GEARBOX DISASTER!!!

mrdoofa · February 9, 2016

Hi everybody,

Today on my way to work I had a disaster because my car lost drive in all gears.

I slowed down for a roundabout and when I accelerated again the car was almost free revving with hardly any forward drive so I managed to coast off the roundabout and pulled over to the side of the road, switched everything off and started again. The gearbox engaged but it was struggling to move with the engine revving but hardly any movement so I stopped again and turned everything off. I decided to try again but this time the gearbox wouldn't engage at all, At this point the car wouldn't move at all, I tried putting the lever in R, D, 4, 3, 2 and L and none would engage at all. It has also caused the EML to come on.

I called out greenflag rescue and they dipped the gearbox oil and found the fluid had a burnt smell and also had tiny metal filings in it. His word to describe it was "Terminal". They arranged to have a flatbed wagon take the car to the mechanic I use, it is in his garage now and he said he will have chance to look at it in the morning.

My question is what is likely to be the best and worst case scenarios here and how much is it likely to cost!?! My biggest concern is if the gearbox has had it. How much are new and reconditioned gearboxes for these? My car is an 02 plate which has done 208k. The car has driven fine until this point with no other symptoms I'm aware of, it just went all of a sudden. Any help/advice here would be much appreciated. Thanks everybody.

black400 · February 9, 2016

This does not sound good ， you should be able to get a good second hand one ， a recone can be very expensive.

lex - eleven · February 9, 2016

Had that before on a previous car and the fluid had turned a browny colour. Unfortunately it was the end of that box and I had to get a replacement. Not many 55 cadillac gearboxes about either. 😕

adventure before dementia

black400 · February 9, 2016

I just changed the fluid on a Saab 95 , 80000 miles on the clock it was very dark ， but so far the box is ok I'll do another in a weeks time .

Only a auto trans specialist will know what the outcome will be ， never had any problems on my 2 LS400s ， asin make some Lexus boxes and saab ， volvo and renault ， so check there forums you never know

Jacques Wood · February 9, 2016

As a very serious suggestion. Looks to big companies that import Japanese cars as a source of parts and fitting. They regularly import autos (admittedly usually straight six engined cars) on the cheap and convert them to manual UK side. So they're constantly taking gearboxes in and out. That would be your best bet for getting the car back on the road quickly, as in my experience, they have mountains of auto's lying around.

I've met plenty of people in the import business, and they're not chop shops, they're car lovers.

it won't be a pristine Lexus show room, but they'll do the job right. Go in with an open mind and you'll get good service.

Worth an inquiry at least?

Here's a google search for you:

Japanese Car Importers

Good luck

Scribe · February 9, 2016

One of the moderators of the Honda Accord forum that I belong to is an auto transmission specialist and has saved many a Honda V6 gearbox. He's not local to you and may not know much about Lexus boxes but I'll ask him what he thinks.

mrdoofa · February 9, 2016

Thanks for all the responses so far. I'll let you know what the mechanic says tomorrow although I don't know how much he knows about auto gearboxes. At the moment I'm hoping for the best but expecting the worst!!! To say I am gutted is an understatement, I've only had the car for 2 months. The problem is the car is only worth about £2k and I don't really want to start spending more than the car is worth repairing it. I don't have that much money to spare anyway lol!!! I really didn't expect the car to be let down by the gearbox as I know how bombproof the engines and gearboxes are supposed to be, if anything I thought the air suspension would let it down, mind you, knowing my luck that'll probably be next.

Anyway, as I said I appreciate all the help from you guys here, I've got a few things to try now depending on what I find out tomorrow.

Titch LS · February 9, 2016

Martin, sorry to hear the bad news; sounds pretty serious. Two scenario's come to mind for what happened; 1. Possibly the ATF has not been changed for an awful long time and, at over 200,000 miles the gearbox has given up. Or, 2, Coolant has leaked from the old radiator into the gearbox and ruined it. It can happen to LS430's unfortunately. It's more likely to be the second case. Hope you manage to work around it somehow without costing too much.

mrdoofa · February 10, 2016

1 hour ago, Titch LS said:

Martin, sorry to hear the bad news; sounds pretty serious. Two scenario's come to mind for what happened; 1. Possibly the ATF has not been changed for an awful long time and, at over 200,000 miles the gearbox has given up. Or, 2, Coolant has leaked from the old radiator into the gearbox and ruined it. It can happen to LS430's unfortunately. It's more likely to be the second case. Hope you manage to work around it somehow without costing too much.

You could be right about the coolant, I know it had a new radiator fitted about 9,000 miles ago so it's possible that could've happened before I got the car. I'll hopefully have more idea tomorrow. It's such a shame this has happened because I really like the car.

