GS450h info required

[Dblock]

Hi guys, 

I'm new here. So I am looking for a new(read second hand lol) car in about October time. A long time I know but I really like to research my cars well. I don't really want a diesel for a few reasons and I am looking for something reliable and with decent MPG.  

With me being a Weeabo I want to stick to Japanese cars as IMO they are reliable and make good cars. The research has LED me to 3 cars that interest me. 1. A Gen3 gs450h. 2. A Toyota Prius 1.5 and 3. Toyota Auris HSD 1.8.

Well that's a range of cars and OBVIOUSLY the smaller cars will get better MPG. Well yes but how much better? Some people say the lexus will average 35mpg others say about 40mpg. There is too many variables I know but I was wondering if anyone near me could give me a lift in one to see the rough mpg round my town and too experience the car.  I won't drive it and will happily pay for petrol money. My usual commute is about 16 miles mainly 70mph dual carriage way but about 25% town driving. 

Reasons to get the Lexus:

1. Gen3's are probably one of the best looking Lexus ever made IMO

2. Fast

3. Refined

4. Because of the bigger engine I would feel I wouldn't have to trash it much therefore getting better mpg

Reasons NOT to get the Lexus

1. Other hybrids will get better mpg (to what extent I need to find out, as prius owners sometime say they get 40mpg and other get 70mpg. Who to believe?) 

2. More complex therefore technically more to go wrong.

3. More expensive to run, fuel, tyres, tax etc et

4. Is it old manish? I don't know. 

Also I want to go hybrid due to me not having a drive any more as diesels do need regular maintenance. I currently drive a Leaf and want the quietness of an electric/hybrid car. 

 Just to see if anyone can help me here. If anyone is around my area Dundee/Angus then please let me ride in your gs450h lol. 

[AmbroseJohn]

Anything that goes 0-62 in 5.9 is not an old man's car. Expect 30-35 for 'normal' driving. If you're looking to go 'Green' this ain't the car for you, the 450h is a performance car.

[Dblock]

Hi John, 

Performance isn't just an indicator of that, a w220 s500 does it in 6.2seconds and it certainly is an old mans car. You say to expect 30-35mpg but what is normal driving? 

 

[mr2lad]

I had a 08 GS450h for 2 years and my best mpg was 32mpg, I never bought it for the mpg figures but for the luxury lol hence I now drive a LS600hl and best mpg in my 2yrs of ownership is 26mpg on normal driving ie I drive within speed limits with family in car and like a idiot when by myself 😂😂😂😂🙄😏

[Dblock]

That's a shame. That is a very poor IMO. I could easily get 28-30mpg from my Nissan 3.5 v6 non hybrid. I might try to get a test drive in a gen4 as I've heard their mpg is slightly better. 

Well it's going to be a Toyota or e92 335d. 

Cheers. 

[calum_h]

I was looking at the 335 and 535 too, but the refinement and smoothness of the Lexus is amazing.  I'm in Aberdeen if you're ever up here an want a look at one?  Mine is a 2009 450.

Cheers

Calum

[steveledzep]

A 16 miles daily commute suggests an annual mileage of less than 10k.

Really not sure why all the fuss about mpg with such a low mileage..........just buy the car you're happy to drive 

[Dblock]

4 hours ago, calum_h said:

I was looking at the 335 and 535 too, but the refinement and smoothness of the Lexus is amazing.  I'm in Aberdeen if you're ever up here an want a look at one?  Mine is a 2009 450.

Cheers

Calum

Awesome mate thank you I'll let you know if I'm up there at any point. I used to work in Stonehaven just last year so my mileage went down a fair bit from then! I was doing nealry 800miles a week but it's a lot less now thankfully. 

3 hours ago, steveledzep said:

A 16 miles daily commute suggests an annual mileage of less than 10k.

Really not sure why all the fuss about mpg with such a low mileage..........just buy the car you're happy to drive 

16 miles each way plus a small trip elsewhere so usually about 35-40 miles a day. Plus I usually go to Glasgow once a month which is another 200miles. I don't see the point in wasting fuel for the sake of it.  I prefer to drive cars that are generally more powerful as it saves them being trashed. I currently own 3 cars but would like to sell 2 and have it replaced by something decent sized, comfortable, reliable and have decent mpg. I have a car that I use purely on my days off and I don't mind the mpg on that but I don't see the point in wasting money (or more so) than needed for my commuting car. 

