Query over used ISF listing

dr_rick · April 2, 2016

So, looking to leave my Audi S4 behind, and am thinking an ISF might be an option. I'm a Pistonheader normally, but I'm sure I'm not the only one here that visits multiple fora.

i was initially interested in this one: http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201501080018031

But it it was pointed out to me by GibletPH, it had been on sale for a while, several people had walked away, and that there was a question about the history (despite it being listed as FSH). Can anyone here shed any light?

GibletPH · April 2, 2016

Hey up! Found the thread about the car -

dr_rick · April 2, 2016

Which does beg the question hownhe can say its gt FSH if everyone else disagrees. And while being a press car doesn't endear it to everyone I'm sure it will have been through a workshop or two to keep it ticking over. If it was just the 60k missing, I'd work with that and get them to service it before sale. I wonder what other services its missed.

Front brakes I can change, they're just consumables. Rears would depend on how the rear brakes and the parking brake work together (I've had electronic ones that need computers to sort).

What colour should the wheels be?

And the elephant in the room being: does press car mean ragged to death or just higher mileage than normal. If it could shift to a Lexus warranty then surely it doesn't matter (subject to parts coverage).

Not saying I'm going where others haven't, its just that someone will buy it I'm sure, but at what price/cost

stevet · April 2, 2016

It's not just the expensive 60k service missing but also oil changes way over the recommended 10k. Up for sale almost 2 years now.

I suppose if you went to a Lexus garage the brakes, tyres, 60k service and a warranty would come to around £3500 and you will still have a car with a dodgy history. Might as well get one from a dealer. Needs to be £18k to sell in its current condition.

Rear brakes just a cable, easy job.

dr_rick · April 2, 2016

Does that not put it in the same category as something like a CatD; price affected by history? People live with them every day. Same deal as people nervous with 'high mileage'

rayaans · April 2, 2016

45 minutes ago, dr_rick said:

Does that not put it in the same category as something like a CatD; price affected by history? People live with them every day. Same deal as people nervous with 'high mileage'

Yes sort of, except a Cat D is mentioned on the V5C whereas a condition of the car is not so obvious. You'll have significant issues selling the car if you choose to do so afterwards - firstly because there isn't a huge market for them anyway and secondly because the people who buy these cars know exactly what to look for.

High mileage on these isn't an issue - only you know how your S4 has panned out but when I bought a used R8 and the clutch went, they gave me an S4 to drive around in, ended up handing it back and they gave me an A8 instead due to multiple electrical issues (the S4 was like brand new as well!).

The thing is - there are a few IS-F's to choose from including the one at Manchester (Owned from new by a forum member) and its not that much more expensive. Its also in excellent condition and I can vouch for that having seen it in the Manchester dealership. Frankly, even the £16k one with 99k miles looks a good buy compared to the one you've posted.

If you're really set on the colour combo, Id be looking towards the other blue ones at Coventry and Cheltenham.

Being a press car isn't a concern, the cars are genuinely bulletproof but it does mean they have higher mileages than normal but again, I wouldn't be worried about that. Being a press car does unfortunately mean that some cars aren't given the services that they need!

The colour of the wheels should actually be darker - they've been refurbed and you'd have to check the quality of it to ensure no bubbling etc. You'd struggle to get the car on Lexus warranty - they'll probably just take a look at the service history and refuse.

dr_rick · April 2, 2016

I have no problem walking from any car really. Its more a case of getting into the mindset of knowledgeable owners as to what affects sales / purchases more

GibletPH · April 2, 2016

From what I've seen missing stamps or no history affects sales/purchases. That and condition. The main issue with the ISF is potentially leaking water pumps. Aside from that they seem bulletproof. I'd look out for a car owned by a fellow member. Good luck with the search. I kept an eye on the market for 6 months before I bought my car in January.

dr_rick · April 2, 2016

So, in advance of my finding local cars to try, is the post 2010 vehicle worth it over the pre-update? I'm coming from a Lotus Elise S and a non adaptive dynamic suspension S4.

rayaans · April 2, 2016

2 hours ago, dr_rick said:

So, in advance of my finding local cars to try, is the post 2010 vehicle worth it over the pre-update? I'm coming from a Lotus Elise S and a non adaptive dynamic suspension S4.

Depends if you can live with the ride and lack of LSD.

Personally the LSD doesn't matter to me as I dont track. If you're coming from a Lotus Elise S you should have no problems with the firm ride of the pre-2010 models. But you'll still have to drive the car to see if the suspension is to your tastes

emjay82 · April 2, 2016

In my opinion....even if you can live with the lack of service history etc, you will inherit a problem when you come to sell. Even nicely maintained examples with higher mileage (circa 100k miles) stay for sale for quite a while... And that's a much more acceptable compromise due the their reliability. You could be waiting a long time to sell or have to take a big hit on the price.

emjay82 · April 2, 2016

3 hours ago, dr_rick said:

So, in advance of my finding local cars to try, is the post 2010 vehicle worth it over the pre-update? I'm coming from a Lotus Elise S and a non adaptive dynamic suspension S4.

I find the suspension totally acceptable but I guess that comes down to personal preference. If you're not going to track the car, the LSD might not be worth the extra spend for a newer model. Either way you won't be disappointed!

dr_rick · April 2, 2016

So with the above in mind, what factors are king when looking at these cars.

