Will Vag Car Owners Pay Higher Taxes?

dave1 · October 3, 2015

The government confirmed today that any reclassification of VAG vehicles won't result in customers having to pay more tax.

What they should be doing is calculating the additional tax for the next 10 years on all the vehicles and then fining VAG for that amount, tripled as the wilfully deceived, and use that money to offset the extra emissions by reducing congestion.

The vehicles pass the EU emissions test as it tests for Co2 and not Carbon Oxide, so what are you going to fine them for? They're going to fit Adblue tanks to existing vehicles including EU ones, to comply with the US test for Carbon Oxide emissions.

Now how about a fine for those manufacturers producing hybrid vehicles because of the damage to health and the environment by the open cast mining methods and both the production and destruction of the batteries? Your hybrid may run partially cleaner than a diesel but getting it on the road is more destructive.

The pollution from cars is a drop in the ocean compared to industry.

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The tests that were rigged were not for Co2 emissions they were for NOX, mainly Nitrogen Dioxide which is the main pollutant from diesel engines. Diesels emit lower amounts of carbon monoxide, hydrocarbons and carbon dioxide than petrol so whilst the Co2 figures will be higher in real life that is also true of every vehicle on the road and will be until they stop testing in lab conditions.. Not really sure what you are referring to when you say Carbon Oxide.

ColinBarber · October 3, 2015

The defeat device also reduced CO2 at the time of testing. This is why the vehicles may now end up in a higher tax bracket.

philthy · October 3, 2015

The defeat device also reduced CO2 at the time of testing. This is why the vehicles may now end up in a higher tax bracket.

It did not defeat the EU testing for Co2. The statement is that the software is fitted to EU5 E189 engines and that VW will recall those vehicles to fit Adblue tanks making the engines EU6 compatible. The government has already confirmed there will be no raising of the VEL for affected vehicles.

A number of manufacturers who passed the EU test have since the VW scandal had sold vehicles retested and show they exceed the EU test by 4 and more times the permitted limit for Co2 and Nitrous Oxides.

Yes my mistake with trying to use Taptalk; I of course meant Nitrous Oxide.

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ColinBarber · October 4, 2015

The government has confirmed that owners will not pay more tax because they purchased the vehicles in good faith. At present it is unknown if the modifications will result in increased CO2 emissions. VW also haven't confirmed what modifications they will be making, certainly no mention of upgrading to EU6.

philthy · October 4, 2015

VW have confirmed that the modification will bring the affected engines up to the EU6 standard. Current owners also do not have to have the modifications if they don't want. The UK VEL is based on Co2 emissions which the EU5 E189 engines pass and which the DfT are happy with. NO HIKE IN VEL FOR EXISTING OR ORDERED VEHICLES.

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Steve McInally · October 21, 2015

The test are carried differently in UK than US and I doubt that they will change the tax rates for the older cars they might implement in the one's coming up next. It might affect the diesel car sale.

philthy · October 21, 2015

The test are carried differently in UK than US and I doubt that they will change the tax rates for the older cars they might implement in the one's coming up next. It might affect the diesel car sale.

The difference between the US and EU test has already been iterated. New vehicles already pass the EU6 standard and the EU test to be adopted in 2017. There will therefore be no hike in VED for new vehicles.

I doubt very much that it will affect diesel car sales. Owners want value for money and a diesel engine is far more economical than a petrol hybrid over journeys where the hybrid motor has little to no use. Until such time as Hydrogen fuel cell vehicles come into mass production from the various manufacturers, diesels will continue to out sell all other engine configurations.

dave1 · October 21, 2015

Until such time as Hydrogen fuel cell vehicles come into mass production from the various manufacturers, diesels will continue to out sell all other engine configurations.

That is your opinion rather than a definite fact. Diesel passenger car sales accounted for 50.1% in UK last year and in the EU 53.6% which is lower year on year from 2011.

philthy · October 21, 2015

So of the 49.9% of sales what are they comprised of? How many hybrids, electric or just petrol? If that 49.9% is the total sales percentage for all configurations other than diesel, then diesels easily out sell them.

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dave1 · October 21, 2015

So of the 49.9% of sales what are they comprised of? How many hybrids, electric or just petrol? If that 49.9% is the total sales percentage for all configurations other than diesel, then diesels easily out sell them.

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It is fairly obvious that if diesel accounted for 50.1% of sales then the 49.9% was for all other types of fuel. My point is that whilst % sales of diesel powered cars has decreased you state that diesel will outsell all other configurations which can only be a matter of opinion at this time. I assume from your post that you are not comparing sales of diesel powered cars to all others but rather comparing them on an individual basis.

philthy · October 21, 2015

Correct.

