Help picking a GS450h

[Rob373]

Hi all. I'm very interested in getting a second-hand GS450h, somewhere in the 2006-2011 age range. I've browsed the forums and found them useful but there are a few things I would like further advice on if anybody could oblige...

1/ Specs - I'm finding this nearly impossible to get my head round as every advert seems to list a random selection of features that from the reviews, appear to be mainly standard. Seems to be "SE" "SE-L" and "Sport" trim levels? Could anybody explain the differences in standard specs for each model and what were optional extras? Is the suspension harder on the "Sport" (in which case, will avoid) I would also be interested to hear any advice on the relative merits of things like adaptive variable suspension (option? what does it actually change?) radar cruise control (must be an option as seems to be very rare?), and I am confused by what all the stuff about collision assist, braking assist etc... actually adds to the ownership/driving experience. Am I right in assuming brake force distribution and stability control are standard on all cars? It seems rather difficult to get any clarity - with other cars I've bought in the past it has been relatively easy to get info on this (even BMWs with about a million different options and packs), but seems to be hard with the GS450.

 

2/ Is there any reason to spend more on a newer model, all else being equal, other than perceived future reliability and plate snobbery? i.e. if there are 2010 and 2006 cars with the same mileage, specification, history and condition, were there any issues fixed on the later cars that earlier ones suffer from, other improvements, or any issues that develop over time rather than mileage? Usually I would buy a car based on condition, specification, history and mileage over age, but the complexity of these cars makes me a bit more cautious.

 

Thanks in advance for any advice you guys can offer

[Zotto]

Many questions to answer... I had a 2008 GS 450h, wonderful and powerful car, in a intermediate version; unluckily I can' t be sure is the same in UK, names are different, here they were GS 450h, PLUS, and Ambassador , something like "sport". The differences are in some not so relevant features in terms of general performance, but in more useful gadgets. Don't worry about suspensions, they are all electronic controlled by integrated system that controls behaviour of car and can be set to normal, sport or snow, in sport mode  you have a stiffer car. So, which difference you find in versions? The base version does not have radar and Mark Levinson audio, that is very good if you like hi-fi, the sport  (Plus?) version is a bit more sportier, still no radar but bigger wheels and ML, Xenon lights?  ( I don't remember if they are in all versions), while the Ambassador (SE-L? , now called Premier? ) you find all features more towards comfort, radar, ML, steering wheel with carved wood, sun roof and so on.

Compared to later GS, all version have adaptive steering, while now it is only for Sport with rear  wheels steering, not available before.

About your 2nd question, not so many differences after 2010 restyling, may be some costs optimization ;-) , but the quality is excellent; if you have to pay attention to something, the most important thing to control is HV batteries status, so, a check for them ( or a special insurance in case of fault) is necessary, even if don't be much worried, you can read here in forum that even if Lexus suggest to change all HV block if faulty, it's possible to change single cells sparing MUCH money.

Generally speaking, it's a car that performs a 0-100 km/h  in 5.9 seconds and max speed limited to 250 km/h, that is for many reasons excessive (but sometimes I miss that, having passed to a newer GS 300h).

 

[Mike Hartland]

Firstly, the specs - as far as I know there is not a "Sport" version in that age range, it is something that came in with the 2012 version. As Zotto said, "Sport" is one of the suspension settings, should you wish to select it. In short, the SE-L is a higher spec than the SE, mainly due to upgraded suspension and gearbox etc. It also tends to have the Mark Levinson stereo. The only visual difference is that the SE-L has a small boot spoiler. There were facelifts in 2008 and 2010. In 2008 one set of indicator light moved from the wing to the wing mirrors and in 2010 the grill goes from vertical vanes to horizontal ones. There are other subtle differences such as the Sat Nav going onto a HDD in 2010 but nothing else major. A search online for old Lexus brochures will show full specifications.

