Search For The Perfect Exhaust

GibletPH · March 14, 2016

Much like most ISF owners the first thing I realised after buying the car was just how quiet it is. I figured I would start a thread with my ramblings whilst I search for the perfect exhaust setup. I know the popular option on here is to visit H&S but I've decided to try a different route as I'm after something specific. I want a system that is a little louder than the stock setup but with the option of going even louder when I'm out in the countryside. That way I can keep the neighbours happy on early morning start ups but still have some fun when I want to.

The popular option for an aftermarket exhaust across the pond is the Joe Z PTS exhaust system. The only trouble is once you have factored in shipping and customs you won't have much change left from £2k. A recent alternative appeared in the form of the X Force system which is essentially a copy of the Joe Z but with the option of patented backboxes that have remote controlled valves built in. I gave up with the X Force Varex system after countless emails between the X Force head office in Australia and their stockists in Germany and Turkey as no one would provide me with a price or a lead time. I even rang the German stockists a few times but they still didn't get back to me with a price.

The Joe Z setup looks like this -

As you can see it removes the secondary cats (which won't affect the MOT but should free up a few ponies) and is a 2.5" dual system. By all accounts the exhaust adds an extra 22bhp. The main difference between this and the H&S one is the use of an X Pipe which means it will sound a little different in comparison.

I've found a decent local specialist who I will be visiting next weekend to discuss options for a similar setup using the same tried and proven design but with butterfly valves added on, something like this kit - http://www.badlanzhpe.com/collections/kits/products/standard-kit?variant=712001207 .That way I can have have what will be a quiet(ish) setup for normal use with the option of opening up the taps and essentially having a straight through system just by pressing a switch. I am still trying to decide on where to fit the valves, the empty space either side of the X pipe is a possibility as the area is sufficiently shielded.

I'll update the thread with pictures and videos once the setup is finalised and fitted.

CharlieC · March 14, 2016

I know the problem mate, I`ve had the secondary cats removed but was still too quiet so had the rear silencers chopped off and had straight pipes!

Sounds epic on full throttle going up the gears but way too much drone for everyday driving.

The fabricator I used had a Holden which he bought Varex silencers for and never fitted, so is going to try and make them fit in a few weeks time.

I`ll let you know how he gets on.

Toothy · March 14, 2016

I'll be following this with interest. Can't wait for the video / sound clips.
Can't quite understand how the valves would work though... If you had them by the X-pipe, would they just vent exhaust gasses underneath the car (when open)? Bypassing the rear two pairs of silencers.

GibletPH · March 14, 2016

1 hour ago, CharlieC said:

I know the problem mate, I`ve had the secondary cats removed but was still too quiet so had the rear silencers chopped off and had straight pipes!

Sounds epic on full throttle going up the gears but way too much drone for everyday driving.

The fabricator I used had a Holden which he bought Varex silencers for and never fitted, so is going to try and make them fit in a few weeks time.

I`ll let you know how he gets on.

I'm looking forward to seeing how you get on. A set of Varex silencers is another option but with no UK stockists and ***** poor communcation from the stockists I did contact I might find it hard to get a set.

1 hour ago, Toothy said:

I'll be following this with interest. Can't wait for the video / sound clips.
Can't quite understand how the valves would work though... If you had them by the X-pipe, would they just vent exhaust gasses underneath the car (when open)? Bypassing the rear two pairs of silencers.

In hindsight putting them near the x pipe is silly as it would mess up air flow and the drone in the cabin would be annoying. I guess the best spot is on the straight part of pipes for the back boxes. A pair of cutouts there with the y pipes angeld in the right orientation would be wise. It would bypass the backboxes but the two small silencers would still be part of the system so it wouldn't be as loud.

Stuno1 · March 14, 2016

Always good for people to have options. Look forward to seeing how you get on.

Dar · March 14, 2016

Look forward to seeing/hearing the results. I have a Borla exhaust which is amazing under full throttle but I find it drones at around 2krpm and that is sometimes very annoying and would like to be able to simple switch it off...

Peter P18 · March 15, 2016

May well be a possibility of getting something built by H&S if there was enough interest?

I've been talking with them recently because my exhaust video attracted lots of interest from the States.

They've asked to borrow my car so they can mock up a system to start selling across the pond.

Think Josh Lee over there wants to be their vendor/stockist, but I'm still trying to speak to him about it.

