Lexus IS300h or BMW 3 Series Saloon?

[Bratman91]

Many years ago and in my youth, I owned a newish Riley one and a half litre saloon (not to be confused with a Riley 1.5). It was a beautiful car but not exactly very spritely, with pedestrian acceleration and low top speed even for that time. I mentioned this to my boss, an older man who also owned the same model of car. His reply was "what matters is not the going, but the manner of the going". I suspect that the BMW has the going but the Lexus almost certainly will have the manner of the going.

[Dave748]

Hi All,

So I finally took some photo's, I followed rayaans detailing guide not using all the exact same products but near enough the same process.  Taken me all day, the missus won't stop moaning at me for how long it took but I got pics of it looking it's best so here they are.

[stevet]

Wow! That's come up really well. Love that blue when it pops.

[Deadloak]

Tell me about cleaning the car. My Wife says I'm obsessed, if I clean it twice in a month. :)

Worth the wait for the photo's, very nice.

David.

[DJP]

That looks very good indeed [emoji106]

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[BigChange]

I have enjoyed reading this discussion.  I also switched after 20 years of BMW (fed up after 2 blown turbos) and agonized over the decision.  A good price from Lexus helped and I am very relieved that Dave748 also decided on Lexus.  Same model also. It was a difficult decision and after 3 months am still not wholly convinced.  Perhaps when summer arrives and mpg improves I will be more relaxed.  In the meantime am enjoying gliding along and grappling with the satnav, etc.

Dave748 car looks superb. On the mucky country roads around me that beautiful finish would be gone in no time.  Incidentally thanks for the claying discussion.  I always thought that sort of cleaner stripped off a tiny layer of the surface.  Like TCut ?

[Dave748]

1 hour ago, BigChange said:

I have enjoyed reading this discussion.  I also switched after 20 years of BMW (fed up after 2 blown turbos) and agonized over the decision.  A good price from Lexus helped and I am very relieved that Dave748 also decided on Lexus.  Same model also. It was a difficult decision and after 3 months am still not wholly convinced.  Perhaps when summer arrives and mpg improves I will be more relaxed.  In the meantime am enjoying gliding along and grappling with the satnav, etc.

Dave748 car looks superb. On the mucky country roads around me that beautiful finish would be gone in no time.  Incidentally thanks for the claying discussion.  I always thought that sort of cleaner stripped off a tiny layer of the surface.  Like TCut ?

Hi Change,

When I did the claying I also thought it was going to be a lot more abrasive than it was, it didn't feel abrasive at all and it's surprising how many streaks it picks up even after a very thorough wash.  It also highlighted some patches that it couldn't remove that but were hard to see, they came off with a good one finger scrub with a cloth.  I also live in the country side and my daily commute is all country roads so I'm not expecting it to stay that clean for very long at all, probably until the first day it rains.  Nice while it lasts but easier to keep clean if you do it often, also I used bilt double speed wax that should help a bit and rain-x on the glass.

[rayaans]

5 hours ago, BigChange said:

I have enjoyed reading this discussion.  I also switched after 20 years of BMW (fed up after 2 blown turbos) and agonized over the decision.  A good price from Lexus helped and I am very relieved that Dave748 also decided on Lexus.  Same model also. It was a difficult decision and after 3 months am still not wholly convinced.  Perhaps when summer arrives and mpg improves I will be more relaxed.  In the meantime am enjoying gliding along and grappling with the satnav, etc.

Dave748 car looks superb. On the mucky country roads around me that beautiful finish would be gone in no time.  Incidentally thanks for the claying discussion.  I always thought that sort of cleaner stripped off a tiny layer of the surface.  Like TCut ?

Claying doesn't strip a surface of the paint off, instead it takes off bits from the surface of the paint.

Its like shaving your face - think of the contamination as hairs and the clay bar/mitt as the razor. It takes off the contaminants and makes the paint smooth.

[Sibbo46]

If it's £20k of your own money rather than a company car you need to consider depreciation. I bought my first Lexus (RX400h) used approved for £14k. - 18 months later and about 7500 extra miles I've just Been offered £4800 against a £19k is300h : (      Even brand new Peugot's don't depreciate at that rate.  I can vouch for the excellent service but have had a few niggles - water leak into boot never resolved, Quote of over £400 to fix auto hid adjuster that I fixed myself for £14. As I tend to get bored and change cars fairly frequently I can't risk buying another Lexus - the depreciation way exceeds any reliability costs I have ever encountered. 

[rayaans]

10 minutes ago, Sibbo46 said:

If it's £20k of your own money rather than a company car you need to consider depreciation. I bought my first Lexus (RX400h) used approved for £14k. - 18 months later and about 7500 extra miles I've just Been offered £4800 against a £19k is300h : (      Even brand new Peugot's don't depreciate at that rate.  I can vouch for the excellent service but have had a few niggles - water leak into boot never resolved, Quote of over £400 to fix auto hid adjuster that I fixed myself for £14. As I tend to get bored and change cars fairly frequently I can't risk buying another Lexus - the depreciation way exceeds any reliability costs I have ever encountered. 

