2007 Gs450h Hybrid Battery Cell Replacement For $50.

[Malachy]

Is your one the Wicklow reg?? I see it on the N40 most mornings..

[aceswild]

It is indeed Sherlock Holmes ;)

[Malachy]

If you need a good private investigator give me a shout...

[carnut1980]

I seem to have misplaced the 12 inch 12V Battery negative/earth lead. I was cleaning the terminals but now i can't find it anywhere. 

Do you know the part number for it? I can't get the car running until i have it. Cheers

[carnut1980]

@aceswildI seem to have misplaced the 12 inch 12V Battery negative/earth lead. I was cleaning the terminals but now i can't find it anywhere. 

Do you know the part number for it? I can't get the car running until i have it. Cheers

[aceswild]

Can't see a part number on mine (the golf clubs in the way isn't helping though), I'd imagine that it would be a fairly standard lead available from any good motor factors.

[carnut1980]

On 20 October 2015 at 11:41 PM, aceswild said:

I got the dreaded Check Hybrid, Check VSC and Check EBC warning lights. Fault code readings P0A80 Hybrid and P3017 (battery cell block number 7 fault). Having gotten a quote for around €6000 to fix it, I decided to do it myself.

I ordered a battery cell on ebay for €45.00 delivered to Ireland.

Tools needed: Socket set with 8mm, 10mm and 12mm. Flat head screwdriver, long nose pliers and a multi meter to read voltage. (You may also need a slow trickle 12v battery charger, I'll explain later).

Time needed: about 4 hours, more if your connections a very dirty.

1: Remove ALL carpeted paneling from the boot (trunk if you're in the US). This is done by inserting the flathead screwdriver into the black plastic rivets and popping them out. Remove the boot flooring too, just leave the tool tray in place. You will need the 10mm socket to remove the rear boot floor luggage anchor points once you've popped open their plastic covers. The upper hanging points need to be squeezed to remove. Disconnect the power supply to the light on the right hand panel.

2: Remove the orange circuit breaker on the HV battery by sliding to the right and then pulling towards you.

3: Remove the black air duct on the bottom of the HV battery by popping the 2 black plastic rivets.

4: Unplug the power supply to the white cooling fan on the upper right of the HV battery and remove the 2 nuts holding on the fan. This should allow the 2 upper black ducting to move sufficiently to be able to remove them.

5: Open the panel covering the 2 Orange Cables (3 x 8mm nuts) and disconnect the 2 orange cables, (you can tape them up with electrical tape if you so wish). Pull back the rubber cover on the Black cable and unbolt that too. You should now look something like this:

6: Disconnect the cable running from the HV battery to the 12v lead battery. Continue to remove the 12v battery by disconnecting the +ive and -ive terminals and the white connector plugs attaching it the the HV battery. Also need to take off the temp sensor and the vent hose on the 12v battery. Remove the 12v battery support bracket and the battery tray itself.

7: Remove the last 2 bits of black ducting that was clamped by the 12v battery tray.

8: Remove the white tubing on the right of the HV battery.

9: Remove the 4 12mm nuts holding the base of the HV battery in place, 2 on each side.

10: You need to unbolt the nuts hidden behind the back seat headrests.

11: Pull the rear seats forward enough to remove the large plastic panel in the center between the rear seats and the boot wall, its hidden behind the fireproofing fabric. Use this panel cover to hold the seats away from the boot wall by wedging it between seats and wall.

12: Pull back the fireproofing to reveal 2 smaller access panels covered by a black sticky rubber square. Now remove the 3 12mm nuts holding the HV battery to the boot wall.

13: Now the tricky bit, lift the HV battery over the bolts in the boot and slide it out. (I recommend putting cardboard on the tool tray to avoid scratching when sliding the HV battery). If you are strong enough you can lift the HV battery out on your own, if not get help, it weighs about 50 kilos.

Your boot should now look like this with the access panels behind the seats visible:

You should also have this, I placed mine on some cardboard on my kitchen table:

14: Take off the HV battery cover by opening all the 10mm nuts, and a few 8mm. unclip the black cable while taking off the three cover panels.

15: Unclip the black plastic covering on both sides of the HV battery to reveal the 8mm connector nuts in the orange casing.

