Lexus IS300h or BMW 3 Series Saloon?

[DJP]

You may know this already but just in case, the F Sport has a slightly firmer ride than the other derivatives.

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[rayaans]

6 minutes ago, DJP said:

You may know this already but just in case, the F Sport has a slightly firmer ride than the other derivatives.

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He did drive a 320d M Sport though so I would think he doesn't care about that. Still, the F-Sport has a better ride than the M-Sport BMW IMO

[PaulWhitt20]

Have you posted a similar thread on the BMW forum? Would be interesting to hear the BMW owners views.

[lordlen21]

Hi Dave,

The Infotainment system is a little awkward at first but you get used to it, I wouldn't let it put you off; sound quality is brilliant - the standard system is as good as BMW's HK system - but the DAB is a bit weird and not as easy to use as the iDrive. I really like the 70s design, especially the volume dial which is all metal and just falls easily to hand. Bluetooth audio, especially on my version, is rubbish, so I just plug my Iphone 5s into the USB socket and sound quality is excellent, be wary of the BMW system, not all models have Bluetooth audio and some even need a custom cable (£40) which sends the Iphone audio over analogue which is also rubbish. The standard Satnav is on a par with BMWs "Business Nav" which is standard on the M-Sport but the premium nav has much better traffic avoidance and wide screen. TBH, i find the TomTom app to be the best satnav but the Lexus built in unit is ok. The phone system is not quite as good as BMWs but I'm probably running an older version and some people complain of poor quality.

The fit/finish of the Lexus - as I've said before - is miles ahead of the BMW and feels more luxury; the nimbleness of the BMW however is far better, so it depends on how you drive as which car suits, the 320d is very quick. The Lexus "will" pick up speed, it just doesn't feel as taut and eager, the paddles are pointless but using the sport option does increase the urgency of the drivetrain and is quite addictive. 

I've found both dealers to be about the same and BMW tried hard to sort my road noise issues, which were, in the end just the large wheels and poor noise insulation. I did suffer an injector failure and BMW after sales service was impeccable; a hire car arrived the next day.

Cruise control is not as intuitive on the Lexus - standard not radar -  but I get very little opportunity to use it; the BMW, for example, allows you to set an actual speed, which is handy through roadworks, is a bit of guesswork in the IS300h and you can't see which was to push the lever without taking your eyes off the road and its bt=ot illuminated so unless you've remembered how it works, unusable in the dark.

I tried the active sound thing and immediately turned it off! Just sounds daft as the simulated gear changes are muffled by the real engine note which doesn't match.

I love my Lexus IS300h and wouldn't swap it for even the 330d BMW, it just seems to work extremely well on today's roads being quiet, refined, enough toys, great sound system and enough power for today's roads.

[rayaans]

2 minutes ago, PaulWhitt20 said:

Have you posted a similar thread on the BMW forum? Would be interesting to hear the BMW owners views.

They'll probably be full of the "nothing but a Toyota" remark

[rayaans]

3 minutes ago, lordlen21 said:

Hi Dave,

The Infotainment system is a little awkward at first but you get used to it, I wouldn't let it put you off; sound quality is brilliant - the standard system is as good as BMW's HK system - but the DAB is a bit weird and not as easy to use as the iDrive. I really like the 70s design, especially the volume dial which is all metal and just falls easily to hand. Bluetooth audio, especially on my version, is rubbish, so I just plug my iPhone 5s into the USB socket and sound quality is excellent, be wary of the BMW system, not all models have Bluetooth audio and some even need a custom cable (£40) which sends the iPhone audio over analogue which is also rubbish. The standard Satnav is on a par with BMWs "Business Nav" which is standard on the M-Sport but the premium nav has much better traffic avoidance and wide screen. TBH, i find the TomTom app to be the best satnav but the Lexus built in unit is ok. The phone system is not quite as good as BMWs but I'm probably running an older version and some people complain of poor quality.

The fit/finish of the Lexus - as I've said before - is miles ahead of the BMW and feels more luxury; the nimbleness of the BMW however is far better, so it depends on how you drive as which car suits, the 320d is very quick. The Lexus "will" pick up speed, it just doesn't feel as taut and eager, the paddles are pointless but using the sport option does increase the urgency of the drivetrain and is quite addictive. 