You do realise that the P/X value is not what its worth right? You're car will easily be worth £7-8k privately. They've given you a lowball figure TBH which means you either paid too much for it in the first place or they dont really want it.

The depreciation seems normal to be £14k used, stick another owner on it it drops £2k to £12k. Then add 18 months and its £3-4k so you get £9k showroom price. Trade price is a lot less than showroom price, especially if you havent had it serviced by Lexus as they can't stick in through the "Toyota and Lexus Priority" auctions so you end up with a low figure.

Also, the RX400h is a petrol SUV thats not exactly cheap on fuel or tax and there you have it.

The new Lexus NX holds its value like a rock, so does the IS300h TBF

[capese21]

I traded my IS300H Fsport in for a GS300H.  I got over book for the IS and paid below book for the GS.  I buy a car because I like it and it suits my needs.  Even if  Peugeots do depreciate less which I doubt,  I would not touch one with a barge pole because I cannot stand them. Life is to short to drive around in a Peugeot!!

 The Lexus NX is one of the slowest depreciating cars and no Lexus is in the below average section.  Prices vary between dealers to as I found out when trading in my IS for a GS. I walked away a few times before I was happy.

 

Ed

[rayaans]

1 hour ago, capese21 said:

I traded my IS300H Fsport in for a GS300H.  I got over book for the IS and paid below book for the GS.  I buy a car because I like it and it suits my needs.  Even if  Peugeots do depreciate less which I doubt,  I would not touch one with a barge pole because I cannot stand them. Life is to short to drive around in a Peugeot!!

 The Lexus NX is one of the slowest depreciating cars and no Lexus is in the below average section.  Prices vary between dealers to as I found out when trading in my IS for a GS. I walked away a few times before I was happy.

 

Ed

That's very true. Just looking at new RX used prices and they're ranging from £49k for a 1500 mile F Sport to the same price for a 9000 mile one

[ganzoom]

20 hours ago, Sibbo46 said:

If it's £20k of your own money rather than a company car you need to consider depreciation. I bought my first Lexus (RX400h) used approved for £14k. - 18 months later and about 7500 extra miles I've just Been offered £4800 against a £19k is300h : (      Even brand new Peugot's don't depreciate at that rate.  I can vouch for the excellent service but have had a few niggles - water leak into boot never resolved, Quote of over £400 to fix auto hid adjuster that I fixed myself for £14. As I tend to get bored and change cars fairly frequently I can't risk buying another Lexus - the depreciation way exceeds any reliability costs I have ever encountered. 

You 'lost' 70% value of the car in 18 months.... I'm afarid to say thats got nothing to do with the car,  but the dealer who sold it to you saw you coming from a mile away. 

Lexus main dealers are con-artists just like every other car dealer. I learnt that lesson a long time ago. Essentially you paid far too much for the last car and the dealer (same??)  now sees a chance to get another pay bonus courtesy of yourself. 

Tell them where they can stick their PX price and sell it your self.  Ive sold 3 cars via auto trader in the last 12 months,  all went for much more than PX price,  and all sold within a 4 weeks of been advertised to the first viewer. Its really not that hard work. 

 

[Sibbo46]

Ganzoom you are absolutely spot on. I've just got lazy and nervous of scammers as I've got older. I know premium dealers have high overheads but I really thought the PC price was taking the p*ss

[rayaans]

1 minute ago, Sibbo46 said:

Ganzoom you are absolutely spot on. I've just got lazy and nervous of scammers as I've got older. I know premium dealers have high overheads but I really thought the PC price was taking the p*ss

It does take the *****! Especially if they dont want the car! They have trouble offloading 400h's now that the 450h's are going down in price.

[RichyRich]

Wow this is probably the longest discussion (apart from my own) I've read,  need to go back about the Claying mentioned as not sure what that even is?  Pigeon's sping to mind. @Dave748 how is your F-Sport fairing now, 4 months on?  I am also a IT Contractor but decided to buy new as it's going through the business which I've done the numbers on and yes it's not cheap but get's me in the car I want sooner.  Mine is on it's way from the factory in Japan I am told in Sonic Titanium, F-Sport with Premium Nav and Dark Rose leather.  Love reading people's views on this car.  Also I found out the Facelift model isn't going to be out until 2017 so that dealer told you a little fib, not that it matters now.  

 

[rayaans]

4 hours ago, RichyRich said:

Wow this is probably the longest discussion (apart from my own) I've read,  need to go back about the Claying mentioned as not sure what that even is?  Pigeon's sping to mind. @Dave748 how is your F-Sport fairing now, 4 months on?  I am also a IT Contractor but decided to buy new as it's going through the business which I've done the numbers on and yes it's not cheap but get's me in the car I want sooner.  Mine is on it's way from the factory in Japan I am told in Sonic Titanium, F-Sport with Premium Nav and Dark Rose leather.  Love reading people's views on this car.  Also I found out the Facelift model isn't going to be out until 2017 so that dealer told you a little fib, not that it matters now.  