16: Number the cells 1 to 40 using a permanent marker. Use your multi meter to get a reading across each of the 40 individual cells, i.e. one lead on the +ive terminal of the cell and the other on the -ive, and record your findings, as you can see cell 28 was low for me:

17: Pull back the rubber vent tubing running along the top of the HV battery until to get beyond your bad cell/cells.

18: Remove the white end panel holding the cells in place:

19: Remove the 80 x 8mm nuts in the orange casing and clean if necessary. I used bleach and some sand paper to clean all nuts a copper plates, if you're gonna do it - do it right).

20: Remove the 8mm nuts holding each cell in place underneath until you reach your bad cell (this will probably involve removing the support leg and the converter assembly unit below the HV battery:

21: Good cells look like this

Bad ones like this:

22: Start replacing your cells back into the HV battery, it doesn't matter what order and you can't mess up polarity as it only screws in on one side. I put my new cell in last in case it was a dud. (If your new cell is of a lower or higher voltage use a slow trickle 12v battery charger to get it to the same voltage as the other cells.

23: WATCH THE TEMP SENSORS UNDER THE BATTERY CELLS (3 of them), MAKE SURE YOU CLIP THEM ON AS YOU GO. See the black plastic clip peeping out here:

24: That's it you're done, just reverse everything to put in back in. Mind your back and don't bother touching cell 1 and 40 at the same time if you have the orange connector put back on.

Good Luck!

Hi again. I recently got code p3025. Cell block 15 low voltage or something like that, which occured soon after i was racing someone.

The dash is all lit up, the hybrid Battery fan stays on when this happens (i can hear it in the back), and worst of all , the car dies every few miles. Just the engine and hybrid power. All the electrics still work fine. (New 12v battery)

when it dies, i have to switch off and on again. Its not limp mode, theres no power at all, when it happens.

when i refurbed the Battery cells a few weeks back, i didnt change any, as they were all showing between 7.6 and 7.9v.

I'm guessing i will have to this time but, any ideas why the Battery fan stays on (when the dash lights appear) and why does the engine die?

cheers

[aceswild]

They're exactly the symptoms that I had originally, losing power, blower on etc. Sounds to me like you had an overheat on the Battery. I would try a simple reset first as this may clear it (i.e. try to clear the alarms using a OBDII code reader - available for about €30 on ebay), other than that, it sounds like it's strip down time again my friend. If nothing shows upon the strip down you could be looking at a problem with the HV converter (that's the part where the air duct enters the the silver box unit suspended below the HV battery). Hope this helps.

[carnut1980]

@aceswild Where/how would you go about refurbing the standard 18' wheels on the gs450h? plenty of mobile guys on eBay offer to spray them for £60 apiece, provided theres no corrosion or dents,  but i could do that for a tenner with Halfords stuff. Each rim does have corrosion and dents, i want them back to as new. What would you recommend?

[ColinBarber]

11 hours ago, carnut1980 said:

@aceswild Where/how would you go about refurbing the standard 18' wheels on the gs450h? plenty of mobile guys on ebay offer to spray them for £60 apiece, provided theres no corrosion or dents,  but i could do that for a tenner with halfords stuff. Each rim does have corrosion and dents, i want them back to as new. What would you recommend?

Please keep this thread on-topic. If you want to discuss wheels please start a new topic.

[sota]

Mark, my local Lexus dealer, Tony Burke Motors in Galway are offering a 1 year/15,000 kms hybrid Battery extended warranty for €50 on my 2008 LS600hL. I assume this is available nationwide and according to the service department, I can renew it every year for the same amount. Good value for some peace of mind.

 

Pat

[aceswild]

Pat that's a complete no-brainer, €50 is very good. 15kms is a bit low though, I'd love to see the terms and conditions on it but it sounds great.

 

[Goldberg]

Just got a cell on eBay for £25 its out of a Toyota Prius and its the same cell 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/01-09-TOYOTA-PRIUS-CARMY-HYBRID-PANASONIC-SINGLE-BATTERY-CELL-NIMH-MODULE-/162120050992?hash=item25bf1ba930:g:dOYAAOSwhkRWdbNg

I dont have any problems with my Battery but hey for £25 its worth having a spare cell my question is do i need to keep it topped up and charged ? or can I buy it keep it safe and use it if needed

[ColinBarber]

You shouldn't leave it in a fully discharged state and it will self discharge itself over time. Store in a cool place and charge it every 6 months.