I've found both dealers to be about the same and BMW tried hard to sort my road noise issues, which were, in the end just the large wheels and poor noise insulation. I did suffer an injector failure and BMW after sales service was impeccable; a hire car arrived the next day.

Cruise control is not as intuitive on the Lexus - standard not radar -  but I get very little opportunity to use it; the BMW, for example, allows you to set an actual speed, which is handy through roadworks, is a bit of guesswork in the IS300h and you can't see which was to push the lever without taking your eyes off the road and its bt=ot illuminated so unless you've remembered how it works, unusable in the dark.

I tried the active sound thing and immediately turned it off! Just sounds daft as the simulated gear changes are muffled by the real engine note which doesn't match.

I love my Lexus IS300h and wouldn't swap it for even the 330d BMW, it just seems to work extremely well on today's roads being quiet, refined, enough toys, great sound system and enough power for today's roads.

I thought you literally press the button and flick the thing down to set it? Not complicated at all. Then you just hit it up and down to adjust speed. 

[ganzoom]

My last car was a E90 335i, retrofitted with BMW's CIC sat nav - it's not the latest but functionally not far off the current NBT system.

The user interface on the iDrive system on the BMW is much better than the Lexus. The Lexus system had all the functionally (You CAN do full 7 digit post code searching), but it's presented in a horrible way.

But interms of actual gadgets the IS300H is stuffed full, ours has everything from auto folding mirrors to adaptive cruise control, auto highly beam...There's almost too many toys :)

The suspension/handling of the IS300H is also much better than my old E90. The body roll is well controlled but it's the damping that's really effective. You can go over speed bumps much quicker than the M-sport set up in BMWs. Rather than getting a spine shattering thud, all you get is a graceful body control regardless of road conditions. 

Infact the standard suspension set up on the IS300H is just as good as the £1000+ Bilstein Birds B3 kit I had fitted to the E90.

Powertrain wise it's unfair to compare the IS300H to the 335i. One is setup to cruise using tried and tested Toyota hybrid tech the other is the best it gets interms of turbo charged petrol tech. 

Overall I would say the IS300H is a much better car than my old E90 BMW. Just bare in mind I haven't driven the F30 cars, but all the reviews suggest the F30 isn't that much better than the E90, if anything the steering feel of the E90 is better. 

[DJP]

You may know this already but just in case, the F Sport has a slightly firmer ride than the other derivatives.

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He did drive a 320d M Sport though so I would think he doesn't care about that. Still, the F-Sport has a better ride than the M-Sport BMW IMO

What I was trying to get across was if he wants the sportier ride make sure the test drive is in an F Sport.

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[Dave748]

Hi Guys,

Thank you all of you for your comments and information, all very relevant and very useful.  I have posted an almost identical post in the BMW forums but not had anywhere near the response from that forum as I have from this one but the ones I have had have been relevant.  One guy told me his brother has the same Lexus that I'm looking at and said he thinks it's the best car he has ever owned so that's encouraging.  I don't think I need much more info now I just need to have a go in one, someone near the top mentioned the auto full beam, is this standard? also the auto headlights on? What about Xenon lights?  Or is this just certain trim levels?

[rayaans]

3 hours ago, Dave748 said:

Hi Guys,

Thank you all of you for your comments and information, all very relevant and very useful.  I have posted an almost identical post in the BMW forums but not had anywhere near the response from that forum as I have from this one but the ones I have had have been relevant.  One guy told me his brother has the same Lexus that I'm looking at and said he thinks it's the best car he has ever owned so that's encouraging.  I don't think I need much more info now I just need to have a go in one, someone near the top mentioned the auto full beam, is this standard? also the auto headlights on? What about Xenon lights?  Or is this just certain trim levels?

Ok so the Auto high beam is included in the adaptive cruise control package on Premier models only. Xenon headlights are fitted to all cars as standard and I think they're all auto lights as well.

[ganzoom]

Even the base spec cars are well equipped compared to BMWs. We only went for the top spec because the car is for my wife and she keeps her cars for nearly 10 years at a time, so it was worth spending the extra £££.

One feature which I really think Lexus should make 'standard' is the pre-crash alert system. It's now available on even a Fiesta, and standard on the C-class and A4, but to get it on the IS300H you have to order the top spec car.

