Lexus IS300h or BMW 3 Series Saloon?

[Dave748]

OK, so I know that posting this in a Lexus forum will open myself up to a barrage of bias comments but please if you do have something to say try to be as un-bias as you can, constructive and justify your comments so they are actually useful.

So, I've decided that for my next car I'm going to dig a little deeper into my pockets and get something decent, comfortable and an easy driving bit of luxury.  Right now I've narrowed my choices down to a Lexus IS300h and a BMW 3 Series saloon 320d.  I've had a test drive in the BMW (an M-Sport in exactly my price range) about a few hours ago actually and I have to say it did feel like a nice solid well put together car, looked great on the outside with the large M sport alloys in the exact colour I would chose but a little bland on the inside I have to say and the seats were a bit narrow, the wings of the seat stuck in my back a bit.  All in all I wasn't blown away by it but not put off either, it felt like a sensible choice.

My next choice is a Lexus IS300h, the nearest dealer is quite a bit further away but I will be going over to have a go in one and see one in the flesh before I decide.  At the moment my main concern is the engine, I've never had a hybrid before or a Lexus so don't know how reliable they are.  I don't do much city or suburban driving and don't get stuck in traffic it's mainly country and B roads so I'm worried that I won't see much of the efficiency of the Hybrid as compared to the BMW diesel engine.  I explained my predicament to the BMW sales person and he was very understanding and didn't in anyway try to put me off the Lexus he just gave me exactly what I wanted, the facts and figures of the car I was looking at.

I really am 50/50 on this right now, I know I still need to see and try the Lexus but when your spending a lot of money you want to make sure you do as much as possible to make the right fully informed decision.  I'm not buying new, my budget is around £20000 and price wise both cars are almost identical for what I want.  If anyone can help shed some light on my situation please do so but like I said please try to keep it un-bias (I know that's a bit silly to ask in a Lexus forum but try anyway)  but also constructive and justifiable.

 

Thanks in Advance

Dave

[PaulWhitt20]

Hi, welcome to the forum.

I have had my IS for about a month and like it. I have never had a diesel or BMW so cannot comment on that apart from if you intend spending a lot of time going up and down the motorway at 80 mph then get a diesel. The hybrid works best around town where the Battery can be used to full affect.

Have a test drive in an IS. You can usually get a 24h test drive if you want and they may even deliver the car to you to try it instead of you going to them. But visiting a Lexus dealer is an experience in itself. No major concerns over reliability. Most negative comments on the IS seem to be about the sat nav.

I am sure others will chip in with more comments and suggestions. Explore the forum.

[Aztectt2000]

I came from a 320d and overall loved the car. It felt raw and powerful in a way that the IS doesn't. That being said I chose the IS over the BMW as its a much nicer place to sit for extended periods and is way smoother and relaxing.

If you fancy tearing around and like the BMW image then go for that. If you fancy understated quality and a more relaxing drive take the IS.

[Dave748]

Thanks,

I only do the occasional 3 hour motorway trip at the moment, mainly its my commute to work that's about 17 miles each way on country and B roads, not single track but windy and hilly 40 - 60 mph roads.

[DJP]

Welcome to the forum. I've never had a BMW before but been driven around in plenty. I think you will find the Lexus to be a very pleasant place to be and suspect the refinement and spec will be better in the Lexus. Reliability should not be an issue either, Lexus are renowned for build quality. The commute might not suit the hybrid brilliantly, particularly the hills, but if you are driving at a reasonably average pace, i.e. in traffic it should fare ok. It will handle well but a Lexus doesn't drive like a BMW, if you know what I mean. As ever the best advice is have a lengthy test drive.

Do let us know how you get on!

Sent from my Iphone using Tapatalk

[200h]

i've never had a bmw the brand doesn't do anything for me ,what i can say about the IS300h is my daily commute is approx 26 miles per day

i spend about 15 - 20 minutes around town and about 30 minutes of motorway driving per day and i am returning just over 47 mpg at the moment

on motorway journey's the hybrid doesn't work as hard as round town ,when you put your foot down the hybrid system cuts in to assist the car

accelerate rather than using loads of fuel to get you moving, OH  and dont forget the road tax is £10 / yr how much is the BM .

[Dave748]

4 minutes ago, 200h said:

i've never had a bmw the brand doesn't do anything for me ,what i can say about the IS300h is my daily commute is approx 26 miles per day

i spend about 15 - 20 minutes around town and about 30 minutes of motorway driving per day and i am returning just over 47 mpg at the moment

on motorway journey's the hybrid doesn't work as hard as round town ,when you put your foot down the hybrid system cuts in to assist the car

accelerate rather than using loads of fuel to get you moving, OH  and dont forget the road tax is £10 / yr how much is the BM .