[Mike Hartland]

To compare the MPG of a GS to a Prius is perhaps a little unfair as they are two very different vehicles, not least in size. If a Prius sized vehicle would fit your needs then perhaps the Lexus IS or CT deserve a look, not least as they will return better MPG than a GS.

[mkbean]

The brochure for the GS 450h is actually pretty clear on this point, the hybrid drive is about performance.

If you want fuel economy round town get a Prius (which is a great car BTW, i've had one), or if the motorway get a diesel.

Anyone buying the GS for fuel economy is going to be disappointed - not least because the extreme acceleration is rather addictive!

 

[AmbroseJohn]

The 2.5lt engine in my BMW 525i used to return about 30mpg. So the 30-35 return from the 3.5lt GS450h is, considering the extra performance, much, much better. If you buy a saloon car, which can out perform many sports cars, you can't expect it to be lean and green too. 

[Britprius]

I am just in the process of changing from a 1.5 Prius to the GS450H. The Prius is the most reliable, economical car I have ever had returning a genuine 58 mpg in the winter and rising to 67 mpg in the summer with £10 a year road tax.. The HV Battery is still under guarantee and can remain so if serviced by Toyota or has a yearly health check till it is 11 years old irrespective of millage.

My prime reason for the change is the requirement to tow a caravan. In a 123,000 miles of ownership the sum total of repairs was two rear shocks "under guarantee one was leaking both were changed" and a front NS wheel bearing at 96,000 miles. Services were carried out at the Toyota dealers and are set price at 10,000 mile intervals.

The Gs will have a lot to live up to. 

[mkbean]

58 minutes ago, Britprius said:

The HV battery is still under guarantee and can remain so if serviced by Toyota or has a yearly health check till it is 11 years old irrespective of millage.

Yes you're right, I didn't realise that. Every time you get the car serviced at Toyota / Lexus you are guaranteed for another year / 10,000 miles on the HV Battery.

[noby76]

there is not a lot of savings to be made between a car returning 26mpg compared to one returning 30mpg. based on your driving i worked it out as roughly 1000 miles a month. the saving is around £25 betwwen a 26mpg car against one returning 30mpg at 1000 miles.  powerful cars are never fuel efficient when driven like they are supposed to be driven. 

I think the word 'decent mpg' could be interpretated differently by different people. e.g i think any car which returns 30mpg is decent mpg but someone else might think thats not fuel efficient so it all depends.

i do about 250-260 miles a week which is just over 1000 miles a month so not that different from you and at the current fuel prices costs about £210 - £225 a month in fuel it might sound high to someone else but considering it still works out cheaper than me paying on monthly finance on say a CT200h/IS300h  starts making sense. 

if you dont want to spend any more for commuting than its worth then have you considered an 06 onwards Honda civic in 1.4/1.8 they return between 40-50 mpg and cheap to tax it Japanese, they look futuristic and being non hybrid means less to go wrong even on high mileage ones

[Dblock]

10 hours ago, noby76 said:

there is not a lot of savings to be made between a car returning 26mpg compared to one returning 30mpg. based on your driving i worked it out as roughly 1000 miles a month. the saving is around £25 betwwen a 26mpg car against one returning 30mpg at 1000 miles.  powerful cars are never fuel efficient when driven like they are supposed to be driven. 

