IS 220d or is 250?

[Robag]

Guys U are great.

Thank you for your help.

Cheers!!!!

[toffee_pie]

3 hours ago, RXJasonRX said:

Hi. Personally I'd go for a 250 and avoid the diesel. The petrol car is much more refined so I've heard and better styled. What about a 300h ? Hybrid feul consumption and you have the best of both worlds.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

300H way over his budget, plus it has a CVT transmission, if you want to lose the feeling of actually driving a car a CVT box might be for you., otherwise get a proper auto or manual box.

[Yorkie740]

I have the is220 and I happy with it!

All cars no matter what you buy have things people say go wrong with them! Like any car keep it maintained serviced ect ect it be fine and the 220 isn't slow really yea in 1st and 2nd it's not going to change the world as no diesel does! but in 3nd 4th and 5th the diesel torque comes in and it go's 

The 220 or 250 isn't a performance car if you want a is and performance buy a isf 

[toffee_pie]

The is250 is a petrol, and can be revved high into the band range, through every gear so you are much much more involved in the driving experience.  Its definitely not a  out and out sports car but is more than able to keep up with most cars on the road.

Its been done to the death on this site and many others about 220d and its reliability.

[Lexie04]

 1st post on LOC.  Having owned an IS 220d -08 plate manual, and also an IS 250 -60 plate Auto. I was going to buy another diesel  for the 55mpg but with the engine being turned down for emissions the newer diesel felt much slower than the older model. New model was 155bhp where the 08 plate was 177bhp.

Went for the IS 250 F-sport in Auto giving me 32mpg. The 08 plate 220d was only returning 34mpg.

Hope this is helpful best try both diesels before making up your mind.

 

 

[rayaans]

On 2/19/2016 at 7:46 PM, toffee_pie said:

300H way over his budget, plus it has a CVT transmission, if you want to lose the feeling of actually driving a car a CVT box might be for you., otherwise get a proper auto or manual box.

Not strictly true, the 300h has a pretty good CVT gearbox as they go. It actually feels better to drive than the 2nd Gen 250 simply because of the handling. And lets not forget the 300h smokes the 250 in real life i.e. mid-range 30-70mph 50-100mph etc etc. anything with a rolling start in other words

Ive got to say, the CVT vs Auto box thing is blown way out of proportion, there's not that much difference in real life to be honest. I enjoy driving my RX450h more than my 2nd Gen RX300 with its 5 speed auto box. Its the instant torque, smooth power and in reality, it barely gets near the redline because its too quick to actually go on full throttle because the mid-range urge is very good in hybrids.

[toffee_pie]

10 hours ago, rayaans said:

Not strictly true, the 300h has a pretty good CVT gearbox as they go. It actually feels better to drive than the 2nd Gen 250 simply because of the handling. And lets not forget the 300h smokes the 250 in real life i.e. mid-range 30-70mph 50-100mph etc etc. anything with a rolling start in other words

Ive got to say, the CVT vs Auto box thing is blown way out of proportion, there's not that much difference in real life to be honest. I enjoy driving my RX450h more than my 2nd Gen RX300 with its 5 speed auto box. Its the instant torque, smooth power and in reality, it barely gets near the redline because its too quick to actually go on full throttle because the mid-range urge is very good in hybrids.

Whatever magazine seems to be of a different opinion

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-reviews/long-term-tests/lexus/lexus-is300h-hybrid-2014-long-term-test-review/

Manuals have been used for a long time in high performance cars, a CVT will never get the driver involved like a manual can. 

I want a V8 as my next car, the is250 has given me the taste for higher performance (and luxury) and I want to keep it that way.

in terms of speed, the top speed of the 300h leaves a lot to be desired, 0-60 is pretty pedestrian too, not much better than a is250.

[Shahpor]

More judgement? 

You mention TG, but link Car Magazine?

Anyway, have to to agree with Rayaans on this one.

I take it you haven't tried the Lexus CVT?  I was lent a CT for a week by my local dealer, so had a good go with it.  I admit it is a little strange, but as Rayaans points out, the difference between it and a auto box isn't that massive.

Don't you want a Mercedes V8 next?  That would be an auto then.  Larger, big engine cars are generally suited to having auto boxes.  I think the IS300h qualifies on this count, so I don't think a manual would work very well.

You're mention of top speed and 0-60 times are beside the point as well since Rayaans specifically mentions mid range.  He is also right in that this mimics real word condition more accurately than 0-60 times.

[toffee_pie]

300h has a cvt box, which I don't want. The car I want next is 5L+. That is large cc.

I don't even think 2499cc is large or exclusively merits a auto. Loads of cars in or around this capacity have manuals. 

Auto boxes in cars like isfs and big mercs are entirely different ball game.  They will also leave cars like a 300h for dust.

