What viscosity oil do we use

[ahmedali44]

Had 1 service done from lexus Woodford and done 2 services using Granville 5w30 on my is220d from independent garage, I supplied parts, had no issues,sold car with 93k, didn't burn any oil.

[agent_dess]

Castrol 0W-30 in mines, has so f the last 3 years that I've owned it, this is what Lexus Edinburgh told me they used, I've continued to do so.

[Linas.P]

28 minutes ago, agent_dess said:

Castrol 0W-30 in mines, has so f the last 3 years that I've owned it, this is what Lexus Edinburgh told me they used, I've continued to do so.

 

20 hours ago, Kodiak Sky said:

There's 0w30 in my car.

I believe this is what Lexus Edinburgh and Glasgow always put in an IS250.

Anyway, no issues here. I bought a 1L top-up bottle anticipating that some consumption might happen between services but so far it hasn't used a drop.

That is actually very strange.. It is unlikely that Scottish dealers would have different service manual?! Are they doing it in anticipation of colder weather (where lower viscosity oil is likely to perform better maybe?). Probably, it would be hard to make any comparisons especially considering that both 5W30 and 0W30 are in comparison low viscosity. Will ask Lexus Woodford for this week for opinion..

[johnatg]

Lexus are recommending 0W-20 these days, but it's usually pretty expensive and not easy to come by - I guess dealers won't particularly be using it.

I have noticed that Carlube have just announced a 0W-20 Triple R (aimed mainly at Japanese cars) - that might make it cheaper (but it's going for about £45 for 5 litres).

Also I reckon that it is sacrificing engine longevity for fuel consumption - marginal benefit and mainly for advertising purposes - look how green our cars are!

I am perfectly happy to use Dexos2 in all my cars - I pay about £60 for 20 litres and have done for years now.

[Linas.P]

That is pretty much my opinion - no reason to invest in oil on car from last decade. Do premium oil while car is within warranty and serviced by dealer and then stick to the cheapest compatible oil afterwards. It is very likely that in 10 years time the cheapest oil matches or exceeds the premium oil quality which was filled back in the day when car was new.

One interesting thing I have found on Castrol site - they (obviously) recommend 5W30 Magnatec A5 for IS250 XE20 (2005-2010) 4GR-FSE engine, BUT recommends 10W60 Edge for same IS250 XE20 (both 2010-2011 and 2011-2013) with (obviously) the same 4GR-FSE engine.

http://applications.castrol.com/oilselector/en_gb/c/recommendation?vehicleType=cars&manufacturer=lexus&model=is-xe20-(2005-)&modelType=is-250-(2005-2010)

vs.

http://applications.castrol.com/oilselector/en_gb/c/recommendation?vehicleType=cars&manufacturer=lexus&model=is-xe20-(2005-)&modelType=is-250-(2010-2011)

and

http://applications.castrol.com/oilselector/en_gb/c/recommendation?vehicleType=cars&manufacturer=lexus&model=is-xe20-(2005-)&modelType=is-250-(2011-2013)

What is the logic here?

[jackcramerr]

I had noticed that and didn't get it. Isn't tax lower for 2011-2013 cars even though its the same engine? Might be some change to engine? What do Lexus recommend ?

[Linas.P]

Probably, owners of face-lifted ones can tell. It seems (I might be wrong) that tax for 2011+ is £20 cheaper at £270 a year, the engine is definitely the same thought.

I am pretty sure that Lexus recommends same 5W30, but again only someone with 2010+ car can tell what is in the manual.

[johnatg]

Presumably they've made some changes to the engine management system which has reduced emissions on, note, only some models of IS250 (eg Luxury, but not Premier). Some models have CO2 emissions of 199 g/Km, others are 213 and pay £295 (band K) rather than £270 (band J). (The delineation is 200g/Km)

Lexus say that all models of IS250 regardless of age can run on 0W-20 oil.

[ColinBarber]

IS250 2011 onwards have the following recommendations:

Oil grade:

0W-20, 5W-20, 5W-30 and 10W-30:
API grade SL “Energy-Conserving”, SM “Energy-Conserving”, SN “Resource-Conserving” or ILSAC multigrade engine oil

15W-40 and 20W-50:
API grade SL, SM or SN multigrade engine oil 

SAE 0W-20 is filled into your Lexus vehicle at manufacturing, and the best choice for good fuel economy and good starting in cold weather.