I think the word 'decent mpg' could be interpretated differently by different people. e.g i think any car which returns 30mpg is decent mpg but someone else might think thats not fuel efficient so it all depends.

i do about 250-260 miles a week which is just over 1000 miles a month so not that different from you and at the current fuel prices costs about £210 - £225 a month in fuel it might sound high to someone else but considering it still works out cheaper than me paying on monthly finance on say a CT200h/IS300h  starts making sense. 

if you dont want to spend any more for commuting than its worth then have you considered an 06 onwards Honda civic in 1.4/1.8 they return between 40-50 mpg and cheap to tax it Japanese, they look futuristic and being non hybrid means less to go wrong even on high mileage ones

I get that but I was hoping to get at least 35mpg maybe closer to 40mpg on a run. It

's not a lot of difference but there is a difference. Fuel prices are currently low but remember when they got up to nearly £1.50? Well for v power anyways but I don't see fuel staying so cheap for so long IMO. Wouldn't buy an fn3 in anything other than the 2.2 cdti which is on my list. Shame the clutches are like chocolate. My brother has an fn2 and it's not great on fuel although it is a larger engine. I still find his a little tiring to drive as you have the rev the crap out of it to go anywhere. He used to have a 1.6 ep2 and that was the worst! Reliable as hell but revving to 4krpm at 70mph was tiring and that was slow at least the fn2 is faster than those. I currently pay £20 a year for my unlimited supply of fuel. So I don't want to have to go back 30mpg for no reason. 

I actually looked at the CT200h but they are ugly and the ride isn't meant to be too nice. Interior is lovely. Does just seem like an expensive auris though. 

 

16 hours ago, Mike Hartland said:

To compare the MPG of a GS to a Prius is perhaps a little unfair as they are two very different vehicles, not least in size. If a Prius sized vehicle would fit your needs then perhaps the Lexus IS or CT deserve a look, not least as they will return better MPG than a GS.

Yes of course, my dilemma was I know the prius will win in mpg hands down. But if a GS450h could do 35mpg or 40mpg on a long motorway run then I'd be happier in the Lex but being 30-35mpg WORSE than the prius is too much for me. If it was 15-20mpg worse than the prius I'd handle that.  

11 hours ago, Britprius said:

I am just in the process of changing from a 1.5 Prius to the GS450H. The Prius is the most reliable, economical car I have ever had returning a genuine 58 mpg in the winter and rising to 67 mpg in the summer with £10 a year road tax.. The HV battery is still under guarantee and can remain so if serviced by Toyota or has a yearly health check till it is 11 years old irrespective of millage.

My prime reason for the change is the requirement to tow a caravan. In a 123,000 miles of ownership the sum total of repairs was two rear shocks "under guarantee one was leaking both were changed" and a front NS wheel bearing at 96,000 miles. Services were carried out at the Toyota dealers and are set price at 10,000 mile intervals.

The Gs will have a lot to live up to. 

That is amazing! I recently sold my 1.4tdi Seat Arosa and that would be proud with figures like that. How slow is the 1.5 prius though? Is it slow slow or is it ok? I really like the prius but whenever I see how fast it is I just think ugh. I will maybe have to test drive one. Can I also ask what the best prius forum is as there are so many!

12 hours ago, mkbean said:

The brochure for the GS 450h is actually pretty clear on this point, the hybrid drive is about performance.

If you want fuel economy round town get a Prius (which is a great car BTW, i've had one), or if the motorway get a diesel.

Anyone buying the GS for fuel economy is going to be disappointed - not least because the extreme acceleration is rather addictive!

 

I get that. Diesels can be fast but I really don't like diesels. They smell and I hate the noise they make plus I do find they need alot of maintenance. But they are getting much better mpg with a more powerful engine. My brother used to have a e46 330d and it was fine but I'm not sure how relaible the 335d or newer 330d engines are. My research continues! 

[rayaans]

Looking at the mileage you're doing there's no point getting a diesel. 16 miles at 70mph approximately takes 13 mins. The newer diesels have very strict DPF control. A DPF typically needs 30-40 minutes of driving to clear it up at above 40-50mph. Basically you'll be looking at DPF issues down the line.

Also BMW's aren't exactly reliable. The engines don't usually play up but its the electrics that will drive you mad.

Real world figures of the GS450h will be 30-40mpg depending on how you drive. I get 35mpg in my RX on the motorway.

You won't be getting 70mph in a Prius or CT, last time I drove one, it was about 45-50mpg and at speed that drops quite significantly as the CT is a heavy car with a low power drivetrain so does need revving.