Suprisingly the different design without the 'X' pipe is what people like in the States I guess!

All I was thinking is my car will be with them for a while, so maybe they can figure something out for those of you who want the option of valves to quieten things down?

I seem to recall Stu was talking to them about this back when he had his exhaust done?

Pretty sure they had an option to fit the electronic valves you are talking about?

I went with H&S because being a UK company, any warranty issues are easily rectified. Can you imagine having to ship an exhaust back to the States for example if it developed a fault?!

Would cost a fortune!

Just thinking they already know the car, have a great reputation, are keen and friendly car lovers, and the costs are reasonable for what you get in my opinion.

Happy to voice any questions or concerns to H&S if you want me to chaps?

Cheers.

Pete

GibletPH · March 15, 2016

Thanks for the info Pete. I may have asked this before but are the two pipes not connected at all from start to finish in the H&S system? Everything I have read on the subject so far seems to say that it's wise to have a balance pipe with the options being an H or an X pipe. One of the articles I read is here - http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/exhaust/1504-x-and-h-pipes-add-easy-horsepower-but-which-is-best-for-your-ride/

From what I gather a balance pipe helps to stop any drone too which is key for me as my daily commute is about to increase and the last thing I want is drone in the cabin.

Peter P18 · March 15, 2016

I don't recall seeing any joins for the two pipes from start to finish, but will hopefully get some photos when I drop the car off with H&S.

The addition of the two small silencers in my current system certainly reduced a lot of the drone issues I was having, but there is still some drone there that I have learnt to live with.

Could H&S add an H or X pipe to their current system, sure, can't see why not?!

The fact these systems are custom built for each and every car they have been fitted to, should mean a greater possibility for changes to the design to suit each and every owners individual needs. Will the costs vary, without doubt they will to factor what hardware you want fitted.

You also need to keep in mind the quality of the work and materials H&S use are second to none. A lot of cheaper systems are cobbled together in places like China using very low quality stainless steel to keep costs of manufacture down. As anyone who has been to the H&S workshop can tell you, they have row upon row of top end stainless steel they use on all their systems. The fact so many exotic car owners choose H&S to build them exhausts is not a coincidence.

I'll keep you posted on how things go when I drop the car off with them in the next few weeks.

Stuno1 · March 15, 2016

Have to agree with Pete that there is no reason they can't add a different pipe. Not sure what that would do to the sound?

They can certainly add an electronic valve as that was an option open to me.

GibletPH · March 15, 2016

Thanks, I'll keep an eye out for your updates. I went through a list of local specialists and discounted a few due to quality concerns based on feedback from people who had used to them. The place I'm visiting next week use high quality stainless and have very good reviews so I'll see what sort of price I am quoted and lead time they have. If H&S start offering an off the shelf system then I'm sure there will be a few orders from northern customers.

If I do go ahead with the local place then I might look into having it built without an X pipe but with the required flanges put in place so I can switch to an X pipe later and compare the sound with videos for everyone to see and listen to the difference.

DT_Racing · March 15, 2016

This is a gold mine of a thread, sounds to be exactly what I would look for if I were specifying an exhaust for the F. It has to retain that easy effortless 'quiet' cruise but really needs more when you open the taps. I will be watching this with great interest, great work.

Peter P18 · March 15, 2016

So H&S think adding the X pipe won't be an issue.

The valves are a no go unfortunately. Ian made a very valid point as to why they wouldn't offer these. It comes down to the warranty. My current exhaust has a lifetime warranty for the full duration of my ownership. Those valves are a bit hit and miss it would seem. If H&S kept their lifetime warranty, and incorporated the valves in their systems, they'd be opening themselves up to an awful lot of potential warranty claims should the valves fail.

I may try an X pipe on my car to see how it compares. Having had around a year to get used to my current setup, I'd be a good judge of whether the X pipe reduces cabin drone.

I'd also get it back on the dyno I use to see if it has any impact on performance etc.

Will be in touch guys.

Cheers.

Peter

Toothy · March 15, 2016

Dyno results would be interesting! Would be good to know if the ECU has reprogrammed itself and is making use of the less restrictive exhaust. Do you have any runs from before and just after the exhaust was installed for comparison?

Peter P18 · March 15, 2016

Yes, although it's not a fair comparison really.

Had a Takeda intake on my car at the time. That was proven to be losing me power, and spiked my AFR readings.