If SAE 0W-20 oil is not avail- able, SAE 5W-30 oil may be used. However, it should be replaced with SAE 0W-20 at the next oil change.

If you use SAE 10W-30 or a higher viscosity engine oil in extremely low temperatures, the engine may become difficult to start, so SAE 5W-30 or lower viscosity engine oil is recommended.

Oil viscosity (0W-20 is explained here as an example):

• The 0W in 0W-20 indicates the characteristic of the oil which allows cold startability. Oils with a lower value before the W allow for easier starting of the engine in cold weather.

• The 20 in 0W-20 indicates the viscosity characteristic of the oil when the oil is at high temperature. An oil with a higher viscosity (one with a higher value) may be better suited if the vehicle is oper- ated at high speeds, or under extreme load conditions. 

[jackcramerr]

Is that from US spec car manual? SN SM SL are API standards...?

[ColinBarber]

No UK. Toyota always state SN, SM, SL, API standards for UK Petrol engines.

[ColinBarber]

2 hours ago, jackcramerr said:

I had noticed that and didn't get it. Isn't tax lower for 2011-2013 cars even though its the same engine? Might be some change to engine? What do Lexus recommend ?

The engine had minor revisions to make it Euro V compliant. The engine has improved CO emissions as a result. Changing the factory fill oil to 0W-20 was one of the changes.

[johnatg]

With respect, Colin, that's confusing two different things.

Euro V sets limits on emissions of nitrogen oxides (NO_x), total hydrocarbon (THC), non-methane hydrocarbon (NMHC), carbon monoxide (CO) and particulate matter (PM). The limits are based for most of those on percentages in the exhaust gas and depend mainly on a combination of engine management and exhaust treatment (catalysts and their monitoring, adblue for diesels etc). The 0w-20 would have at best a marginal effect.

On the other hand, UK car tax bands are based on absolute (total weight) emissions of carbon dioxide (CO₂) and have nothing whatever to do with Euro V. CO₂ emissions are largely proportional to fuel consumption and can be moderated by reducing resistance, making a vehicle lighter, restricting its performance and so on, as well as engine management tweaks. Thinner (less viscous) 0W-20 oil would be one small factor in that as it enables the engine to turn with less resistance. Does it provide adequate lubrication though? Maybe not in all circumstances, if there are caveats on using it when the vehicle may be run at high speed for long periods.

[ColinBarber]

Agreed, I should be more clear. The engine revisions resulted in a drop in CO2, not directly because of Euro V, but because Toyota made the engine overall more efficient and the oil certainly played some part in that, otherwise they wouldn't have bothered.

The problem with comparing oil viscosity is it isn't as reliable as it once was in determining an oil's lubricating ability, with a synthetic oil typically outperforming a mineral oil of the same grade. I'd not want to use a mineral 0W-20 oil but I've seen no evidence of increased engine problems since the move to 0W-20 synthetic oil.

[johnatg]

Re the last point - even Lexus may not be certain, given this quote from your post above!:

'The 20 in 0W-20 indicates the viscosity characteristic of the oil when the oil is at high temperature. An oil with a higher viscosity (one with a higher value) may be better suited if the vehicle is operated at high speeds, or under extreme load conditions.'

[Linas.P]

It seems like using "0W" would be beneficial considering easier start-up when engine is cold. Obviously, small benefit in UK (generally mild/warm) climate, but at least not worse. Will ask for 0W30 during the service and see what Lexus Woodford will say. 

As for "XW20" it seems like small trick to reduce emissions at the cost of longevity of the engine especially for motorway driving (city driving might still be ok). It seems like "20" cannot provide enough lubrication when engine is warm and that obviously increases wear.

That said it is still unclear where 10W60 comes from.... is that for trackdays ? :)

[johnatg]

One point that hasn't been made - re 0W vs 5W. It's not going to make much difference to us in most of UK. The 'low temperatures' referred to are -20 to -30 deg C and below - our engines start perfectly well with 5W in our balmy 0 to -5 C winters! So you're only really going to need 0W up in the glens in the Highlands of Scotland, but probably not really even there.

