P0093 Help Needed To Decipher Data

is200 Newbie · March 12, 2016

2 hours ago, mikeyv said:

Good post, but we've brought all this on ourselves by ticking ever more ridiculous options when specifying a new car, more often than not at somebody elses expense.

I mean, can anybody explain the logic in having lights and wipers that turn themselves on automatically?

Doesn't anybody enjoy actually driving cars themselves anymore?

The ultimate in getting what we deserve is just around the corner, driverless cars are coming, and if the car coming towards you, relying solely on it's electrical system not to wipe you and your family out, has a Renault or Alfa badge on the bonnet, I wish you the very best of luck!!.

Got it in one - the strive to make cars technologically better ... sometimes a backward step. Noticed this week that Mercedes has applied to the gov in order to change the law to allow their new car owners to user the automatic overtaking option on their new cars. Scary, its getting to be your life in other road users hands

Maybe they should spend time in resolving the known faults on cars - that would be a bigger step forward rather than these automatic driven cars

mackemade · March 12, 2016

hi Badger, you are not going to belive what has just happened, i think we may be looking in the wrong place.

i gort in from work this afternoon and i had arranged to take the lexus down to have the injectors replaced, got in the car ( reader plugged in ready to go through the cycle of clearing the code in safe mode ) and drove off. as you can guess i am waiting for the inevitable. it did not happen , it is 5 miles to the motorway from my house it drove there fine then on to the motorway 15 miles later no lights average 39 MPG. drove for another 40 miles still the same.

so what is different ?

simple i filled it up with diesel on the way back from lexus, so i think that it is a vacuum problem most likely with the filler cap.... i will try it again in the morning and let you know if it is still ok.

Badger1966 · March 12, 2016

Omg, could this all be that simple? Well mine is back in Lexus on Monday and they have another Is220d in stock from which they can swap parts. I think I might just ask them to swap the filler cap! it sort of makes sense, no pressure to start with and of course after a while pressure starts to build up. I'm going to see if I can take the rubber seal off and turn it around or something, just to try and get a seal. Or could it be the actual cap?

And on the subject of mikeyv, when I drove the NX300h I was amazed that in cruise control mode, it actually braked when getting close to the vehicle in front. I had a play and it was crazy. Even setting the cruise at 50mph you could be in any traffic and it just does everything for you, all I had to do was steer! It was a bit scary at times though because when your in a bend in the road it looses contact with the vehicle in front and starts accelerating. And then suddenly catches up and stuffs the brakes on. I guess its really designed for motorways. It was such a strange experience putting complete faith in the cars ability to control it self.

mackemade · March 12, 2016

i guess that is why it would also have poor fuel economy, if it is struggling to make a vacuum when it is running it would be over fueling to compensate.

like i said i will try it again in the morning and see what happens, if it stays ok a few days in a row i am taking to the auction and getting rid, as to be honest i still dont trust the car...

is200 Newbie · March 12, 2016

On ‎23‎/‎02‎/‎2016 at 7:53 PM, is200 Newbie said:

Maybe a stab in the dark and I know nothing about diesels ..... wont cost anything but check the seal on the fuel cap or the caps on secure. The petrols create a vacuum and there has been a few reports of spurious goings on linked to unsecure petrol caps.

Its a reported problem on some Vauxhalls where the rubber seal fails causing issues.

On ‎23‎/‎02‎/‎2016 at 8:53 PM, Badger1966 said:

Hi, I have considered that possibility, but the system shows correct fuel pressure since I had the fuel filter done. Also I would imagine I would get problems all the time and not just until the engine starts to warm up. Unless the pressure builds up and then creates a seal. Having said that, nothing would surprise me! Unfortunately if Lexus cant find the problem next week, I am literally at the point of replacing parts until I cure the fault. Grim. I would like to think that lexus would not like the world to know that they can't fix one of there cars though!, lol

Any way, my journey back from head office, 25 miles. Outside temp 11 degrees. Started car, within 30 seconds into limp mode. Started again drove away and got around 200 meters until limp mode again. Started car and no problems again. Averaged 26.5 mpg. So, higher outside temp, less going into limp mode and slightly higher mpg than this morning.

I did another little test on my journey. 1st, 2nd, 3rd gear. flat road holding the throttle steady between 2000rpm and 2500rpm. Engine power was pulsing for want of better words. revs rising and falling very slightly and very rhythmically. You can also hear it. I could also feel it, as in I could feel my body moving forward and backwards sometimes. I can't help but think it can't get the fueling right. Which also makes me think thats the reason for the poor fuel economy, it's seriously over fueling, running very rich. And to that end, could that be the reason why I get the P0093 fault? Combined fuel consumption should be around 44mpg? Even if I was getting 30 mpg, that's, I think 37% less than it should be. Could that be enough extra fuel usage to make the ECU think the car has a fuel leak???

Did you actually check this?

As I mentioned above there have been reports on fuel caps not being secured on properly and its a recognised issue with some of the Vauxhall models where the rubber seals wear and do nor create a full seal.

Badger1966 · March 12, 2016

Yep, I did check this, but Lexus told me they had swapped everything they could. Mind you if they can't undo two bolts, who knows what they did, lol. I will try something myself tomorrow. But of course I will check with Lexus that they did try the cap.

mikeyv · March 13, 2016

Maybe I'm behind the times here, but I recall a good few years back seeing a car with a petrol tank that had deformed as a result of a blocked breather allowing a vacuum to occur.