In terms of dealers listings, I tend to find that they just hit a standard spec when listing it, often missing out on other options that can be seen in the photos - such as the radar cruise. This is usually referred to as ACC or Adaptive Cruise Control and means that it you are cruising at say 70mph and someone pulls out in front of you at a slower speed then the car will slow to that speed and keep a set distance until they move out of the way or you overtake them. Whilst it will slow the car it will not bring it to a complete halt - it is still up to the driver to avoid accidents. Those that have it swear by it and I was looking for a car that had it, but as you say it is very rare. For some reason that I have never figured out it is only available on cars that have a sun roof.

The main thing to budget for is the extended warrenty at around £1,000 per year, largely for piece of mind, especially as repair bills can be big. And it includes repairs to the hybrid Battery should anything go wrong.

 

[Rob373]

Thanks for your advice chaps - most helpful! They are so well equipped as standard that I think any specification would be fine for me, but the radar cruise control is the one thing I must try before deciding how much more a car with it is worth to me, as it could be excellent for the type of driving I do (lots of heavy traffic moving 40-80mph)

I have read up on the Battery issues and I am not too worried - the town I live in (Northampton) is home to the company discussed on the forum who do full Battery fix with 12 month warranty for £800. As any comparable modern diesel can easily hit you for that much on an random turbo failure, I do not see potential Battery failure as a problem to worry excessively about.

My other consideration is the "sensible" one which did kick in a bit this morning - do I really need a ballistic barge? Or am I being massively self-indulgent? Especially a consideration for me, as I spend most of my mileage in heavy multi-lane traffic, and in performance terms a GS450 is still nowhere near as fast as my motorcycle...So a car is primarily a utilitarian purchase... Decisions decisions!

Mike - my personal feeling on extended warranties is that like any form of insurance, they are going to be set up in such a way that they make money rather than lose it, so the cost to you is higher than the law of averages dictates your repair bills are likely to be over the warranty period. If I was hit by £3000+ in repair bills over the 3 years I am likely to keep the car, then you could argue I had made a very poor decision not to take a warranty, but over a longer time period of time I should still be better off, as few cars you own are actually going to do that to you. I never finance anything I could buy outright and cut my cloth accordingly. I buy things that are unlikely to break (e.g. Japanese cars) but then never insure/warranty anything I am not obligated to unless the loss would be financially ruinous - so basically, a mortgage is the only borrowing I would consider, and house and car insurance are the only form of warranty / insurance I buy. Maybe I am odd - I realise these views are not common in the UK :-)

[Mike Hartland]

Rob, I would agree with warrenties being an insurance policy and someone somewhere making money from that. The trouble with me buying cars is that I always worry why the last person sold it, so the warrenty does give me piece of mind. Having said that, you mention that it won't be financed which - if you are looking to buy from a Lexus dealer - could give you some leverage when it comes to bargaining over price. They are always more likely to throw in something that isn't costing them as much as they are knocking off the price.

And don't forget that many GS450's sit for quite a while before selling, so dealers are always open to offers.I bought mine recently after it had sat at a Lexus dealer for six months. Not only did the price come down over that time but after we had finished negotiating the two years extended warranty was thrown in.

[cruisermark]

from what i have read the lexus warranty which is £950 for 2 years covers almost everything on the car.

the GS450H (upto 08) have some common problems such as:

1) Battery cell failure

2) Leaking Shocks

3) Seizing calipers

4) Transmission pump failure ( higher the mileage - the more the risk)

5) Failing headlight ballasts - headlight goes off after a while

These are the things to look out for when buying as can be expensive to fix

[Carl911]

As has been mentioned really, always nice to get lower mileage where possible. Good full service history. They are reliable cars but like any model at this level when things break they attend to cost an arm and a leg unless you can do the repairs yourself.

i paid for the additional 2 years Lexus warranty and it's worth every penny. Had a few m or issues but those alone paid for the warranty several times over.

as you say, price of mind to just sit back and enjoy these motors.

i have had mine a year and still think it's a fantastic drive, quiet and comfortable with effortless power and yet able to keep up and see off all but the quickest of cars on the road.

carl

[Rob373]

Chris - good point on dealers / haggling warranty and definitely something for me to factor into any decision.