And 0W or 5W is still 'thicker' - more viscous - when cold than any '30' oil when hot - all fluids which don't undergo chemical change with heating are more viscous cold than hot regardless.

5W-30 changes viscosity more as it heats up than 0W-30. That's a good thing - wider viscosity ranges (which actually involve the viscosity changing less) are achieved by adding more 'viscosity improvers' - and they don't do one iota for actual lubrication but they are needed for 'multigrading' which makes an oil better suited to a wide temperature range (esp easier starting when cold)

[Linas.P]

That is correct. Whats more - in reality not all 0W are actually less viscous than all 5W, even more rarely any of 0W are less viscous than 5W at temps ~0 Deg C (actually it is often opposite). Usually, the difference is where tepms are like -54 C.

I kind of contradicting myself here, but at least theoretically 0W30 can be better than 5W30 and should not have negative impact. In reality it is unlikely to make any difference. However, where it comes to 0W20 is sound like serious trade-off of motorway protection of components with same negligible benefit of cold starts,

On the side note - I was reading in other forums and apparently Castrol Magnatec is "hydro-cracked" (whatever it means) oil rather than real synthetic (in Germany it is considered semi-synthetic due to different regulations), while Castrol Edge is fully-synthetic. Now .. does it make any difference to anyone - I am sure no.. 

[johnatg]

Actually, I'd double-bluffed myself - I've corrected my post - the one before Linas' - about the change in viscosity as an oil warms up. Viscosity is measured in poises and centipoises in the real (non-motoring) world and 0W, 5W, 30 etc are linked directly (in some way which I've never been able to discover) to the proper dynamic viscosity measure.

But it is the case that the W measure is at very low temps, so that at 0C it is entirely possible for a 0W oil to be more viscous than a 5W

[ColinBarber]

5 hours ago, Linas.P said:

On the side note - I was reading in other forums and apparently Castrol Magnatec is "hydro-cracked" (whatever it means) oil rather than real synthetic (in Germany it is considered semi-synthetic due to different regulations), while Castrol Edge is fully-synthetic. Now .. does it make any difference to anyone - I am sure no.. 

It is dependant on the grade of oil rather than just the branding of Magnatec. Magnatec 5W-30 is apparently fully synthetic, other grades are semi synthetic.

[Linas.P]

16 hours ago, ColinBarber said:

It is dependant on the grade of oil rather than just the branding of Magnatec. Magnatec 5W-30 is apparently fully synthetic, other grades are semi synthetic.

No -  it was exactly my point. 5W30 is not labeled Fully-synthetic in Germany, because it is processed from lower grade oil. Obviously, oil in Germany and in UK is exactly the same, just that in UK regulations are different and they can qualify their oil for fully synthetic here.This doesn't mean Magnatec is not good oil, but it rather defends the price difference between Magnatec and Edge (which apparently "genuinely fully synthetic"). Then again, I don't believe it matters if you do your oil on time.

While on this topic I have noticed Tesco now have discounts for Castrol oils:

• Magnatec is £18.50 for 4L or £6.50 for 1L
• Edge is £28 and £9.50 respectively

I reckon it is great price if you doing your oil yourself? 

[jackcramerr]

Cant find 4 ltr edge. Note there are two types of Castrol edge that I am aware Edge FST and Edge LL.

Also, would have bought A5 but I did oil change maybe 2 months ago.. Oil additives expire over time so I cannot keep it in storage.

[Linas.P]

1 hour ago, jackcramerr said:

Cant find 4 ltr edge. Note there are two types of Castrol edge that I am aware Edge FST and Edge LL.

Also, would have bought A5 but I did oil change maybe 2 months ago.. Oil additives expire over time so I cannot keep it in storage.

I thought additives only degrade when in engine, not when stored in oxidation proof cans. Otherwise it is high risk to buy "outdated" oil.

Maybe that is why they are discounted?

 

[Gramera flash]

And I thought I was just putting "oil" in my car,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Wrong

[jackcramerr]

They degrade and they always have date of manufacture on them. Oil is to be inspected every year if in storage. 

I would want to know date of manufacture for the discounted oil. Anyone bought it yet? Having said that, if you are using it within next few months, I wouldn't be worried. But in my case, its 1 year wait so can't be bothered. New offers will come .