL said:

Yes a new thread would be great. I've just spent £600 on rear brakes and calipers, 4 new tyres a few months ago and a new battery about 12months ago. Apart from that just regular servicing at my local garage once a year, annual mileage 6K. What have you had to spend money on?

I've covered it elsewhere but this is what I've had to spend out on:

• Complete top end engine strip down and replacement of hydraulic tappets (one at back of engine faulty and knocking as it wouldn't prime due to a blown seal so whilst engine was out and apart it made sense to replace all 24 in case it was a faulty batch). Cost £3,200 (!) but place I bought it from covered £2K of the cost.  Still...
• Two shock absorbers which (I think) = £340 (previous owner had also replaced two of them, so all were needed by 65K miles);
• Bonnet started to bubble where gas strut connected.  Warranty respray or replacement refused because seller had use stone chip repair to the front (ie little paint marker pen to touch up a few stone chips) so Lexus refused to replace or repair as they claim bonnet was "tampered" with).  The cost of repairing, and respraying bonnet and blowing in lacquer to match for the wings was £720.00. It was a superb re-spray job and now with a little weathering in, you can't tell it from a factory fresh car;
• Complete Cat-back exhaust which I think was over £625 fitted (may have been more);
• Front brake pads = £147
• Tyres = £200
• Wheel refurbishment as lacquer went south as did tpms valves:  £340
• New TMPS valves including initial diagnostic tests by Lexus = £384

So basically, it has cost me £3,856 with and additional £2K covered by warranty, and normal servicing costs on top of that, all in a few years on top of its original £9K purchase cost to me.  That's not cheap motoring nor what I expected based on Lexus reliability record.  The car, now, looks mint and drives still as new with £75K miles on the clock.

[GSLV6]

30 minutes ago, Carl911 said:

I do love sales talk. When they were selling by mine to me there were about four on their forecourt. When I was trying to reduce the price they gave me this story about how the weather would be worse this time of year, possibly snowing and how they could sell a 4x4 ten times over so they would not reduce the price. I just laughed and gave them my price. They still played hardball so I reminded them of the long term picture which was servicing and warranty work on both my cars which is worth way more over a few years than the amount I was asking to reduce the car by. They eventually saw the light. Had they not I would have taken my business else where.

ironically those other cars they could sell ten times over are still on the forecourt now several months later.

carl

Yes, sales patter is one of the things that truly puts me off dealing with car sales people because many, I swear, are trained from the same "1001 sales patter phrases" salebook!  I have to say that the current chap we're dealing with is quietly efficient, polite, and to the point which I appreciate.  My own view is that whilst as a nation, we seem afraid to haggle, I know how long the car I'm after has been available (quite a long time) as it's in a price range which still makes people hang off in case they can pick up a Mk4 for not a lot more in a year or two, so there's a dead mans land in between what people want to pay and what the vehicles are priced at.  In my case, to get the sale I was told to forget obtaining a Mk4 in the low to mid 30K bracket within the next 3 to 5 years, which I would gladly have taken a bet on finding within budget in the next 3 years due to the rapid devaluation on these vehicles.

I have a price in mind which is fair to both the dealers and myself.  They'll offer me 20% under private resale value for my GS, and price it for 20% more than resale value, that's how it works, as they have to make a crust, and frankly I couldn't be had with dealing with tyre kickers, so probably will sell it via part-ex.  They know what that car has cost me, and that it's as good as it gets for the year, better than most, so know they can sell it for top dollar.  They know that I know this.  I know that they know that I know this!!  That saves some BS come bartering time as what I want part ex is top dollar and not a penny less.  They also know that they'll lose years of servicing and warranty income if they don't seal a deal with me, as you say, worth way over the price reduction I want.