I have been and driven a cheap one - I like to start at the bottom end of the market and work up through a few examples before finalising budget and narrowing choices.

It had 105k on it but was wearing the mileage exceptionally well in terms of interior - the only indication it had passed 100k was the driver's seat belt a little reticent to reel back in an very slight scuffing to the outer seat bolster - confirming my previous impressions of Lexus build quality. Typical backstreet car lot - I rang and told them I wanted to look at it - rather than get it out and check it over, they waited until I got there before realising the conventional 12v Battery was flat and the range was 0 miles! Interestingly, all the cabin electrics seem to run from the hybrid Battery? With some petrol in it and the aid of a jump pack I got a test drive. Within a couple of minutes the Battery charge was sufficient for the stop/start to start functioning and movement in slow traffic under electrical power only. Everything worked faultlessly despite the obvious neglect - service history was only stamped for 10k (2008), 20k (2009), 75k (2012) and assume it has sat parked for a few weeks, yet you would never have guessed. I probably won't, but given the build quality you could make a good argument for buying a £6k 2007 car with 100k on the clock and running it for a couple of years under an extended warranty if you want the piece of mind - a much nicer alternative to a smaller newer car for the same price and 2 years down the line with 120k on it, probably still worth 4 grand to somebody as a private sale - especially if you've bothered to get the Battery health checked and the service book stamped!

I only had a brief test drive but was suitably impressed with the refinement, ride quality and performance. There is  fully loaded 61 plate 1 owner FLSH 50,000 mile SE-L just in at a place 45 minutes away for £15k which I definitely want to check out, but it won't be prepped until Tuesday, so I will go and look at another couple tomorrow and I would also like to test drive another CT200. I drove one last week (which was actually what prompted me to look at the GS), but I am really leaning towards the GS at the moment, the ride quality was in another league - the harsh ride was my main gripe with the CT - the GS performance is obviously in another league too, but I could probably live with CT levels of performance for the trade off of lower running costs. Buying one of these hybrids is for me at least, about having a car that hits the 3 R's - reliable, relaxing, refined. I am not really a fan of diesels or most German cars, and I do like an auto so I love the smoothness of the CVT in both the CT and GS which leaves conventional automatics looking a bit clunky.

[waypro]

Rob

I own a 2008 GS450h, to date I've never had an issue with it. The car has just over 70K. My only advise is to let Lexus do all servicing/MOT & repairs as not many independents will touch a Lexus hybrid. Don't let this worry you, Lexus don't try to rip people off over pricing & customer service is second to none. Last thing, I've driven this car all over Europe especially during the winter, never have I've driven a better car. I'd go for a GS over a CT any day of the week.

[Carl911]

I'm afraid there is no conparing the CT and GS.

i have driven the ct for a week and I can honestly say that it does most things fairly well and had I never driven the GS might of thought of it as a good all rounder.

unfortunately getting back in my GS its leagues better every respect.

in fact my wife's is250se-l is also a far superior drive when compared to the CT.

if I'm honest, I don't think you get the true Lexus comfort in the Ct, it just isn't quiet enough and the ride too firm.

if my friends we're to be driven in the CT a they would probably say, looks modern but otherwise fairly average no every other respect.

lexus to me means it needs to be quieter and more comfortable than the competition.

carl

 

[Rob373]

On ‎06‎/‎02‎/‎2016 at 2:32 PM, Mike Hartland said:

Firstly, the specs - as far as I know there is not a "Sport" version in that age range, it is something that came in with the 2012 version.

I suspected it might just be Autotrader hyperbole - but there is a silver pre-2012 model being sold as a "sport" on the official UK Lexus site...

GS450h Sport

[rayaans]

On 08/02/2016 at 0:58 AM, Rob373 said:

I suspected it might just be Autotrader hyperbole - but there is a silver pre-2012 model being sold as a "sport" on the official UK Lexus site...

