Advice on LS430 please

BristolBrian · March 7, 2016

Hi - newbie lexus fan here. I'm rather smitten with the idea of replacing my aging Avensis with something equally aging but rather smarter, and think I might be settling towards an LS430. I understand the 400 is simpler therefore a bit less likely to go wrong but I do like my toys and the 430 is certainly full of those. Further, even the latest 400s are getting on for 20 years old now and that's old enough to make me nervous - I need my car as transport, not a hobby to tinker with. I do about 10k per year.

I've done a fair amount of digging around in the last month or so and seen to have the following as the main things to watch out for:

- suspension faults

- telescopic steering motors

- electrics, particularly subwoofer

Is there anything else I've missed?

I want to LPG whatever car I get to bring down the running costs - I can find plenty of older models converted, but can't seem to find many 2004/2005/2006s, is there a reason for that? Does the vvti engine run OK on LPG? I know there has been mixed results with my vvti Avensis with valve recession.

Finally I spotted what looks like a decent one not too far from me on eBay, there is a decent amount of history and the seller says he'll get lexus Cardiff to change the cam belt and service it before delivery. It looks nice from the pictures. Price seems a little high, but not like the couple I've seen online recently at £8-9k. Does anyone know the seller? Has anyone seen it? Any advice appreciated

http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lexus-LS-430-4-3-V8-Saloon-Auto-Tiptronic-/371565070227

mrdoofa · March 7, 2016

I've had an LS430 which ended in disaster when the gearbox failed. Make sure you dip the transmission oil, it should be red and also make sure it doesn't smell burnt. I'd change the radiator as a precaution because the transmission fluid is also cooled by the radiator and if the radiator gets any corrosion it can allow engine coolant into the transmission fluid which can cause the gearbox to completely fail without warning. I think that's what happened to mine!!! Gear changes should be barely noticeable.

The suspension is prone to problems mainly due to water ingress into the ride height sensors and is VERY expensive to fix, some owners replace the air suspension with standard coil over suspension because it's much cheaper than repairing the air suspension. The ride should be smooth with no creaks or knocks, put the switch to high, the car should raise by about an inch and the compressor should be quiet.

Make sure both steering column motors work, again very expensive to fix.

Subwoofers can be repaired with varying degrees of success, new ones cost £350 or more from Lexus. Door speakers can blow too so take a CD with you with lots of bass to check all speakers.

Parking sensors are a common failure point.

The double glazed side windows can become delaminated with age.

Bonnet and boot support struts can be weak but are cheap and easy to replace.

The heated and cooled seats often don't work very well.

Check for correct red Toyota coolant.

Full service history is vital and check for cam belt changes every 100k or 10 years.

Check all electrics work and there's lots to check!!!

Check AC works in both front and rear if premium pack fitted.

Check no warning lights are lit on dash.

Check sat nav as this can go wrong.

Make sure toolbox is present and the locking wheelnut.

All the other checks you would do on any used car.

Personally after my experience with the LS430 I would be very nervous getting another, if I was going to get another Lexus I would find a nice mk4 LS400. I have no experience with LPG so can't comment on that. Lexus are great well engineered cars that do last well but they CAN go wrong and DO go wrong and can be horrendous money pits if you get a bad un. Tread carefully and you should be OK. Get it right and you have a bargain luxury saloon but get it wrong and it can be a whole world of hurt!!! Good luck!!!

Bluesman · March 7, 2016

Hi Brian and welcome to the LOC, we are a friendly bunch and some of us even know how to pull them to bits and put them back together again, with of course the one bolt and washer left over.

Will get back to you later on LPG as I am short on time this morning.

We recommend you spend a couple of mins looking over the rules of the LOC, we will be asking questions later.

http://www.lexusownersclub.co.uk/terms-conditions/

Regards Mike

BristolBrian · March 7, 2016

Martin - that's a great list, thanks. Sorry to hear of your horror story, that's the sort of thing that does concern me, as I don't fancy scrapping something I've just dropped £6k on....

Mike - thanks, I'm looking forward to the LPG story, although I see you have a 400 rather than a 430, is that a vvti one or earlier?

Oldboy · March 7, 2016

Welcome to the forum. I am hoping Martins experience is rare and you only ever hear / remember the disasters. I have had mine 5 months and had completely the opposite experience... Everything works !!

I do occasionally worry about what might happen after hearing Martins unfortunate experience but what other manufacturer could you trust for an 11 yr old car with v8 power and Mercedes s class comfort at fiesta money ?