[Goldberg]

thanks for info :)

[timmynuge]

How have other peoples' experiences been with charging up individual modules using a 12V charger?

I've got my pack out, with all modules reading ~7.9 with an obvious bad one at 6.6V.

My donor module is currently at 7.41V. Should I be bringing this one up to a level closer to the others?

 

[Britprius]

On 7/3/2016 at 10:56 PM, ColinBarber said:

You shouldn't leave it in a fully discharged state and it will self discharge itself over time. Store in a cool place and charge it every 6 months.

I beg to differ on this. Nmhi do not suffer problems from being stored in a completely discharged state, and is in fact the desired method of storing this type of cell chemistry. If you charge it every 6 months you will be fully charging it where as in the vehicle it never gets charged above 80% of capacity. This is done to increase dramatically the number of cycles the Battery is capable of.

Charging the modules fully should only be done to balance charge them "bring all the cells within a module to a fully charged state" or if you are going to put the module to use. Then charge it to the same voltage as the other modules in the Battery.

Tim. Charge the replacement module to the same voltage as the others. If you have an old transformer type Battery charger you can use that with a 21watt 12 volt indicator bulb in series with the module to restrict the charge current. If you have a modern switch mode charger I doubt it will work because it will not see enough voltage from the module to trigger the charger.

You may be lucky refurbishing your Battery replacing just one module, but equally you may find yourself playing "whack a mole". There are many many pages of what to do on the Prius chat forum to ensure reliable results, but it is very time consuming (weeks), and requires a methodical approach with lots of patience.

On no account charge the module unless it is clamped at the sides with pieces of timber in a vice or with "G" clamps. Failure to do this will have it blow up like a balloon. 

John.

[timmynuge]

22 hours ago, Britprius said:

Tim. Charge the replacement module to the same voltage as the others. If you have an old transformer type battery charger you can use that with a 21watt 12 volt indicator bulb in series with the module to restrict the charge current. If you have a modern switch mode charger I doubt it will work because it will not see enough voltage from the module to trigger the charger.

.....

On no account charge the module unless it is clamped at the sides with pieces of timber in a vice or with "G" clamps. Failure to do this will have it blow up like a balloon. 

John.

Great, thanks for the advice John - will definitely give that a go. My charger will allow for a trickle charge of 2 amps, but do have a bulb I can throw into the circuit.

Could I perhaps charge the module with it assembled within the pack (without modules connected of course). Would this provide ample pressure on the sides of the module?

Tim

[Britprius]

1 hour ago, timmynuge said:

Great, thanks for the advice John - will definitely give that a go. My charger will allow for a trickle charge of 2 amps, but do have a bulb I can throw into the circuit.

Could I perhaps charge the module with it assembled within the pack (without modules connected of course). Would this provide ample pressure on the sides of the module?

Tim

Yes you can charge the module once it is assembled in the pack as this provides the the correct side support. Although your charger may have a trickle charge rate of 2 amps this assumes a lead acid Battery rated at about 13.2 volts is being charged. Connecting it to one Lexus module with an output of just over half that figure could double that figure of 2 amps. The module voltage should be it's voltage after standing, and not connected to the charger.

The output of one module fitted in the Lexus is only 7.2 volts nominal "this could be as high as 9 volts depending on the level of charge". In use on the car the maximum charge level is 80% with a minimum discharge level of 40%. These are the levels represented by the bar level display, So with one pink bar showing the charge level is at about 45% not nearly zero as some believe.

John.

[carnut1980]

Failing that, buy yourself some low mileage replacements. There are sellers on eBay asking only £25 per unit

[GS450hPurr]

Hello English friends...

This is an awesome post with info to help alot of Hybrid 3rd Gen drivers now suffering the Hybrid Battery failure.  I being one of them.  I'm writing in all the way from the U.S. in hopes of adding some to this post but also have highlighted my two main confusions in RED below.  PLEASE HELP!!! My GS450h wont run now....  I too started getting the failing hybrid check engine light about a year ago.  One thing I am somewhat confused about is when the hybrid Battery finally completely fails, are our GS 450h models still drive-able.  I backed mine into the garage two weeks ago where it has not moved since.  I was following this post a while back and decided I was comfortable giving this DIY a go. 