Car was since dyno'd again with nice results.

I'll upload my dyno runs tonight or tomorrow guys.

Cheers.

Peter

GibletPH · March 15, 2016

Thanks for the update Peter. I can understand the decision from H&S in regards to the valves. From what I've read a lot of the valves available are made in China and all have a limited shelf life of a year or so depending on how heavy the usage is. I've found a kit direct from China for £120 including shipping. In comparison some of the USA made ones like BadlanzHPE and QTP have a longer lifespan and a the BadlanzHPE has a 5 year warranty. The Badlanz kit is £270 and the QTP is £450 including shipping. All three are likely to be hit by VAT and handling charges though. Quite a few Monaro/VXR8/Holdeb owners have used the cheaper Chinese kits without any major issues.

From what I have read the X pipe will quieten the system down somewhat in comparison to your current setup and should solve the drone issue but at the expense of the unique sound you have. The other option is a H pipe which will sound different to the X but seemingly at a cost of 5-7hp. I'll speak to the local fabricator next week about trying both styles of pipe.

I'm hoping to get a baseline run before fitting an exhaust and after. I know it takes time for the ecu to relearn and readjust after any modifications so I'll leave a month or so worth of driving inbetween getting the exhaust and getting another dyno run done.

GibletPH · March 16, 2016

Had some free time today so I visited the exhaust place to discuss my options. He has quoted me £800-£850 for a full system that includes the removal of the secondary cats. It will be 2.5" throughout using T316 grade aluminium instead of the usual T304 that other places use with two resonators in the midsection as per the JoeZ and the Y pipes for the cutout valves located before the backboxes. I forgot to discuss the option of switchable X and H pipes so will give him a call later this week.

The aim is for it to sound louder than stock in regular mode but nothing too lairy. That is reserved for when the cutout valves are opened up!

He is booked up till early May and will need the car for 3 day to get everything set up properly. This gives me enough time to decide on what cutout valves to go for.

Grey One · March 18, 2016

I'd be up for this - I have the H&S system on mine, but do feel it is bit of a 'thumper' in terms of the sound it makes and resonance etc. I'm sure there is scope for a more sophisticated alternative with value or without...

GibletPH · March 21, 2016

I'd suggest looking into an X pipe for yours as that should help to change the tone of the exhaust. I love how lairy the H&S sounds especially without the cats but it's just not suitable for me as both a daily driver and with early/late trips out.

I've got access to my brothers XFR in May so I will be booking my car in soon and using that to runaround in. Still trying to decide between the various cutout options.

Grey One · March 22, 2016

By way of an aside, on my new ISF the H&S exhaust is a bit more subdued that on my old one. I guess a hand-built exhaust will vary from car to car, but was wondering if having the standard airbox has an impact on the exhaust note (my old one had the Takeda system)? The noise is less boomy and loud than on my other car, so seems to have the right mixture of V8 burble without the thumping and boom...

stevet · March 22, 2016

4 hours ago, Grey One said:

By way of an aside, on my new ISF the H&S exhaust is a bit more subdued that on my old one. I guess a hand-built exhaust will vary from car to car, but was wondering if having the standard airbox has an impact on the exhaust note (my old one had the Takeda system)? The noise is less boomy and loud than on my other car, so seems to have the right mixture of V8 burble without the thumping and boom...

Definitely will make a difference. Just the Takeda on its own sounds much deeper and louder. I always say to people if they just want to hear the V8 burble a bit more get the Takeda first as an easy DIY job. It can soon be taken off again and sold if its not suitable, unlike an expensive exhaust system.

GibletPH · May 16, 2016

Time for a mini update. All booked in for the end of next month. Final price is £850 and that includes the cutout valves. I will however need to find an electrician to wire the power supply in for them.

Final design will be as planned, just need to decide on how loud I want the new back boxes to be. I've spent the past few days driving my brothers XFR which has aftermarket back boxes that sound like this -

Downshifts in sports mode in the XFR are stupidly fun. Trying to decide if I want something just as antisocial or if the valves will do the job for that.

GibletPH · February 21, 2017

Figured I should update this!

Ended up having it done in two stages. First the exhaust and then had a valve fitted later on.

This is what it looked like after stage one -

We ended up going with one valve (on the left side before the backbox) as there isn't adequate space for a second on the right hand side. Remote controlled but I've left it open pretty much.

A quick video clip I took on the weekend.