[rayaans]

1 hour ago, toffee_pie said:

TG seems to be of a different opinion

 

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-reviews/long-term-tests/lexus/lexus-is300h-hybrid-2014-long-term-test-review/

 

Manuals have been used for a long time in high performance cars, a CVT will never get the driver involved like a manual can. 

I want a V8 as my next car, the is250 has given me the taste for higher performance (and luxury) and I want to keep it that way.

in terms of speed, the top speed of the 300h leaves a lot to be desired, 0-60 is pretty pedestrian too, not much better than a is250.

TG also thinks the RC-F is crap so you better avoid it if you wan't a V8. They also said the IS-F was rubbish so that pretty much explains it all really. 

Top speed? Interesting comment. Does it make a difference if top speed is 124mph vs 155mph? Maybe if you're overcompensating for something but in reality it makes no difference. Frankly if all the cars in the UK were limited to 100mph it wouldn't matter as you can't get to those speeds on normal roads without getting pulled over or braking every 2 seconds.

Also, 0-62mph doesn't mean anything in the real world, the only place it makes a difference is on a drag strip.

A classic example of that is the Autoexpress review between the Porsche Cayenne Hybrid, Lexus RX450h and Volvo XC90 which can be found here:

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/lexus/rx/94180/lexus-rx-vs-porsche-cayenne-vs-volvo-xc90

The Porsche has 410hp and 590nm of torque both available lower down in the rev range compared to the 308hp and 335nm (+ the unknown figure from the electric motors) of torque from the RX450h.

Porsche 0-60mph = 5.5s                  RX = 7.8s

Wait till you start seeing mid-range figures and you'll see where the Lexus experience of hybrids is -

Porsche 30-50mph = 3.0s                RX = 2.8s

Porsche 50-70mph = 4.6s                RX = 3.8s

Thats what a CVT gives you, punch in the face mid-range figures which are more realistic of day to day acceleration compared to the obsolete drag strip 0-60mph times.

Ive personally had experience of this, my wife's IS300h can scare 3.0l diesels when rolling and the RX goes like a bat out of hell when you floor it at 40mph.

[toffee_pie]

If the 300h is as good as you say take it to the ring, it would not get good times. 

I've not considered a 300h as my next car. Clearly it was a ISF or something along the lines of that.

I like the feeling of being involved in the driving experience, the CVT cars like a 300h might be for some people but not me.

[Robag]

....now I confused...

The IS 250 has a normal automatic gear box or CVT?Or its depends from year make?

Tnx

[Robag]

12 hours ago, Lexie04 said:

 1st post on LOC.  Having owned an IS 220d -08 plate manual, and also an IS 250 -60 plate Auto. I was going to buy another diesel  for the 55mpg but with the engine being turned down for emissions the newer diesel felt much slower than the older model. New model was 155bhp where the 08 plate was 177bhp.

Went for the IS 250 F-sport in Auto giving me 32mpg. The 08 plate 220d was only returning 34mpg.

Hope this is helpful best try both diesels before making up your mind.

 

 

U meant the F-Sport Body not 5,0l engine, wright? Its just look a bit different and dosn't have the leather seats with all features...

[Shahpor]

12 minutes ago, Robag said:

....now I confused...

The IS 250 has a normal automatic gear box or CVT?Or its depends from year make?

Tnx

The IS250 has a normal auto gearbox.

The newer 3rd generation IS300h hybrid has a CVT box.

That discussion has nothing to do with your quest for a new car 

[Robag]

it does mate...until I'm not an Lex owner I want to know as much as possible about the car... :)

[toffee_pie]

8 speed sport direct shift in isf, 6 speed multi clutch in is250. These are advanced auto boxes and have alot of complexity.

[rayaans]

4 hours ago, toffee_pie said:

If the 300h is as good as you say take it to the ring, it would not get good times. 

I've not considered a 300h as my next car. Clearly it was a ISF or something along the lines of that.

I like the feeling of being involved in the driving experience, the CVT cars like a 300h might be for some people but not me.

OK so the definition of a good car is how fast it goes around a track? In that case the Nissan GTR is theoretically an awesome car. Have you actually driven a GTR? It feels like driving inside a box with wooden flintstone wheels. Going by your definition, the IS300h is automatically better then as its probably faster than the 250 on a track anyway (like I said before, it has huge mid range acceleration and a 50:50 weight distribution).

You keep mentioning you like being involved in the driving experience yet you've contradicted yourself simply by the Lexus that you own. In what way is the 2nd Gen IS250 "involving"? Its not at all. All 3rd gen models are more "involving" than the 2nd gen.

Again, you're thinking of an IS-F yet the driving experience doesn't really beat the E90 M3 with a manual box so I can't really see what your point is?

[noby76]

40 minutes ago, rayaans said:

OK . Going by your definition, the IS300h is automatically better then as its probably faster than the 250 on a track anyway (like I said before, it has huge mid range acceleration and a 50:50 weight distribution).