Good luck with your search

Sent from my XT1092 using Tapatalk

cruisermark · March 7, 2016

mine is a 04 plate facelift version and i have had it over 3 years.

Problems i have had is:

Failed power supply on amplifier resulting in no sound - repair cost £300

one front parking sensor faulty - available cheaply

door speakers eventually blew - i repaired myself using a kit - now fine.

Martin was a bit unlucky - the gearbox problem is there but failures are in a few numbers - buying a fitting a new radiator eliminates the problem.

If you try to go for a facelift version - they tend to have less problems.

these cars respond very well to LPG conversions - Profess Gas and Leeds LPG have been recommended on this forum.

hope this helps

PJD · March 7, 2016

In regards to the steering wheel motors, just wondering what the thoughts were from more experienced owners in regards to - removing a fuse by the driver's kick-panel so the steering wheel does not move every time you start & stop the engine to reduce mechanical wear & tear (pop the fuse back in when you need to (which may not be often for some), or, every so often to mitigate seizing?

The-Acre · March 7, 2016

37 minutes ago, PJD said:

In regards to the steering wheel motors, just wondering what the thoughts were from more experienced owners in regards to - removing a fuse by the driver's kick-panel so the steering wheel does not move every time you start & stop the engine to reduce mechanical wear & tear (pop the fuse back in when you need to (which may not be often for some), or, every so often to mitigate seizing?

I've got a theory which may or may not be right. I've noticed (and I do the same) that people often get out of their cars holding the steering wheel, and I'm wondering if the extra work the steering motor has to do when someone's holding onto it causes the motors to wear? When I turn my engine off and get out of the car the steering wheel is still retracting.

PJD · March 7, 2016

Hmmmm - yes, maybe. Certainly good to be mindful of that.

One particularly LS430 I test drove, the telescopic function didn't, at first, appear to work.. .. I gave it some "encouragement", and after a bit of creaking, it did indeed work... albeit slowly....

My steering wheel motors seem pretty perky... so I am hoping it's a good sign that there's some good life in them yet... (but I maybe completely wrong if they slow down before failing?).

cruisermark · March 7, 2016

absolutley agree with that - putting extra stress on the motor which it is not designed to take will only shorten its life of the motor or the moving gear and we already know that atleast one part which is a plastic with worm gear running through it wears out.

i make sure my hands are not touch the steering whilst its moving

Tulpen · March 7, 2016

I keep hearing about blown speakers; in 19 years of LS ownership I've never had any problems with Mark Levinson's products. What sort of volume are folks playing things at. I find that I can enjoy music without having blood pouring from my ears........and I listen to a LOT of rock music :)

cruisermark · March 7, 2016

the door speakers which failed in my case are made of 2 parts - the cone and the foam surround - what happens is the foam disintegrates and partsaway from the edge of the speaker - this creates extra vibration and the blown sound - actually removal and repair of the speaker is very easy and cheap

Titch LS · March 7, 2016

Brian, as regards LPG, both the LS400 and 430 seem good candidates for a conversion as I've definitely read somewhere (ages ago) that both cars have hardened valve seats unlike some more modern Japanese engines. I have LPG on my Mk4 LS and I have been extremely pleased with it. Not a hint of trouble in 40 thousand miles.

BristolBrian · March 7, 2016

Thanks for all the good advice so far - I guess the message I hear is that, as with any other older car, a thorough inspection is key and then a bit of luck! Mark, your list of problems seems perfectly reasonable to me for a car of this age, if I could get 5 years use on a £5-6k car with maybe £1-2k total on occasional fixes (eg a preventative new rad plus one decently expensive but not terminal problem) over the 5 years (plus servicing) I'd be happy with that. Maybe I'll also have a think about a higher mileage, rather cheaper LS430 and then it's only £3k if it all goes horribly wrong.

Bluesman · March 7, 2016

I have run on LPG for the past 16+ years and had all my cars converted and never had a lubrication system fitted on any of them.
If it runs on Unleaded then LPG will not do any damage to your engine. LPG also has far fewer contaminates to hurt your engine over petrol. LPG also burns at a lower temperature to petrol.
You will not regret it just be sure you can trust 100% the people who are going to do the conversion. If you have any doubts about them stop and go somewhere else.

If your buying a car already converted BE VERY CAREFUL and check first that there is no smell of gas inside or outside the car, if you do smell gas don't take any excuses just walk away and quickly as you are looking at a bomb.

Next make sure that they have the LPG certificate for the car if not walk away.