GS450h Sport

SPORT was available in the GS450H pre 2012. F -Sport was added on the 4th gen GS

So yes, Sport spec is a rare sight and it has the body kit as you can see

[Mike Hartland]

I happily stand corrected, though with respect to "body kit" I cannot see anything on this one that is different to every other GS450H. Could someone elaborate for me.

[Darklore3003]

Front bumper lip and rear bumper lip. Also the badge has a blue background.

[KayCee]

/

Note to Rob373

here is  fully loaded 61 plate 1 owner FLSH 50,000 mile SE-L just in at a place 45 minutes away for £15k which I definitely want to check out, but it won't be prepped until Tuesday, so I will go and look at another couple tomorrow and I would also like to test drive another CT200.//

I went to see this veh yesterday they told me it would be available to view at 1 o'clock friday as it was in Prep I got there at 12 55 after driving from doncaster and was told was not ready yet would be another 15 min.

anyay it arrived at 1 50

Shock horror there was dings in just about every panel the rear tyres were down to the wear indicators(sman Oh theres 2 0r 3 thou on them yet) rear discs were badly pitted ( sman Oh they are fine) front discs at least a 1/8 inch lip on disc also pitted ( s man Nothing wrong with them most heavy cars like that) then i looked in car the drvers seat was totaly in shreds ripped (sman oh we will get upholsterer to fit new centre panel in seat not a problem) he also said we will get panel man to see to the scratches and dents you have to expect this from lease cars)

in conclusion it was the worst car i have ever seen why in gods name did they let anyone view it in this condition it looked like it had come from  a breakers yard it definatley as been abused suffice to say i turned on my heel and walked away

I thought i was seeing a one owner car he said as i walked away ring me tues and ill have new pics with the faults repaired

oh yesssss

Robert

[Carl911]

I will say that the one thing you will find is that the Lexus dealership cars attend to be the cream of the crop.

none the less, it's frustrating when a car is not as described. My GS was on the Lexus forecourt for £11,500 a year ago with one owner from new and 49k on the clock. It was immaculate. In fact I'd go as far to say it looked about two years old. Mine even had the original protective tapes on the sills and radio so really was  one of those gems.

like you, I have seen plenty of dogs in the past described as perfect.

keep looking though and the right one will appear. 

 

Carl

[KayCee]

Yes Carl  thanks for the comment

the most frustratring thing was he only offered 3.5k for my gs300 which in excellent condition said we cant sell the 300s now

im going to see one at mansfield on monday it looks ok  i do want a 450 but not one that as been abused

By the way Carl are they quiet as i noticed they have 18 wheels with low profile and usually you get tyre noise with low profile

my gs is whisper quiet with Toyo proxes on

thanks

Robert

[Mike Hartland]

Robert

Four months ago I changed my GS300 (17 inch wheels) for a GS450h (18 inch wheels). I have not noticed any increase in noise. All the better to hear that engine roar, once in a while!

Mike

[KayCee]

Mike

Are you satisfied with  the car, is there  anything untoward with them

As my car is a 55 i wanted one a bit newer but 300s finished in 2009 so i thought ide go for a 2010/11 SE L im still apprehensive but i am sure ill get my head round it when one pops up ive seen one 30 ml from here but its black same as mine but in truth i do  like black so wont be too much of a deal if its right got 43 k on it and also Dab radio

Another point Mike the one i saw at Leciester had 2 keys plus a credit type key i dont know what that does as i never stopped when i saw the condition of it

Another point do they have Daylight running litghs

Robert

[Mike Hartland]

Robert

I am very pleased with it. I went from a 2006 GS300 to a 2011 GS450H. Internally it very much the same so all the controls are exactly where you remember them to be.

Mine is the SE-L so it has the two keys and the credit card one. Actually it is about twice the thickness of a credit card but doesn't have any of the buttons. With the card permanently in my wallet I leave the ordinary key at home. It also has the DAB radio which may not be a big thing for some people but as the radio station that we like is only available on DAB it is handy and helped me "sell" the car to my wife. If the cooled seats that came on the GS300 are something you liked then you need to be aware that by 2010 they were only available on the SE-L.