New registrations are shortly due out with "17" plates ready to fit. That reduces forecourt value of used stock to a potential purchaser, and looking at pricing of used stock, we all know that's worth up to a grand at this price level off asking price.  That's all before the little things that add up start to be discussed.  There's easily 5 to 10% off ticketed prices in negotiation, despite what buyers are told, as even at 10% off, they'll make a very healthy profit.  A reasonable person want's their local Lexus dealers to stay in profit as without them in business, we'd lose out so I have no problem with them making money.  It is up to the buyer to negotiate just how much they're willing to spend taking all of this into consideration.  I won't be paying forecourt prices and have already explained to them that it's a starter for ten as far as I'm concerned.  We can play the game too, and with some of the observant comments from Carl and James above, it's clear that as long as you remain switched on and remove emotion from sales negotiations, you'll do ok and eventually get the car you want at a price that's acceptable.

 

[Carl911]

13 minutes ago, GSLV6 said:

Yes, sales patter is one of the things that truly puts me off dealing with car sales people because many, I swear, are trained from the same "1001 sales patter phrases" salebook!  I have to say that the current chap we're dealing with is quietly efficient, polite, and to the point which I appreciate.  My own view is that whilst as a nation, we seem afraid to haggle, I know how long the car I'm after has been available (quite a long time) as it's in a price range which still makes people hang off in case they can pick up a Mk4 for not a lot more in a year or two, so there's a dead mans land in between what people want to pay and what the vehicles are priced at.  In my case, to get the sale I was told to forget obtaining a Mk4 in the low to mid 30K bracket within the next 3 to 5 years, which I would gladly have taken a bet on finding within budget in the next 3 years due to the rapid devaluation on these vehicles.

I have a price in mind which is fair to both the dealers and myself.  They'll offer me 20% under private resale value for my GS, and price it for 20% more than resale value, that's how it works, as they have to make a crust, and frankly I couldn't be had with dealing with tyre kickers, so probably will sell it via part-ex.  They know what that car has cost me, and that it's as good as it gets for the year, better than most, so know they can sell it for top dollar.  They know that I know this.  I know that they know that I know this!!  That saves some BS come bartering time as what I want part ex is top dollar and not a penny less.  They also know that they'll lose years of servicing and warranty income if they don't seal a deal with me, as you say, worth way over the price reduction I want.

New registrations are shortly due out with "17" plates ready to fit. That reduces forecourt value of used stock to a potential purchaser, and looking at pricing of used stock, we all know that's worth up to a grand at this price level off asking price.  That's all before the little things that add up start to be discussed.  There's easily 5 to 10% off ticketed prices in negotiation, despite what buyers are told, as even at 10% off, they'll make a very healthy profit.  A reasonable person want's their local Lexus dealers to stay in profit as without them in business, we'd lose out so I have no problem with them making money.  It is up to the buyer to negotiate just how much they're willing to spend taking all of this into consideration.  I won't be paying forecourt prices and have already explained to them that it's a starter for ten as far as I'm concerned.  We can play the game too, and with some of the observant comments from Carl and James above, it's clear that as long as you remain switched on and remove emotion from sales negotiations, you'll do ok and eventually get the car you want at a price that's acceptable.

 

Absolutely, the pleasant sales talk is fine when you are considering the car but when it comes down to buying its business head on.

Ultimately, long as you are satisfied with the price you pay and the car you buy then that's what matters.

good luck with the haggling and I look forward to the pictures if it all works out for you.

carl

[rayaans]

Agreed. Hence when I buy a car I give them the price I want to pay, details of PX and bits I want adding on. 

Then I just walk out, tell them to ring if they can do it or not bother. 9 times out of 10 I get a phone call 3-5 days later.

[JeffL]

I agree completely with all the above comments about negotiation. I've always haggled on price (not just on cars) for many many years, it's in my nature! I think more and more people are getting the haggling habit, we must continue to spread the word. I think with motor vehicles in particular, new and used, the sticker price has always been loaded so that the dealer can appear to be giving you a higher than expected price for your PX and a lot of people fall for it! It's the cost to change the vehicle that's important. When I bought my GS back in 2009, I got £1000 more for my Avensis by selling it to a Toyota main dealer, than the Lexus dealer offered me in PX. Also, I got the sticker price of the GS down by something like £2k. This was, and still is so far, my first Lexus, so no prior history with the dealer and none since (apart from free recalls) as I have it serviced my a local garage who has all the diagnostic equipment required and charges less than the main Lexus dealer would.