 

mmh not quite Hybrids have that mid range upper hand when batteries as quite charged up. without that the RC300h will only make do with just over 180bhp from its engine and with a weight of over 1700kg will not perform well against an IS250. if anything, it will loose when running only on engine power once Battery power is used up but not by much.

[toffee_pie]

indeed, Battery power is fantastic, (I know enough about them as I have worked in Battery design for a number of years). Once the Battery energy is lost the car reverts back to its natural habitat, the ICE. 

Over the Nuremberg i would say the is250 would trump the is300h. That mid range start stop boost will be not much use there.

 

 

[toffee_pie]

2 hours ago, rayaans said:

OK so the definition of a good car is how fast it goes around a track? In that case the Nissan GTR is theoretically an awesome car. Have you actually driven a GTR? It feels like driving inside a box with wooden flintstone wheels. Going by your definition, the IS300h is automatically better then as its probably faster than the 250 on a track anyway (like I said before, it has huge mid range acceleration and a 50:50 weight distribution).

You keep mentioning you like being involved in the driving experience yet you've contradicted yourself simply by the Lexus that you own. In what way is the 2nd Gen IS250 "involving"? Its not at all. All 3rd gen models are more "involving" than the 2nd gen.

Again, you're thinking of an IS-F yet the driving experience doesn't really beat the E90 M3 with a manual box so I can't really see what your point is?

you are only getting yourself confused here (is300h better than a GTR, sorry...what), if I put up a link of my car going through the gears you could clearly 'hear' it was more involving that the is300h you have.

I need to find out a way to get my dash cam shoehorned into the engine, for the real benefit of as manual is you are in control of the dynamics. 

The auto boxes used in the is250 and ISF are fantastic, but I don't want a auto is250, its no better than what I have right now.

I would be pretty confident my is250 would easily do a lap of the ring faster than a is300h, cars like a ISF and high end performance cars will blow away a is300h.

 

 

[Shahpor]

He is not getting confused.  Did you read his post properly?  He is saying that, by your rational, the IS300h is better than the IS250 because it is probably faster around a track.

As for driver involvement, you seem to think that having a manual box changes everything?  Did you not read the article you linked?  And I quote:

"but the drive is still damn decent, with direct steering via a great-to-hold wheel, a tight front-end (helped by double wishbones, one up on the 320d’s struts) and a chassis that shines despite the batteries in the boot."

Also:

"Essentially, we can’t praise the IS highly enough. The fact is its shortcomings stand out because the rest of the package is so sorted. The first-generation Lexus IS was brave, the second was bland, the third is almost brilliant. "

Not that I am putting down my own second gen IS, but I accept what it is.

[stevet]

What's all this got to do with 'The Ring'? 99.9% of Lexus's will never go near the thing. 99.9% will be travelling around the county in line with all the other cars on the road.

[toffee_pie]

24 minutes ago, Shahpor said:

He is not getting confused.  Did you read his post properly?  He is saying that, by your rational, the IS300h is better than the IS250 because it is probably faster around a track.

As for driver involvement, you seem to think that having a manual box changes everything?  Did you not read the article you linked?  And I quote:

"but the drive is still damn decent, with direct steering via a great-to-hold wheel, a tight front-end (helped by double wishbones, one up on the 320d’s struts) and a chassis that shines despite the batteries in the boot."

Also:

"Essentially, we can’t praise the IS highly enough. The fact is its shortcomings stand out because the rest of the package is so sorted. The first-generation Lexus IS was brave, the second was bland, the third is almost brilliant. "

Not that I am putting down my own second gen IS, but I accept what it is.

a is300h will be faster around a track that a is250? How do you think this will work out, have you seen the upper speed of the is300h? hardly earth shattering.

You will no doubt respond to everything else i will post, getting tedious.

I wont be in a 'manual' soon, everyone has different aspirations.  

I know enough about cars to tell me a CVT is not what I want, in the same way I know neither is a 220D

 

FWIW, The article said this also (its not the only article i read about the is300h that mentioned its transmission mind you)

 

'Pity it’s linked to a CVT rather than a slick six-speed manual then '

[mikeyv]

1 hour ago, toffee_pie said:

indeed, battery power is fantastic, (I know enough about them as I have worked in battery design for a number of years). Once the battery energy is lost the car reverts back to its natural habitat, the ICE. 

Over the Nuremberg i would say the is250 would trump the is300h. That mid range start stop boost will be not much use there.

 

 

If you're looking for the ring, don't go to Nuremberg, you'll have overshot by about 100 miles.

[toffee_pie]

Has anyone been to the 'ring' ? I have seen videos like this one.

Makes it so easy but in reality one mishap and you could be looking at it as an expensive trip.