OK, well that's not quite the same type of drive as I do but I see where your going with that, I'm in the process of organising a test drive of the Lexus so I'll see how that goes.  I'm not really looking at either one for the brand just the build quality, efficiency, reliability, comfort, drive feel and tech.  Both have pros and cons, I wish I could take the best parts of both I like and mash them together into one awesome car, but I can't.  

The BMW Tax is £10 for the first year and £30 per year after, when you're spending up to £20000 on a car £20 a year difference in TAX is not even a factor.

[rayaans]

34 minutes ago, Dave748 said:

OK, well that's not quite the same type of drive as I do but I see where your going with that, I'm in the process of organising a test drive of the Lexus so I'll see how that goes.  I'm not really looking at either one for the brand just the build quality, efficiency, reliability, comfort, drive feel and tech.  Both have pros and cons, I wish I could take the best parts of both I like and mash them together into one awesome car, but I can't.  

The BMW Tax is £10 for the first year and £30 per year after, when you're spending up to £20000 on a car £20 a year difference in TAX is not even a factor.

When you're spending £20k on a car I dont think the fuel efficiency will be a factor as well unless you're doing crazy miles i.e 20k per year. Even then, the IS will get decent mpg if you drive it normally.

No hybrid concerns whatsoever, in fact Id bet a badger the IS300h is more reliable than the 320d. It has DPF issues like most other diesels and constantly gets clogged if doing low mileage. The biggest difference is the way the cars drive and feel. The IS is more comfortable and refined with a quiet cabin. The 320d is a gruff thing and Im not a big fan of the peaky engine either as Ive been driving naturally aspirated petrols my whole life.

The IS has a lot more kit as well. BMW's are either fully loaded or poverty pack, there never seems to be a medium

[capese21]

I am thinking of replacing my is300h Fsport. The dilemma is what to go for. I have looked at a used 2 years or less 3 series 320d and the specs seem poverty. Try to get sat nav, xenons leather memory seats rear camera  and the choice drops to just few, 5 on the BMW site nationally!  My Lexus has all of these most of them standard.

  A friend has a quite new 5 or 3 series GT and the seats are like sitting on plywood. I laughed to myself as he fumbled sticking his tomtom onto the windscreen with wires hanging down. Strange as it has an electric closing tailgate which is cool.

  I have to have the "wow this is superb" feeling with a new car and BMW just doesn't do it for me. The Lexus impressed me immediately and still does.  I am very tempted by an Jag XE Rsport though.

I still remember the timing chain/N47 engine problem that BMW  had. Its probably unfair but it has stuck in my mind.   Engines self destructing etc.

The Lexus hybrid drive is excellent. Smooth quiet no rattle no DPF etc.  It is responsive and very nippy out of junctions which I like.  Yesterday I was driving along and thought I was doing 70 or less and was doing 95 oops didn't notice.

I would go for whatever floats your boat and only you know what that is.

 

Good Luck and let us know what you decide.

 

Ed

[lordlen21]

Hi Dave,

I came from a 2013 320i Sport to a 2015 is300h Exec and the cars are very different. The BMW is nippy - more so in 320d - and very light on its feet; whereas the Lexus doesn't like to be "rushed", it's more of a relaxed drive. The Lexus IS way more refined; I had issues with trim and road noise in the BMW and chopped it early as it drove me nuts! The stereo was woeful, the kit level poor and trim quality was not great. The Lexus, by contrast feels from a class above; whereas the BMW seems be like a large 1 series. 

I bought my Lexus on PCP in Aug 15 which I'd encourage as the APR is very low (2.7%) for a used car under a year old so worked out less per month than I was paying for the BMW. 

They're both good cars but in different ways, you tend to waft around in the Lexus in quiet comfort and get to love the quietness of the hybrid drivetrain, whereas the BMW is great at being hussled along on B roads but is not very relaxing, feeling a little noisy and unrefined. It comes down to what you want in a car but I'd encourage a 24 hour test drive in both. 

Bear in mind, you need to spend a lot more on the BMW to same the kit level and for me, the IS exec is great value for money.

So in summary, I never really liked the BMW from the start but really enjoy Lexus. 

[DanD]

You may want to look beyond the car and consider the overall Lexus ownership experience, which I believe to be better than anything else on the market (as confirmed by JD Power surveys and others)

My current car is my 2nd Lexus and will not be the last. Obviously I do like the cars, but even if a Lexus was number 3 out of 3 on my list of favourite cars, I would go for the Lexus every time because of the excellent service I have received from my local dealership.

The dealership is always spotlessly clean, the staff friendly without being condescending, professional and knowledgeable, and they will bend backwards to accommodate your needs. Cars are always returned clean inside and out, and ultimately I do not believe that maintenance costs of Lexus cars is any higher than that of the competition, namely Audi, MB or BMW. It is always easy to meet with a service technician if you have a specific query and they routinely send you video reports if required to save you from having to crawl under the car yourself.