Scribe · February 10, 2016

Martin, this is the reply I've had from the Honda guy:

Sorry to hear about this m8y, always sad when somebody that loves their motor or a newbie dealing with these issues, and we have had a couple of new members just joining up asking about their gearbox problems, if only they hadn't entrusted somebody to maintain their car that didn't care.

Toyota/ Lexus transmissions have adaptive software which compensates for wear in the transmission and one day it will let go completely with little or no warning. This could be simply down to wear an tear or as a result of updated software or failure to update the software. Nevertheless it doesn’t compensate for viscosity changes e.g cold start shifting or responsiveness niggles. Alternatively the control unit itself has failed (I’ve replaced a couple on Lexus motors) especially if all gears are lost and reverse. Honda’s software is more pressure regulated which is more reliable in its own way but still has it own flaws with age.

The fact you mentioned metal filings in the fluid doesn’t always mean it’s the transmission or controller is at fault and I would investigate the possibly of the torque converter failing although some damage may have occurred as result of excessive heat transfer and particles entering the transmission.

Additionally I have replaced a few heat exchanger coolers on Toyota transmissions they lost drive as result of coolant getting into the transmission fluid with turns it to jelly and most survived the all-deal with fresh fluid and a new cooler or radiator wherever the cooler is situated

Anyway keep us posted and never hesitate to forward a Lexus my way if it’s local and somebody needs assistance with a diagnostic

Scribe · February 10, 2016

So Brian, you could be right.

mrdoofa · February 11, 2016

A bit of an update, my mechanic contacted an auto transmission specialist and explained to them what had happened. He reckons it'll cost somewhere between £1,100 to £1,500 + VAT to fix it although he'd need to actually see it to give a more accurate estimate. Is this a reasonable price? Not that I can afford that sort of money so I may end up having to cut my losses and selling the car as spares or repair. I guess it's the risk you take on a high mileage used car. If anyone maybe interested let me know but bear in mind the car will need trailoring as it can't be driven. It's a real shame as I really like the car but simply don't have that kind of money to spare.

Jacques Wood · February 11, 2016

4 hours ago, mrdoofa said:

A bit of an update, my mechanic contacted an auto transmission specialist and explained to them what had happened. He reckons it'll cost somewhere between £1,100 to £1,500 + VAT to fix it although he'd need to actually see it to give a more accurate estimate. Is this a reasonable price? Not that I can afford that sort of money so I may end up having to cut my losses and selling the car as spares or repair. I guess it's the risk you take on a high mileage used car. If anyone maybe interested let me know but bear in mind the car will need trailoring as it can't be driven. It's a real shame as I really like the car but simply don't have that kind of money to spare.

Don't give up or accept your first quote. Try everywhere. Remember there are crash damaged LS430's with perfectly good boxes in scrap yards all around the country.

Try these guys;

http://www.idealengines.co.uk/model.asp?pname=all-lexus-ls430-automatictransmission&mo_id=163

goldtop · February 11, 2016

22 hours ago, Scribe said:

Martin, this is the reply I've had from the Honda guy:

Sorry to hear about this m8y, always sad when somebody that loves their motor or a newbie dealing with these issues, and we have had a couple of new members just joining up asking about their gearbox problems, if only they hadn't entrusted somebody to maintain their car that didn't care.

Toyota/ Lexus transmissions have adaptive software which compensates for wear in the transmission and one day it will let go completely with little or no warning. This could be simply down to wear an tear or as a result of updated software or failure to update the software. Nevertheless it doesn’t compensate for viscosity changes e.g cold start shifting or responsiveness niggles. Alternatively the control unit itself has failed (I’ve replaced a couple on Lexus motors) especially if all gears are lost and reverse. Honda’s software is more pressure regulated which is more reliable in its own way but still has it own flaws with age.

The fact you mentioned metal filings in the fluid doesn’t always mean it’s the transmission or controller is at fault and I would investigate the possibly of the torque converter failing although some damage may have occurred as result of excessive heat transfer and particles entering the transmission.

Additionally I have replaced a few heat exchanger coolers on Toyota transmissions they lost drive as result of coolant getting into the transmission fluid with turns it to jelly and most survived the all-deal with fresh fluid and a new cooler or radiator wherever the cooler is situated

Anyway keep us posted and never hesitate to forward a Lexus my way if it’s local and somebody needs assistance with a diagnostic

Might be worth adding a link to this specialist's site/contact details here, for any unlucky owners searching on the same problem.

runsgrateasanut · February 11, 2016

Simple things first. Whats the level of water in your expansion tank? Has it dropped significantly? Dip something in to see if "oily"

If your Car has a Transmission dipstick what does the fluid look like? Water will be obvious I'd have thought. Magnets in filter tray would I imagine stop chaff coming from the Rad if it was a cheaply made Rad. But maybe not?