After that look at the conversion and satisfy yourself that it looks like a professional installation.

Finally check with your insurance company that they will accept your car being converted if not you will have to find one that will, its getting rarer that they wont accept you but always best to ask first.

Profess in South Wales have done my last two conversion at £1400 which has now dropped to £1200 inc VAT and the bonus of using them is they will do it in a day and lend you a car for the day. I have never seen anyone post anywhere they have had a problem after using them. Both our cars haven't missed a beat.
Before that I used a company called Duelfuel in Woking Surrey they always wanted a week and wanted nearly £3K to convert the Lexus which is why I started looking round for a better deal. £1200 and Car loan for the day, its a no brainer.

If you pay someone ten grand to have a system fitted if they do a bad job you have wasted your money. Other suppliers and installers do not like sorting out other peoples problem so your stuck with it.

Finally ignore anything UKLPG have to say, they are just a self appointed sheriff who like you to think they are a government associated body that over sees the LPG industry and its complete rubbish. This also goes for those that say they are affiliated to UKLPG.

Good luck with whatever you decide.
Mike

brendangeorge · March 9, 2016

On 3/7/2016 at 0:40 AM, BristolBrian said:

Hi - newbie lexus fan here. I'm rather smitten with the idea of replacing my aging Avensis with something equally aging but rather smarter, and think I might be settling towards an LS430. I understand the 400 is simpler therefore a bit less likely to go wrong but I do like my toys and the 430 is certainly full of those. Further, even the latest 400s are getting on for 20 years old now and that's old enough to make me nervous - I need my car as transport, not a hobby to tinker with. I do about 10k per year.

I've done a fair amount of digging around in the last month or so and seen to have the following as the main things to watch out for:

- suspension faults

- telescopic steering motors

- electrics, particularly subwoofer

Is there anything else I've missed?

I want to LPG whatever car I get to bring down the running costs - I can find plenty of older models converted, but can't seem to find many 2004/2005/2006s, is there a reason for that? Does the vvti engine run OK on LPG? I know there has been mixed results with my vvti Avensis with valve recession.

Finally I spotted what looks like a decent one not too far from me on eBay, there is a decent amount of history and the seller says he'll get lexus Cardiff to change the cam belt and service it before delivery. It looks nice from the pictures. Price seems a little high, but not like the couple I've seen online recently at £8-9k. Does anyone know the seller? Has anyone seen it? Any advice appreciated

http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lexus-LS-430-4-3-V8-Saloon-Auto-Tiptronic-/371565070227

Hi Brain

The car you posted a link to looks great with only 65K miles and a new cam belt when you buy. I may have had a look at it if I had not just bought a load of new bits for my old heap - I'll write a post about that sometime.

Bluesman made great comments about LPG - I have done 150K of the 250K miles my car has covered using LPG and never had a problem. It will save you a fortune.

The steering wheel tilt moor shims do get knackered and is not expensive to fix (fit a new one) and if you have a mind (I don't) you could fit yourself - Phil was spot on about using the wheel for leverage when getting in and out of the car :). I am a big lump and need all the help I can get. I am on my third steering column motor - an old Lexus mechanic told me that I was causing the problem. I am not sure messing with the fuses is a great tactic.

Good luck with the 430 mate.

Bren

BristolBrian · March 9, 2016

Thanks for that Brendan - did you fit a flashlube system?

Bluesman · March 9, 2016

No point in fitting a flash lube system the engines don't need it. Its just another way of getting a hundred or so more pounds out of you. In the 16 years I have been using on all my cars I have ever owned I have never had one fitted and I still know of three of the cars that I have sold to people and they are all still running strong. Mike.

PJD · March 15, 2016

I have a couple of questions in regards to LS430 preventative maintenance.

I got my local garage to check the suspension height monitors, they said they looked fine, dry and no sign of cracking or leaking, - is this enough for peace of mind? No other tricks to keeping these little grommets in good order?

They also checked the radiator and connections, and again, said they were absolutely fine; would you be happy with this, or would is it worth considering replacing the rad anyway to negate the possibility of gearbox failure?

Many thanks!

Titch LS · March 15, 2016

Phil, If I owned a 430 over 10 years old I would replace the radiator just for peace of mind. They are not expensive as far as Lexus parts go, and are very easy to fit. I would also make absolutely sure I had only Toyota Red/Pink coolant in it. Just my two pence worth.

cruisermark · March 15, 2016

1 hour ago, PJD said:

I have a couple of questions in regards to LS430 preventative maintenance.