You wont regret a GS450h, they're rockets especially mid-range acceleration. It'll take 450hp cars between 30-50mph and 50-70mph all day long simply down to the mid-range acceleration.

 

[Britprius]

The Prius is much maligned by programs like Top Gear. In reality the car is much quicker than the 0 to 60 time of 10.2 seconds suggests. In some ways rather like the GS the off the line acceleration "with no engine running" is remarkable. The front tyres may cherp a little on a smooth dry road as the electric motors huge torque at zero revs gets the car away instantly with no wheel spin. The traction control really works well in that situation. The 1.5 version will cruise all day at 70 mph still leaving reasonable acceleration to overtake. Top speed is 113 electrically limited. 

It is quite remarkable to see the mpg reading 99.9 mpg on flat and the slightest down hill sections of motorway at 70 mph. I am not saying it is a flying machine, but it does work very well. If or when I give up towing I will be going back to a Prius, and for those thinking about one have a test drive.

Around town the 1.5 version does best on fuel. For motorway use the 1.8 does better. Performance otherwise is about the same.

I belong to Prius Chat. It is world wide, but has an American byass as that's where most are sold.

[Dblock]

1 hour ago, rayaans said:

Looking at the mileage you're doing there's no point getting a diesel. 16 miles at 70mph approximately takes 13 mins. The newer diesels have very strict DPF control. A DPF typically needs 30-40 minutes of driving to clear it up at above 40-50mph. Basically you'll be looking at DPF issues down the line.

Also BMW's aren't exactly reliable. The engines don't usually play up but its the electrics that will drive you mad.

Real world figures of the GS450h will be 30-40mpg depending on how you drive. I get 35mpg in my RX on the motorway.

You won't be getting 70mph in a Prius or CT, last time I drove one, it was about 45-50mpg and at speed that drops quite significantly as the CT is a heavy car with a low power drivetrain so does need revving.

You wont regret a GS450h, they're rockets especially mid-range acceleration. It'll take 450hp cars between 30-50mph and 50-70mph all day long simply down to the mid-range acceleration.

 

I don't live on or work on a motorway so it takes me 30mins to get to work in the day and about 25mins at night. You can cut the DPF out though? 

I found that bmw's are as you say but what is the other alternative. According to most people here I'm looking at 30ish mpg which isn't great. 

I was looking at a gen2 prius. According to their owners 50+mpg should be easily attainable. 

That was the reason I thought I would love the GS450h. I own a 3.5 v6 and it's so effortless and I also own an electric car and it's great and smooth. I thought put the 2 together and best car ever. But 30ish mpg isn't worth the time for me. As my non hybrid can get that fairly easily. 

 

[Dblock]

2 minutes ago, Britprius said:

The Prius is much maligned by programs like Top Gear. In reality the car is much quicker than the 0 to 60 time of 10.2 seconds suggests. In some ways rather like the GS the off the line acceleration "with no engine running" is remarkable. The front tyres may cherp a little on a smooth dry road as the electric motors huge torque at zero revs gets the car away instantly with no wheel spin. The traction control really works well in that situation. The 1.5 version will cruise all day at 70 mph still leaving reasonable acceleration to overtake. Top speed is 113 electrically limited. 

It is quite remarkable to see the mpg reading 99.9 mpg on flat and the slightest down hill sections of motorway at 70 mph. I am not saying it is a flying machine, but it does work very well. If or when I give up towing I will be going back to a Prius, and for those thinking about one have a test drive.

Around town the 1.5 version does best on fuel. For motorway use the 1.8 does better. Performance otherwise is about the same.

I get the way they will drive I currently drive a Nissan Leaf which is fully electric. What type of mpg would the 1.5 do roughly on the motorway and is it noisy? 

[Britprius]

At 70 mph you would be looking at 55 mpg winter 60 mpg summer. Road noise is the most noticeable thing, but that depends greatly on the road surface and the tyres used. Choice of tyres on the Prius is critical to good economy.

Tyres with a fuel rating of A or B are a must and ideally tyres with a rating of 67 to 68db for noise. The OEM tyre size is 195/55/16, but going up to 205/55/16 improves road manners enormously, and also have the advantage of being 25% cheaper for the same make and type of tyre.  Going up one size seems to have no effect on economy. 