My Merc gearbox went tight stopping the car when the pipe to the integral Rad literally fell off outside my house losing liquid. What does the cold level of the Transmission look like? What fluid is found on the Cars undertray, if any?

black400 · February 11, 2016

I had a near miss today ， I have a Saab 95 for work ， I could smell burning oil for the last few days but ， time was not on my side untill today ， looked underneath ， hmm oil pan maybe untill futher investigating lead me to the auto sum nut loose as he'll ， just about to fall off ， that would have been that.

RE THE LS 430 ， used auto box with warranty is your best bet if your is caput.

mrdoofa · February 11, 2016

The problem I have is that I need the car for work so don't have time to do much in the way of shopping around, my nephew has been kind enough to let me use his Rover 75 for a few days whilst I sort things out, the other thing is that any specialist will want to see the car before giving an accurate repair quote which is a problem because the car cannot be driven as the gearbox isn't engaging at all in any gear and I certainly can't keep having it towed everywhere.

I think the time has come to cut my losses (if anyone wants it as spares or repair let me know!!!) because I simply don't have the spare cash available for any big repairs like this, I'm also worried in case anything else fails on the car such as the air suspension because it has done 200k after all although the suspension is fine at the moment. I've been to see a Ford Mondeo 2.0 TDCi Ghia X which is cheap and will see me on for a bit.

Scribe · February 11, 2016

I quite like the later Mondeos. Anyway, good luck with whatever decision you make.

Re Barry's suggestion above, anyone in the Midlands who has gearbox issues might like to contact Stuart (based in Burton-on-Trent). His website is very Honda-focused at the moment but he works on other Japanese (and German) cars.

www.hondaman.co.uk

Bluesman · February 11, 2016

Be very wary of any gearbox you buy from a breakers as they don't look after their spares as they should. I bought an auto box for a jeep from a scrapper but they had left the gearbox out overnight in the rain and the water went into the clutch plates which are only made of paper and that buggered that box as well. I couldn't get it into my guy who does my work before the 2 week guarantee ran out so lost £400, I took the route I should have took in the 1st place and went to a proper specialist auto box place and for £1000 they fitted one of their refurb boxes and no more problem 12 month warranty on it as well.

mrdoofa · February 12, 2016

I just want to thank everybody again for your help and input and just because this Lexus has turned out to be something of a disaster, it certainly hasn't put me off Lexus.

One day when I've sorted myself and my finances out I would like another LS430, probably a face lift one or perhaps a mk4 LS400. This time though I'll be going in with my eyes wide open and really scrutinise everything about the car and follow everybody on here's advice to the letter and not get carried away and let my heart rule my head and it won't be from old Baz this time!!! Speaking of old Baz, he bought himself yet another LS400 not long ago after the cat c write off one he bought and guess what? He's now looking for another LS430 in light blue this time!!!

To be perfectly honest this car isn't quite as good as old Baz made it out to be as he described it as having everything in full working order and only needing the alloys maybe refurbishing to make the car like new!!! I've mentioned niggles and faults in other threads such as blown subwoofer, heated and cooled seats hardly work, power fold mirrors don't work properly, rain sensing wipers don't work and some other minor niggles. I allowed myself to get carried away though and bought the car thinking I could repair or live with these issues and some people on here said not to buy it and it was a bit overpriced but as I said I allowed my heart to rule my head and am now paying the price such as life, next time I would prefer to get it from a dealer because then at least you get some protection from the sales of goods act should things go bad and also would like less miles on the clock.

Hopefully the Mondeo will be ok and see me on for a bit, it's a Ghia X so still has a lot of toys and being diesel I will definitely feel the difference at the fuel pumps lol!!!

Anyway, thanks again and hopefully I'll get another Lexus in the not too distant future. (Perhaps I should've kept the GS430 a bit longer as that car was just about perfect after I sorted the heater problem by topping up the coolant tank). I'm rambling on now lol but as I said the LS430 is here for spares or repair if anyone's interested. Cheers everybody!!!

mikeyv · February 12, 2016

Bit of a sad tale.

Sorry to hear it's all gone wrong for you.

Can't help feeling, that if anybody is buying an LS, particularly at the older/cheaper end of the market. a 400 is a much less risky option, albeit with less "toys".

Good luck with your Mondeo, hope it goes well for you.