The only problems that I had were that the Key card Battery was dead when I bought it (the dealer replaced it happily) and the electric motor wasn't kicking in as soon or early as I would have expected. This was because the car had not been moved much for six months and the hybrid Battery was pretty low. Once it had had a few good runs and was charged up it was fine.

There are no daylight running lights. Externally the car is very similar to what you are familiar with.

Oh, any excuse - here's a picture of my car, taken when it was on sale at Lexus Nottingham. I love it.

[Carl911]

I'm still trying to work out he differences between the se-l and she.

i see you don't have a sunroof.

do you have the radar lane detection thing and are your door scuff trims illuminated?

carl

[cruisermark]

10 hours ago, KayCee said:

/

Note to Rob373

here is  fully loaded 61 plate 1 owner FLSH 50,000 mile SE-L just in at a place 45 minutes away for £15k which I definitely want to check out, but it won't be prepped until Tuesday, so I will go and look at another couple tomorrow and I would also like to test drive another CT200.//

I went to see this veh yesterday they told me it would be available to view at 1 o'clock friday as it was in Prep I got there at 12 55 after driving from doncaster and was told was not ready yet would be another 15 min.

anyay it arrived at 1 50

Shock horror there was dings in just about every panel the rear tyres were down to the wear indicators(sman Oh theres 2 0r 3 thou on them yet) rear discs were badly pitted ( sman Oh they are fine) front discs at least a 1/8 inch lip on disc also pitted ( s man Nothing wrong with them most heavy cars like that) then i looked in car the drvers seat was totaly in shreds ripped (sman oh we will get upholsterer to fit new centre panel in seat not a problem) he also said we will get panel man to see to the scratches and dents you have to expect this from lease cars)

in conclusion it was the worst car i have ever seen why in gods name did they let anyone view it in this condition it looked like it had come from  a breakers yard it definatley as been abused suffice to say i turned on my heel and walked away

I thought i was seeing a one owner car he said as i walked away ring me tues and ill have new pics with the faults repaired

oh yesssss

Robert

I think i have just seen the car you saw - that picture of the door card looks like a dog has chewed it - and not the best photos either - rain on the leather - does not come across as very caring dealer

[cruisermark]

3 hours ago, Mike Hartland said:

Robert

I am very pleased with it. I went from a 2006 GS300 to a 2011 GS450H. Internally it very much the same so all the controls are exactly where you remember them to be.

Mine is the SE-L so it has the two keys and the credit card one. Actually it is about twice the thickness of a credit card but doesn't have any of the buttons. With the card permanently in my wallet I leave the ordinary key at home. It also has the DAB radio which may not be a big thing for some people but as the radio station that we like is only available on DAB it is handy and helped me "sell" the car to my wife. If the cooled seats that came on the GS300 are something you liked then you need to be aware that by 2010 they were only available on the SE-L.

The only problems that I had were that the Key card battery was dead when I bought it (the dealer replaced it happily) and the electric motor wasn't kicking in as soon or early as I would have expected. This was because the car had not been moved much for six months and the hybrid battery was pretty low. Once it had had a few good runs and was charged up it was fine.

There are no daylight running lights. Externally the car is very similar to what you are familiar with.

Oh, any excuse - here's a picture of my car, taken when it was on sale at Lexus Nottingham. I love it.

lovely looking car - only thing wrong with it - its not mine lol

[KayCee]

yes Mark i think you may be right it could have been a dog that had done it because it was in a right state i thought it had been slashed origionaly

When i got home and told wife she said " If you had part exed that they would have given you rock bottom price and Said it will have to go auction"

I agreed with her

Mike you came from 300 to 450 was the insurance much more i have full no claim was 305 last Oct for mine

Robert

 

 

[Mike Hartland]

Robert

I tend to let my wife deal with the insurance as her has more time and patience when it comes to trawling through the comparison and insurance company sites. From what I remember, it went up from around £300 to slightly over £400, largely because the new car was valued a lot higher then the old one. We actually ended up doing it through Lexus.

Mike