1) full service history (FLSH or is indie OK / feasible).

2) visible condition

3) 'feel' when driving

4) known weak spots to look for?

5) mileage (what is too much, what is telltale)

rayaans · April 2, 2016

39 minutes ago, dr_rick said:

So with the above in mind, what factors are king when looking at these cars.

1) full service history (FLSH or is indie OK / feasible).

2) visible condition

3) 'feel' when driving

4) known weak spots to look for?

5) mileage (what is too much, what is telltale)

1) Full lexus service history is a bonus, not essential really especially on cars this old

2) visible condition - just look for any odd panel gaps, overspray or anything that catches the eye. I wouldn't worry about kerbed wheels and stonechips as they're inevitable, same with light scratches.

3) look out for misfires, shuddering anything like that but generally just get a feel for the car. If anything feels wrong, it usually is.

4) like someone mentioned, leaking water pumps. Apart from that, carbon build up and misfires. Nothing really drastic to be honest.

5) I wouldn't be worried that something is going to go wrong until maybe 150k. It'll get there with ease.

Also something to note is that if you wish to get the car covered under Lexus warranty you need to service the car at Lexus for subsequent years

stevet · April 3, 2016

13 hours ago, dr_rick said:

So with the above in mind, what factors are king when looking at these cars.

1) full service history (FLSH or is indie OK / feasible).

2) visible condition

3) 'feel' when driving

4) known weak spots to look for?

5) mileage (what is too much, what is telltale)

None of them. I'd look for a Lexus warranty first then FLSH.

emjay82 · April 3, 2016

Personally.....if a car hasn't been serviced as it should have, that owner hasn't shown much/enough care for the vehicle. I just wouldn't want to buy off someone with that mindset. Many of these cars are having warranty slapped on to make up for the lack of service history which will give some peace of mind sure.... but wasn't for me. When these cars are 10+ years old the lexus warranty might not be available??

stevet · April 3, 2016

6 hours ago, emjay82 said:

Personally.....if a car hasn't been serviced as it should have, that owner hasn't shown much/enough care for the vehicle. I just wouldn't want to buy off someone with that mindset. Many of these cars are having warranty slapped on to make up for the lack of service history which will give some peace of mind sure.... but wasn't for me. When these cars are 10+ years old the lexus warranty might not be available??

Yes, peace of mind is the only reason for a warranty. Financially it doesn't add up on a Lexus.

No Lexus warranty available after 10 years.

dr_rick · April 3, 2016

4 hours ago, stevet said:

Yes, peace of mind is the only reason for a warranty. Financially it doesn't add up on a Lexus.

No Lexus warranty available after 10 years.

What do you mean that financially it doesn't add up on a Lexus? Do you mean the warranty isn't worth it, or the opposite?

GibletPH · April 3, 2016

He probably means that the warranty can be seen as a waste of cash since the cars are so reliable that you shouldn't ever need to have any work done. Warranty includes european breakdown cover too. I'm still pondering over getting it but I'm sorely tempted by a remap as a birthday treat in a few months instead.

dr_rick · April 4, 2016

Didn't think you could do remaps on these. Do tell.

GibletPH · April 4, 2016

7 hours ago, dr_rick said:

Didn't think you could do remaps on these. Do tell.

You couldn't up until two months ago, right when I did the deal to buy my car!

Early remaps were done by sending the ecu in to places like RR Racing across the pond. They are now testing handheld modules that plug into the obd socket.

Early impressions are good but it seems the results vary depending on supporting mods. I'm waiting to see the results from a different shop who are mapping a stock car.

Understandably the remap yields the best results with a car that has an exhaust, headers and an intake. RR Racing are testing a bigger throttle body which should free up a few more horses. Looks like they will be offering a supercharge setup later on in the year too. Plenty of info over on ClubLexus.com

edit - Peter should be testing out the handheld in a few months to see if it works with our UK spec ecus. I'm tempted to get one in August as a birthday present to myself. Exhaust first though.

stevet · April 4, 2016

12 hours ago, dr_rick said:

What do you mean that financially it doesn't add up on a Lexus? Do you mean the warranty isn't worth it, or the opposite?

In my case I've had 9 Lexus's and the RX is on a 2 year extended so that's 11 years worth of warranty and never used them once. But for peace of mind I'd still get one with a warranty.

dr_rick · April 4, 2016

So, next element. Assuming you find, say, a 2010+ car with good history, a Lexus Warranty, and were OK with fuel/consumables. Is Lexus reliability OK to make this a 15k a year car?

rayaans · April 4, 2016

1 hour ago, dr_rick said:

So, next element. Assuming you find, say, a 2010+ car with good history, a Lexus Warranty, and were OK with fuel/consumables. Is Lexus reliability OK to make this a 15k a year car?

Better than anything else out there bar Toyota :P

stevet · April 5, 2016

9 hours ago, dr_rick said:

So, next element. Assuming you find, say, a 2010+ car with good history, a Lexus Warranty, and were OK with fuel/consumables. Is Lexus reliability OK to make this a 15k a year car?

I did nearly 60k miles in two years in mine. Just servicing & tyres.