Ok, well when I moved my car into the garage to start this Hybrid Battery pack diagnosis and repair it was running, but as soon as I pulled the orange disconnect fuse to the Battery pack upon disassembling the trunk/boot in order to remove the Battery pack, I plugged the fuse back in shortly thereafter to start my car and move it some and it would not start up at all.  It's as if the Hybrid Battery completely discharged and now my car will function on 12v (new battery) but won't kick into the gas engine to actually drive.  I knew the hybrid was on it's last leg but shouldn't it at least start up and run on the gas engine?  I literally disconnected the orange hybrid pull fuse and about 45 minutes later reconnected and suddenly it wont drive at all now. 

So now that I've gone this far, I am now 90% disassembled in the trunk and about to remove the hybrid Battery for further evaluation and testing of all 40 modules to see which ones I need to replace.  One place I am stuck at is the small orange circle thing with arrow over the metal cover plate covering the orange power leads.  Not sure how to get this booger off and don't want to break it.  Any suggestions on that too would be helpful in reference to future followers of this thread as well as me! I will come back in and post my pictures and results too.  Thanks everyone!

[beercan]

If the Battery pack fails completely I believe the car will not run, it has internal safety checks to verify the integrity of the Battery pack/hybrid system (in case of accident) and will not turn on unless it passes those tests.  The first check is the safety fuse in the trunk.  It's not enough to just put the fuse back in, you have to slide it fully to engage it, otherwise the car won't start as you've noticed.  Even if the hybrid Battery were fully discharged, I believe that the car would still start if the system was intact and use the gas engine to recharge the Battery.

There are two orange safety plugs, one on the connectors over the high voltage wires and one closing the case of the Battery itself.  they are removed using the tool built into the end of the orange safety fuse in the trunk (so that you can only remove those covers when the fuse itself is disengaged).

[GS450hPurr]

Will a regular 12v trickle charger pickup on the lower Volt capacity modules without overcharging them?

[Britprius]

On 2/20/2017 at 2:36 AM, GS450hPurr said:

Will a regular 12v trickle charger pickup on the lower Volt capacity modules without overcharging them?

The best chargers to use are the Imax B6 mini chargers. These are made for charging, and restoring model car, and plane Nimh batteries.

They can be programmed to charge at any given rate "up to 5 amps" and cut off at a predetermined voltage or auto cut off when the Battery "in the case of Lexus modules 6 cells" is fully charged. The charger self adjusts to the number of cells. They can also be set to charge  lithium batteries, or lead acid batteries. The chargers can also be set to cycle the batteries "fully charge then discharge the batteries" up to 5 times automatically. This can rejuvenate NiMh batteries.

Ordinary 12 volt chargers if left connected to NiMh batteries will overheat the batteries as with this type of chemistry once a cell is charged all energy put in after this point produces heat drying out the cell. The charger must turn off once the cells are charged. 

If fitting one new module in a Battery it must be charged or discharged to the same voltage as the others in the Battery. Failure to do this will bring trouble at a later point.

John

[Britprius]

Refurbishing the high voltage batteries is possible, but do not fall into the trap of thinking, buy a replacement from eBay, throw it in, and all will be well. There is much more to it than this if reliability is required.

The Battery consists of 240 cells in a series chain. The current if being charged or discharged passes through every cell, and as with any chain one weak link "or cell" will brake the chain.

Over time after many thousands of charges and discharges some cells will have less charge than others. This is called being "out of balance". In the most severe case when the Battery is under load "discharge" a low charged cell can be completely discharged, and will then be reverse charged as the load continues on the rest of the Battery. This destroys the cell requiring the module that cell is in to be replaced.

The cells when new have a capacity of 6.5 AH "amp hours". As the cells age this figure goes down. When buying second hand modules from eBay you have know idea of the capacity remaining in them. The voltage measured will still be the same, but the capacity may be 6.5 AH or may be only 2 AH you have no way of telling. The charger named in my previous post will check the actual capacity.

All the modules in your Battery "40" should be checked for capacity, and all should be as equal as possible. None should be below 4 AH and ideally all should be above 5AH 

To do this work properly takes lots of time, but there is no short cut to reliability.

John.