 

clay bar. BILT HAMBER do the best one IMO. It removes contaminants from the paint such as iron particles and tar spots

Sprinkle water on the panel and then rub it across until the paint feels smooth to the hand

[RichyRich]

3 hours ago, rayaans said:

Clay bar. BILT HAMBER do the best one IMO. It removes contaminants from the paint such as iron particles and tar spots

Sprinkle water on the panel and then rub it across until the paint feels smooth to the hand

Thanks @rayaans is this the stuff ?  https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bilt-Hamber-Auto-Clay-Regular/dp/B002OHSGHQ

 

[rayaans]

Yes that's it. Cut it into 4 pieces with a knife and use a quarter. Go for the medium one though, regular is too stiff

[RichyRich]

4 minutes ago, rayaans said:

Yes that's it. Cut it into 4 pieces with a knife and use a quarter. Go for the medium one though, regular is too stiff

There are Soft, Medium and Regular.  Is soft not effective enough?   How often do you use it as well?

[rayaans]

1 hour ago, RichyRich said:

There are Soft, Medium and Regular.  Is soft not effective enough?   How often do you use it as well?

There's no difference in terms of abrasiveness. The soft, medium and regular grades refer to the hardness of the bar.

Soft is too sticky whilst regular needs heating up. Medium works well 90% of the time. 

Once every year should be ok really

[Sazabi2001]

I know I'm a bit late for this post, but 2 months ago I did carefully think about BMW 520D (not 320D, but close I guess) and IS300h.

the BMW is lighter, even 520D is lighter than IS300h, and BMW seems to have more aluminum parts in suspension arms, so I guess handling is better. Also a 'real' gearing transmission from BMW gives you better sport performance than CVT transmission anyway. Though my poor driving skill never tell any different during test drive.

For fuel economy, I think BMW can have optional 8-speed auto, which better over-drive gearing for high-way fuel efficiency, plus the nature of diesel engine, Toyota hybrid can't simply beat them.

===

But at the end I chose IS300h, main reason was reliability (I hope). One thing (btw, not 100% sure) I know about the Toyota hybrid drive, especially the 3rd generation hybrid system, is that it does not have any mechanical friction part in the transmission. No clutch, no locking up, no fluid-coupling and no torque converter . It seems the new hybrid box use 2-MGs (Motor-Generator) to provide magnetic force instead of mechanical friction, so this is the reason why it feel 'slow' and artificial. But since there is no mechanical friction, there should be no wear and no heat generated, the transmission theoretically lasts much longer.

Also the Atkinson cycle engine is long stroke thing for efficiency but not power-weight ratio, it means it is a bigger piece of metal with less power.. Which should last longer as well.  

[rayaans]

12 hours ago, Sazabi2001 said:

I know I'm a bit late for this post, but 2 months ago I did carefully think about BMW 520D (not 320D, but close I guess) and IS300h.

the BMW is lighter, even 520D is lighter than IS300h, and BMW seems to have more aluminum parts in suspension arms, so I guess handling is better. Also a 'real' gearing transmission from BMW gives you better sport performance than CVT transmission anyway. Though my poor driving skill never tell any different during test drive.

For fuel economy, I think BMW can have optional 8-speed auto, which better over-drive gearing for high-way fuel efficiency, plus the nature of diesel engine, Toyota hybrid can't simply beat them.

===

But at the end I chose IS300h, main reason was reliability (I hope). One thing (btw, not 100% sure) I know about the Toyota hybrid drive, especially the 3rd generation hybrid system, is that it does not have any mechanical friction part in the transmission. No clutch, no locking up, no fluid-coupling and no torque converter . It seems the new hybrid box use 2-MGs (Motor-Generator) to provide magnetic force instead of mechanical friction, so this is the reason why it feel 'slow' and artificial. But since there is no mechanical friction, there should be no wear and no heat generated, the transmission theoretically lasts much longer.

Also the Atkinson cycle engine is long stroke thing for efficiency but not power-weight ratio, it means it is a bigger piece of metal with less power.. Which should last longer as well.  

The nature of diesel and petrol is a matter of perspective.

Im sure most on this forum would agree that diesel engines are unrefined and unworthy of being in a luxury car

[Sazabi2001]

1 hour ago, rayaans said:

The nature of diesel and petrol is a matter of perspective.

Im sure most on this forum would agree that diesel engines are unrefined and unworthy of being in a luxury car

Since I learn engine combustion in my degree.. I think diesel engine is more technological complex and advanced than petrol engine, also more efficiency in terms of combustion, and more refined in terms of mechanical design.

But for the luxurious, it is a different story.

[BarnsEire]

Hi,

Just read this thread with great interest. Have driven an Alfa GT for the last 10 years. Beautiful looking car and great performance but now need a change. Unfortunately, my budget restricts me to about 17k, and I'm based in ireland and as a result of government tax strategy, the only three/four year old cars to buy here are all diesels, and I'd like petrol/hybrid, so am looking to import one from the UK. Like Dave I was edging between the IS300 and a BMW 330e. This thread is really nudging me towards the Lexus. I really love the look of the F series and think the blue is striking.  Has anyone any recommendations of web sites to monitor and also would I be crazy to consider something like this Cat C on Autotrader.

Thanks,

Barns.

PS. Just saw thread was 2years old, apologies for the resurrection.