Its come on once in our car, and boy does it warn you about a potential crash. I was distracted by the satnav whilst in slow moving traffic and took my eyes off the car in front for only a few seconds, in that time the car in front suddenly stopped, and the dash board on the IS lite up like a X mas tree, without even realising what was going on I stamped the brake and the car stopped well in time of any potential impact.

This kind of kit needs to be standard in ALL cars. I know I get distracted whilst driving and I'm pretty sure 100% of other road users too. These systems can only help reduce the incidence of accidents.

I suspect Lexus will wait till the IS300H is facelifted before making the kit standard....No signs of them doing it for the MY16 cars :(

Edited January 27, 2016 by ganzoom

[Dave748]

19 hours ago, Steve44 said:

Even the base spec cars are well equipped compared to BMWs. We only went for the top spec because the car is for my wife and she keeps her cars for nearly 10 years at a time, so it was worth spending the extra £££.

One feature which I really think Lexus should make 'standard' is the pre-crash alert system. It's now available on even a Fiesta, and standard on the C-class and A4, but to get it on the IS300H you have to order the top spec car.

Its come on once in our car, and boy does it warn you about a potential crash. I was distracted by the satnav whilst in slow moving traffic and took my eyes off the car in front for only a few seconds, in that time the car in front suddenly stopped, and the dash board on the IS lite up like a X mas tree, without even realising what was going on I stamped the brake and the car stopped well in time of any potential impact.

This kind of kit needs to be standard in ALL cars. I know I get distracted whilst driving and I'm pretty sure 100% of other road users too. These systems can only help reduce the incidence of accidents.

I suspect Lexus will wait till the IS300H is facelifted before making the kit standard....No signs of them doing it for the MY16 cars :(

Yes, it is a bit strange that this would be a premium feature on a car that's so highly spec'd in other areas even at the standard model especially as it's also safety feature.  As I'm buying second hand I can wait for the right model I want to come along with the right spec.  

My only real concern is the efficiency right now, I know someone who said they used to have a Lexus and had to get rid of it because it cost so much to run, hence the hybrid I'm going for, but I'll have it for a day so even though I know I won't get the best out of it until I learn how to drive it, it will give me some idea.

[gdh300]

I assume Dave, you are the same daveC748 currently with 43 replies to your post on the Honest John form?

I commented there, so won't repeat myself...

[Dave748]

Yes, yes I am, I'm stating to think I may have taken my choosing of a car bit too seriously.  I just like to really research things before I make a decision.

[ganzoom]

Running cost wise interms of mpg our IS300H is a bit more economical than our old diesel Civic, but unless your doing 20k per year 5 mpg difference here and there is not really noticeable.

I also did a lot of research before deciding to go for the IS300H over a C class / XE / XF. Under the skin it's running Toyota Priuis tech which is about as reliable as you can get. Taxi drivers don't tend to use unreliable/uneconomical cars.

Lexus servicing is expensive, but no more so than BMW etc. However I'll using our local independent, who charges about 1/2 of what a Lexus main dealer will quote you :).

[gdh300]

46 minutes ago, Dave748 said:

Yes, yes I am, I'm stating to think I may have taken my choosing of a car bit too seriously.  I just like to really research things before I make a decision.

It's a very serious business! I'm very much the same. But you've come to the right place asking here, lots of knowledge here. 

[Charlysdad]

I have had a BMW 320d although the efficient dynamic not the M.  Although it was a god car, it always felt like a workhorse rather than a luxury drive.  My Lexus Is300h always makes me feel a bit special whenever I get into it.  Older is300s did have a clunky info system but mine is a dream to use.  Sound system is great and interfaces with both my works Iphone and my own Sony phone.  I generally leave my iPod plugged into one of the USB ports and this works seamlessly.  I tend to spend most of the time in Eco mode and get around 50 to the gallon on mixed driving, not as good as the BMW, but I tended to do more motorway cruising with this, sport mode is great away from the lights or overtaking uphill.  As everybody else has said, you won't get the same spec BMW for the price.  Servicing is more regular as Lexus is fixed at 10000 miles whereas the BMW's depended on how you drive it, I only had two services in 50000 miles plus.  There is a screen to show you how the power is being distributed between engine, electric motor and Battery which I always find interesting and helps with the mpg.  You do have to tweak your driving style slightly to get the best mileage but you will soon pick this up.  All things considered I do not regret going for the Lexus and you will certainly feel more exclusive when you see all of the Beemers, Audis etc on the road.