The 1.8 Prius will achieve about 5mpg better than those quoted above on motorways. The reverse is the casein towns and rural areas.

[Dblock]

6 minutes ago, Britprius said:

At 70 mph you would be looking at 55 mpg winter 60 mpg summer. Road noise is the most noticeable thing, but that depends greatly on the road surface and the tyres used. Choice of tyres on the Prius is critical to good economy.

Tyres with a fuel rating of A or B are a must and ideally tyres with a rating of 67 to 68db for noise. The OEM tyre size is 195/55/16, but going up to 205/55/16 improves road manners enormously, and also have the advantage of being 25% cheaper for the same make and type of tyre.  Going up one size seems to have no effect on economy. 

Fantatsic. I've been looking quite hard at the prius. An e92 is much better looking but these Priuses seem to be bulletproof. 

Just a shame the gs450h will only get around 30ish. 

[Britprius]

I did tow my caravan with the Prius but it was lacking power for 1 in 5 hills. on motorways it towed well at the legal limit "60 mph" returning an amazing 49 mpg. This with a 15 toot 1 ton van.

[noby76]

2 hours ago, Dblock said:

Fantatsic. I've been looking quite hard at the prius. An e92 is much better looking but these Priuses seem to be bulletproof. 

Just a shame the gs450h will only get around 30ish. 

I think you might be contradicting your self a little bit here.. reading your previous posts you say you dont want a diesel but in another post you say you would buy a diesel 2.2 cdti fn3 civic or a 335d BMW... sure if you have taken a liking to an fn3 civic why rule out its petrol version? when both the 1.4 and 1.8 petrol versions on paper achieive 40+mpg on combined cycle driving which is more than the mpg you were looking to live with also with the benefit of not having the clutch issues of the diesel version. and the notion of having to rev the living day lights out of honda's to get them to 'GO' is false. I drove my friends 1.6 LS Coupe Civic automatic few years ago and it never lacked torque at either 1500rpm nor at 6000rpm. the 1.8 fn3 makes around 175nm torque at 4300rpm and hits 60 in mid 8 secs thats an engine not lacking torque. and I am guessing you own a 350Z Nissan that makes its max torque at around 4800-5000 rpm so if anything you will find the honda drivable at lower to mid speeds as its not a heavy car.

you say your nissan 3.5 can achieve 28-30mpg which you could live with so why is it an issue to live with a GS450h achieving the same mpg?

you say you prefer to drive cars that are more powerful as it saveS them being thrashed but aside the GS the other two cars you mentioned which were of interest to you was a 1.5 Prius and 1.8 Auris which can't be classified as powerful cars.

i think you might be making a big mistake by trying to compare the prius to the gs450h one is built to be an economical city run around and the other a performance hybrid for both city and motorway cruise not that a prius is not capable of motorway cruise but you kinda get what i mean.. on paper the prius beats the GS450h by an easy 35mpg but what you loose in mpg you make up in other aspects like smooth driveabilty, more sound proofing, more toys, better sound system, and a power difference of around 260bhp on tap when compared to the prius for if and when one bothers to use it thats why the GS450H looses 35mpg against the Prius.

difference between a car returning 30mpg and one returning 40mpg over 1000 miles is around £40-£45 extra in fuel cost not trying to offend or anything as i dont know you but if you have been able to afford and run 3 cars at the same time sure £50 extra in fuel cost a month to drive a car returning 30mpg against a 40mpg one wont break the bank..
 

[steveledzep]

On 01/03/2016 at 11:49 PM, steveledzep said:

A 16 miles daily commute suggests an annual mileage of less than 10k.

Really not sure why all the fuss about mpg with such a low mileage..........just buy the car you're happy to drive 

^ This.  Can't be bothered going into the whys and wherefores, everyone else has done that admirably.

[calum_h]

It's the human condition though...not saying it's right but I have seen people spend many thousands to change cars to save a real world 6mpg.

My opinion?  It's a way of justifying that a new car is required.  The decision is made already and cognitive dissonance requires the finding of reasons to support that decision.

Calum