I accept that this is unimportant to some people, and many will have a cynical view of this, pointing out that customers like me pay for the plush materials in the dealership etc. I can't disagree with that, but in my eyes, it is the same difference as staying in a 5 star hotel or a 2 star hotel. You pay your money and you make your choice.

Personally I like the peace of mind that comes with owning a Lexus. I also much prefer the image associated with the brand to that of their German competitors.

[Bluesman]

Welcome to the LOC

Hi Dave and welcome to the LOC, we are a friendly bunch and some of us even know how to pull them to bits and put them back together again, with of course the one bolt and washer left over.

I have had my Lexus Mk4 LS400 converted to run on LPG. I have had her for five and a half years and she has done around 150K and in the time I have had her a number plate lamp replaced, the V section on the exhaust system needed repairing £45  then apart from service itens tyres etc that is it and you will find the same story over 95% of Lexus owners.

We recommend you spend a couple of mins looking over the rules of the LOC, we will be asking questions later.

http://www.lexusownersclub.co.uk/terms-conditions/

Mike

[Dave748]

Hi All,

So I've arranged a test drive of the Lexus model I want this weekend (IS300h) and looking forward to it.  The Cheltenham dealer I'm going to almost instantly replied to my emails, even at 10pm which is dedication and customer service indeed so off to a good start.  They also offered for me to take it away for the night which I'm still deciding on but will probably take them up on the offer so I can get a real feel for it having never drove a hybrid before or a petrol for about 2 years. 

I know what to expect from the Lexus now thanks to lordlen21's post.  As opposed to the BMW that grabs a hold of you and drags and throws you to where your going (which is fun when you want it but not used all that often) the Lexus will gently waft me to where I want to be in relative comfort.  

After reading a few forums though I know some people have gripes which I hope some have been fixed, one thing that has been mentioned that I know will annoy the hell out of me is the Informant Centre screen auto going back to the main page when not been used in Nav and having no way of locking it to one screen.  Is this still the case?  I know it's nothing to do with the drive and car ect. but my Fitbit Surge used to do the same thing and I sent it back because it used to annoy me so much.  

Can anyone also tell me how often the servicing is and around how much?

Anyone also tell me about any software updates to the Informant System, are they free, are they often, is it any good.  I must admit the iDrive system looks pretty good and easy to use, I love gadgets and tech which is part of the reason why this car is a serious contender for me to the 3 Series.

Hows the Battery life of the electric engine? How long to the batteries last and do they degrade over time and by how much and how does this affect performance?

I will probable have more questions but of any can answer some of these that would be great.

Thanks Guys.

Regards

[DJP]

The screen can be set to one but if Lexus have an Achilles Heel many would say it's the nav and infotainment system. Plenty of Bluetooth connectivity issue and the like, although in fairness the resolution often turns out to be device rather than Lexus related. The whole infotainment and menu system can be difficult to master and intuitive it certainly isn't. When all's said and done though it wouldn't be a deal breaker for me.

Servicing is every 10k miles, 12k (I think) if a bought via a business lease. The dealer can quote you a service plan and some comment that the car is comparatively expensive to service.

As far as the hybrid Battery is concerned I'd suggest you have a look on the Lexus main site as there is some excellent info on how it works. In summary the Battery supports the petrol engine, and Lexus have years of experience in the hybrid market. Others will chime in I'm sure but I don't think there has been any degradation of the Battery in the way I think you mean.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[200h]

enjoy your test drive,dont expect to get the best milage out of the hybrid straight away it can take

a little time to get used to the hybrid system but you will learn how to get the car to run in EV mode

whilst driving around town,on the approach to a red light ease your foot off the accelerator and let

the motors do some braking and recharge the batteries at the same time then use the foot brake like on

any other car,dont forget to stick it in SPORT and give it a boot you wont be dissapointed

[Dave748]

O dear, this is a bit of a shame, I was swinging more towards the Lexus but the informant system was one of the things that I was most looking forward to.  I know a lot of people will say my priority should be the car but we all have our different tastes and priorities.  Also the servicing interval is much shorter than the BMW thats, I think he said 16k or 18k but I can cope with that and will likely get a service package.  I'm back to 50/50 Lexus/BMW now.   :-(

[capese21]

My phone  connects reliably via Bluetooth automatically everytime not failed yet. It reads out emails & text messages. The music plays off a usb stick or from a standard CD. I can also play DVD`s. The DAB radio is excellent.  Good sound quality to. I leave it is surround.  

I have the premium system with the mouse/joystick rather than the rotary wheel.

I find the menus easy to understand and have always found what I wanted to change easily enough.

People only post if there are issues.  I have never posted as not had any!

Try it for yourself.