I got my local garage to check the suspension height monitors, they said they looked fine, dry and no sign of cracking or leaking, - is this enough for peace of mind? No other tricks to keeping these little grommets in good order?

They also checked the radiator and connections, and again, said they were absolutely fine; would you be happy with this, or would is it worth considering replacing the rad anyway to negate the possibility of gearbox failure?

Many thanks!

hi phil reference the height adjusters - other members have as a preventative measure put some grease on them to keep the moisture out.

and reference the radiator - you cannot tell wether its about to fail or not by just looking at it - the problem is inside hidden from view and starts at the transmission fluid inlet unions. - hope this helps

GrahamG · March 15, 2016

Phil, my LS is the same vintage as yours and this summer I will replace the radiator by way of preventative maintenance. From what I have read they fail as engine coolers from cracking and as ATF coolers at the pipe unions.

The only question is which make of radiator to use. Normally I would choose original Lexus parts but other quality brands will definitely be cheeper and may be better built in this application.

Thermostat will also be replaced and engine temperature sensor.

Will definitely follow Brian's advice and insist on Toyota coolant

The height sensors fail from water ingress and the arms can seize and break so each summer I apply a water proof lubricant.

The-Acre · March 15, 2016

I agree with all of that, applying some kind of grease around the sensors (cleaning them first) will make a big difference, and lubricating all the other moving parts connected to them. Eurocarparts are doing a radiator for the LS430 for £107 at the moment, and Toyota red coolant is about £25 for 5 litres. You will also need a very small amount of transmission fluid to top it up. Toyota would only sell me 5 litres so I bought 1 litre of the correct Mobil fluid from eBay for about £11. The correct type of fluid will be stamped on the tip of the transmission dip stick.

PJD · March 15, 2016

Many thanks everyone for such great info & fast response.

Should I really check the dimensions of my radiator, or should they all be the same for this model? The Europarts one is showing different this even cheaper one on eBay, below, for e.g:

http://www.eurocarparts.com/car-radiator
Koyo Radiator
Product Code: 203821061
Core Dimensions425 X 757 X 16 mm
MaterialAluminium, Plastic
Transmission TypeManual- / optional automatic transmission
Vehicle EquipmentFor vehicles with/without air conditioning
Engine Code 3UZ-FE
Fitted Quantity 1
Other Information If Unit On Vehicle Has Overflow Pipe, It's Main Dealer Unit Only

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Cooling-Cooler-Radiator-For-Lexus-430-LS430-4-3cc-32V-Auto-Manual-Replacement-/151793932664?hash=item23579f9978:g:el0AAOSwYlJW3nav

How do I I access the suspension height sensors/arms to clean and grease? Do I need to remove the wheel, or just jack it up..?

Can I only buy Toyota Red Coolant from Toyota?

Many thanks again for excellent information here.

The-Acre · March 17, 2016

On 3/15/2016 at 9:04 PM, PJD said:

Many thanks everyone for such great info & fast response.

Should I really check the dimensions of my radiator, or should they all be the same for this model? The Europarts one is showing different this even cheaper one on ebay, below, for e.g:

http://www.eurocarparts.com/car-radiator
Koyo Radiator
Product Code: 203821061
Core Dimensions425 X 757 X 16 mm
MaterialAluminium, Plastic
Transmission TypeManual- / optional automatic transmission
Vehicle EquipmentFor vehicles with/without air conditioning
Engine Code 3UZ-FE
Fitted Quantity 1
Other Information If Unit On Vehicle Has Overflow Pipe, It's Main Dealer Unit Only

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Cooling-Cooler-Radiator-For-Lexus-430-LS430-4-3cc-32V-Auto-Manual-Replacement-/151793932664?hash=item23579f9978:g:el0AAOSwYlJW3nav

How do I I access the suspension height sensors/arms to clean and grease? Do I need to remove the wheel, or just jack it up..?

Can I only buy Toyota Red Coolant from Toyota?

Many thanks again for excellent information here.

The eBay one just seems too cheap. With Eurocarparts it's easier to return a part if there's a problem. As far as I'm aware the sizes are all the same, although I did have to make a small and very easy modification with one small top hose, the overflow that you refer to. To gain good access to the sensors you really need the car up on a ramp, but the wheels can stay on.

As the coolant is a Toyota product I'm certain you won't be able to get it elsewhere. And the transmission fluid you need is Mobil ATF 3309 (that's assuming your dip stick states Type 1V)