Surely the seal on the filler cap is there to avoid spillage of fuel?

Wouldn't a vacuum have the effect of slowing the flow of fuel, it certainly used to?

Badger1966 · March 13, 2016

Indeed it would, but some fuel caps are vented, some are not. And I can't seem to find if the IS220d is or isn't. And I don't know if they are pressure sensitive like a radiator cap. As in letting pressure out at a certain pressure point. Any ideas?

mikeyv · March 13, 2016

52 minutes ago, Badger1966 said:

Indeed it would, but some fuel caps are vented, some are not. And I can't seem to find if the IS220d is or isn't. And I don't know if they are pressure sensitive like a radiator cap. As in letting pressure out at a certain pressure point. Any ideas?

The cap can be vented, or there can be a breather pipe fitted, I think, but air has to be able to replace fuel as it is used, and has to be able to escape as fuel is added.

I'm only guessing here, but if there is a breather pipe, could it be blocked?

By the way, I still think the auction block is the way to go with these cars, it would have the same effect as removing an aching tooth.

mikeyv · March 13, 2016

Sorry, didn't answer your question there, if the cap is vented, it will have an obvious opening to the tank side of the sealing ring.

Badger1966 · March 13, 2016

Ok, I just looked at the fuel cap seal. It's like a flapy o-ring. You will see what I mean if you look at it, I found an o-ring which I put below the flapy o-ring. And when I put the cap back on you could really feel the difference in fit, much more positive. But it didn't work, straight beck into limp mode. In the centre of the cap you can see a spring, I guess it must be some sort of pressure release valve. maybe that's broken?

mikeyv · March 13, 2016

19 minutes ago, Badger1966 said:

Ok, I just looked at the fuel cap seal. It's like a flapy o-ring. You will see what I mean if you look at it, I found an o-ring which I put below the flapy o-ring. And when I put the cap back on you could really feel the difference in fit, much more positive. But it didn't work, straight beck into limp mode. In the centre of the cap you can see a spring, I guess it must be some sort of pressure release valve. maybe that's broken?

Simple test, run it without the cap on.

mackemade · March 13, 2016

update, took the car out this morning, it went for about 2 miles then into limp mode, reset it and took it for a run, still averaging 38mpg including b roads.

left it for 5 hours took it out again, went for 3 miles before it went into limp mode, i tried to rev it and it went up to 2000rpm but it started to misfire then it cut out. restartd it and took it again for the same run 20 motorway miles and 5 B roads again 38mpg, but the low down pulling away , under 1500 rpm almost none existant , over 1500 rpm fine .

there was also only a slight puff of smoke on both occasions and both before the car went into limp mode. after that no smoke.

usually the low down lack of pull in the past is linked to the ERG, but i cannot see how that would cause all of the fueling problems

anyone got any ideas, as in some ways the it is getting better not worse

Badger1966 · March 13, 2016

I think it's just going through it's weirdness. All the time being inconsistent, but at the end of the day, still faulty.

Shahpor · March 13, 2016

Is the fault temperature related perhaps? I am under the impression that the symptoms decrease when the weather is warmer outside?

Badger1966 · March 13, 2016

I think so, mine is always better the warmer it is outside.

Badger1966 · March 13, 2016

3 hours ago, mikeyv said:

Simple test, run it without the cap on.

I think so, mine is always better the warmer it is outside. And yes, I will give it a go, Back in a min...

Badger1966 · March 13, 2016

Exactly the same with cap on or off

Badger1966 · March 13, 2016

Just did another test by putting a rubber glove over cap and then screwed it in, thus making a total seal. But no, still goes into limp mode.

mackemade · March 13, 2016

i am going to pull the number 2 and 3 injectors and send them off to be tested and repaired, and see if that makes a difference, i guess by the time i get them back you will have had a fuel pump fitted so one of these should give a positive outcome

mackemade · March 14, 2016

hi Badger

just seen this thread, when lexus did you SCV did they up date the ECU or did they just replace the part ?

http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/topic/165128-verso-t180-hates-cold-mornings/#comment-1367907

Badger1966 · March 14, 2016

Yeh, looked at that and others. I can only assume they did. But I had a good chat to the actual mechanic this morning. Nice chap. And confirmed he tried everything. Pressure sensor, temp sensor, fuel rail, all injectors good, etc etc. Also found out that you need to take rocker cover off to get to pump, which means injectors out. Which is nice as I will have all new seals! And also confirmed, more for you than me, that you will have to code the injectors again to the ecu. Or maybe if you put each one back in the same hole you wont? I don't know.

Badger1966 · March 14, 2016

Forgot to say, they gave ma a rather nice all black with black wheels IS200t, I like it!

Shahpor · March 14, 2016

Nice. No matter how hard I tried, my local dealer never seemed to have a new IS for me to try. Perhaps I look too poor?

Anyway, I assume it is in to have the new pump fitted? Are they charging you for the labour?

Badger1966 · March 14, 2016

Lol, can't look any more poor than me hehehe, Indeed, new pump fitted and first reports look good. It didn't go into limp mode and went well on test drive. Tomorrow morning will be the acid test! And as far as I'm aware, as this is an ongoing issue of them charging me for things that didn't fix it, I don't think i am being charged anything. Certainly no mention of charging me.