 

Ed

[DJP]

These things are all quite subjective, and if the dealer is offering for you to have it overnight then I'd take him up on the offer and put the car and the infotainment system through your own test. For example, the car reads out your text messages and displays them on the screen. With some phones you can reply via the screen, with an Iphone you can't. That's an apple limitation, not Lexus.

The advice above about using Sport is good, the car can waft you around when you want it to, and be plenty pacy when required.

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[Dave748]

OK thanks for the info, I read somewhere, it may have been an old post and changed now, that you can't enter Post Codes into the Nav system.  Is this true and if so how do you set-up the Nav, by address? I Imagen that's a long and painstaking exercise if you do. 

[capese21]

UK post codes are all there as they are for Holland. Not France as they dont have post codes!! 

[steve2006]

The owner's manuals for the IS300h are available for free on the link below, may be worth taking a look regarding the Sat Nav and Infocentre operation before you do the test drive.

http://drivers.lexus.com/lexusdrivers/info/my-lexus/resources/submit-owners-manual-search;JSESSIONID_LEXUSDRIVERS=ZFpDWnkGVTpX7n2krZwGj1cSZN1wndJv28J2S1pt4vt1n0j1GV03!-1643345755?section=all&keywords=&searchType=&model=IS300&year=2016&x=27&y=12

[Steve44]

Dave,  the info screen can be set to stay on  which screen you wish,  it's a setting in the menu system. 

The phone you have will either make the system work well or cause frustration. Iphone and some android phones work well, others have some issues. My HTC One M9 works perfectly. 

Software upgrades are free from the dealer or certain ones can be downloaded and done yourself. There are 3 different media/Nav system options available with different features,  it will depend on which model you get to test. 

 

I would really recommend going on a long mixed road test. Try the car in  auto,  in Eco/Normal and sport modes,  plus remember to right stick for a bit of manual gear action. Also,  there is an active sound generator module and a control on the lower right side of the dash.  Try it up and down/off especially noticeable in Sport and manual mode. It will change your perception on the different characteristics of the car. 

Lastly,  check the spec of the Lexus, then try spec'ing a BMW to the same level and see the difference in cost. 

Enjoy. 

[rayaans]

25 minutes ago, Dave748 said:

OK thanks for the info, I read somewhere, it may have been an old post and changed now, that you can't enter Post Codes into the Nav system.  Is this true and if so how do you set-up the Nav, by address? I Imagen that's a long and painstaking exercise if you do. 

It does have full post code entry. Some people miss it as its on the second page.

Sport mode is plenty quick, almost too much in fact that the car is always in Normal mode for me. Takes off like a bat out of hell on the traffic lights too. If you go for the F-Sport you'll probably find that it handles better than the 3 series and the seats are perfect (dunno about you but the BMW seats are hard as hell!)

[Dave748]

8 minutes ago, Steve44 said:

Dave,  the info screen can be set to stay on  which screen you wish,  it's a setting in the menu system. 

The phone you have will either make the system work well or cause frustration. IPhone and some android phones work well, others have some issues. My HTC One M9 works perfectly. 

Software upgrades are free from the dealer or certain ones can be downloaded and done yourself. There are 3 different media/Nav system options available with different features,  it will depend on which model you get to test. 

 

I would really recommend going on a long mixed road test. Try the car in  auto,  in Eco/Normal and sport modes,  plus remember to right stick for a bit of manual gear action. Also,  there is an active sound generator module and a control on the lower right side of the dash.  Try it up and down/off especially noticeable in Sport and manual mode. It will change your perception on the different characteristics of the car. 

Lastly,  check the spec of the Lexus, then try spec'ing a BMW to the same level and see the difference in cost. 

Enjoy. 

Thanks but you really don't need to sell me on the spec, I know to spec a BMW to anywhere near as close to the Lexus it would be about 10K on top of the standard.  I'm not buying new but almost new so I'll be looking for the model and colour I want and if I decide to go with the lexus and I'll jump on it when I see the one.

Just been showing the missus the Lexus, I do like the look of the blue F-Sport with the dark alloys but she said it looks too much like the blue Lancer I just wrote off.  I hope not since this car will be about 4 times the price.

[rayaans]

27 minutes ago, Dave748 said:

Thanks but you really don't need to sell me on the spec, I know to spec a BMW to anywhere near as close to the Lexus it would be about 10K on top of the standard.  I'm not buying new but almost new so I'll be looking for the model and colour I want and if I decide to go with the lexus and I'll jump on it when I see the one.

Just been showing the missus the Lexus, I do like the look of the blue F-Sport with the dark alloys but she said it looks too much like the blue Lancer I just wrote off.  I hope not since this car will be about 4 times the price.

She wont be saying that when she gets her backside in the car though...... different league in terms of build quality. Or just get another colour?!