[Dave748]

Thanks, looking forward to the test drive in 2 days time.  One shame is I love the mean look of the F-Sport but want the spec and drive of the premier.  I was thinking of trying to work out how much is would cost to make a premier look like the F-Sport.  As far as I can tell looks wise its a front grille and some different wheels but I bet your talking 1000's, also like the blue despite the misuses moaning but not seen any premier in blue yet.  

[PaulWhitt20]

The light blue is f sport only. Mesa red is nice if you want a colour other than black, white, grey etc.

Hope the test drive is helpful.

Be an individual not a sheep....

[Dave748]

I guess you can't have everything but I also like the Black that's a mirror like effect, don't know what it's called but also looks good, then just wheels and front grille.  Tried searching for the parts, wheels are over £700, each and literally can't find the F-Sport front grille anywhere.

[dutchie01]

i drove a 320i estate from 2012 till last summer. brandnew car and lots of kit which of course is not standard. now drive a new is300h f sport. Both are very good cars but also very different cars. buy the bmw and you will be part of the bmw club. it is one of the most sold cars the 3 series outsells the mondeo. the airport carpark is full of them and it literally happened several times that i tried to open a black 3 series that wasnt mine.... the 320 dieselengine is more powerful than the lexus but it does rattle and shake while the lexus is eerily silent and has no vibrations. the 3 series wins on the idrive and satnav which is clearly better than the lexus. diesel smells when filling up i hate that. chassis and roadholding more or less thesame  but the lexus is more comfortable. interior in the bmw i think is very conservative nothing changed much since 1995. the lexus is way more modern with lots of toys to play with. fit and finish in the lexus is soo much batter it puts the bm to shame. my bm did have some annoying rattles from the dash and sounds from below the car. the bm will have better fuel consumption and more torque. do you buy the bmw with an autobox? standard in the lexus. and then there are the looks. compared to the Fsport the 320 looks bland, old ( in my opinion).  

anyway whatever you choose it will be ok both are good cars but the lexus honestly feels a class higher. if you look at the car and sit behind the wheel what do you feel/think? if the answer is - i want this one-  then do it, go for it!

 

 

 

[rayaans]

51 minutes ago, Dave748 said:

I guess you can't have everything but I also like the Black that's a mirror like effect, don't know what it's called but also looks good, then just wheels and front grille.  Tried searching for the parts, wheels are over £700, each and literally can't find the F-Sport front grille anywhere.

You'd have to get the parts from Lexus directly. My invoice shows the bumper and fender to be £2700 altogether including painting as they dont come pre painted. With the grill and wheels you'd be looking at around £4-5k easily. Not really worth it. 

IMO you don't really need the premier. Only some models come with the adaptive cruise control which will be hard to find and apart from that it just has ML audio (The pioneer unit in the IS F-Sport with premium nav is 90% there) and a slightly softer ride (not much honestly). You do get the BSM but I dont really need that as Im used to driving on the motorway and I found the RCTA so annoying when reversing.

There are 2 blacks - Velvet black (solid and deep) and Celestial black (has gold flakes in it and is somewhat lighter as a result)

[Dave748]

You're right if it does cost that, really not worth it.  It's the little things that make the premier feel just that little bit more special like the auto full beams.  I'll have a good chat with the dealer on Saturday anyway and get the low down all the differences so I can make my mind up.

[gdh300]

Have you eliminated the Audi from your search now Dave, just the BMW and Lexus in it? What was the reasoning there?

[Dave748]

Yes I eliminated the Audi early on, not long after I created this thread actually.  The reasoning was that I found the exterior and interior of the Audi, boring to be honest.  Nothing about it made me feel like I wanted to own it.  I felt like the inside was bland and minimalist, rather like the BMW but I preferred the exterior look of the BMW and like I said found the exterior of the Audi just as boring as the inside.  Also there are so many Audi's around it's ridiculous, another would be nothing more than white noise in my work car park.  Same could be said for the BMW but if I had to choose between the two it would be the BMW.

I actually looked hard today in work for a Lexus and then I looked after work through town and in the public car parks.  I didn't see a single one, I have only seen one IS300h since I decided I may buy one and usually it goes that once you start looking for a particular car you see them all over the place.  Not in this case, that's an attractive property, though, not the reason why I would buy the Lexus.