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rayaans · November 3, 2015

3.0l V6 diesels now affected as of yesterday so Porsche has been dragged into the mix.

My 2nd car was a Passat in yellow with the 1.8T engine. Was a peach but not exactly Lexus.

VW getting too common nowadays and I don't like the hassle of telling insurance companies about the optional extras as I never buy a base model.

I've left my RX450h for 4 weeks and it started first time with no hesitation. The Battery problems are only on older RX models with a smaller Battery. The IS is unaffected. It's usually been due to loose terminals at PDI that causes it

philthy · November 3, 2015

It is only late 2014 engines and only US emissions tests it falls foul of. The EU emissions test is not affected.

There is also debate that the software is actually in operation in the US and is being contested by all.

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philthy · November 3, 2015

I've left my RX450h for 4 weeks and it started first time with no hesitation. The battery problems are only on older RX models with a smaller battery. The IS is unaffected. It's usually been due to loose terminals at PDI that causes it

Not what the Lexus sales staff are willing to put their signature to. The new models seem to be affected just the same as older versions.

My R Line Touareg isn't standard (the standard kit of the R Line is a higher spec than other marques as it is) but listing extras is hardly a chore.

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rayaans · November 4, 2015

I've left my RX450h for 4 weeks and it started first time with no hesitation. The battery problems are only on older RX models with a smaller battery. The IS is unaffected. It's usually been due to loose terminals at PDI that causes it

Not what the Lexus sales staff are willing to put their signature to. The new models seem to be affected just the same as older versions.

My R Line Touareg isn't standard (the standard kit of the R Line is a higher spec than other marques as it is) but listing extras is hardly a chore.

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The sales staff are talking out of their backsides - I know Lexus better than they do, in fact some of them didn't even know the new RX was coming and whether HUD was available on the F-Sport models. and it doesnt affect the newer models as much as it did. The older 400h had issues as it had a smaller Battery. The new cars have standard Battery sizes and its not a problem unless something is loose such as the terminals

It would certainly be a pain phoning up everytime I had to get insurance on an Audi or something to say a massive list of everything on the car especially when you have 2 cars. Would be a PITA if I needed to claim and missed something out by accident too!

Ive gone off VW's now - I dont find them as luxurious as they used to be, more rugged than luxury IMO - especially after coming to Lexus and being pampered by the gliding seats and steering wheel when turning the car on, slow closing windows and the HUGE kit list.

philthy · November 4, 2015

I've left my RX450h for 4 weeks and it started first time with no hesitation. The battery problems are only on older RX models with a smaller battery. The IS is unaffected. It's usually been due to loose terminals at PDI that causes it

Not what the Lexus sales staff are willing to put their signature to. The new models seem to be affected just the same as older versions.

My R Line Touareg isn't standard (the standard kit of the R Line is a higher spec than other marques as it is) but listing extras is hardly a chore.

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The sales staff are talking out of their backsides - I know Lexus better than they do, in fact some of them didn't even know the new RX was coming and whether HUD was available on the F-Sport models. and it doesnt affect the newer models as much as it did. The older 400h had issues as it had a smaller Battery. The new cars have standard Battery sizes and its not a problem unless something is loose such as the terminals

It would certainly be a pain phoning up everytime I had to get insurance on an Audi or something to say a massive list of everything on the car especially when you have 2 cars. Would be a PITA if I needed to claim and missed something out by accident too!

Ive gone off VW's now - I dont find them as luxurious as they used to be, more rugged than luxury IMO - especially after coming to Lexus and being pampered by the gliding seats and steering wheel when turning the car on, slow closing windows and the HUGE kit list.

Lol. You know Lexus better than the sales staff. Very amusing.

Every car has a build code. The insurers can easily check that against the registration or chassis number to get a full specification list. Hardly a chore or a chance of missing something off in a claim.

My Touareg R Line has every luxury of a Lexus RX450H. Whilst they are both designated as SUVs, they are totally different cars. A RX is rarely, if ever, likely to seriously venture off road, whereas a Touareg is and can cope with it even on standard tyres. The Touareg also has a bigger load area with the seats up or down. Does it make the RX a bad car? No it doesn't. But it makes it more of a Chelsea school run car than a proper 4x4.

You hate VW and love Lexus. Whoopy do for you. But all this schadenfreude rhetoric is ill placed. The UK government are not going to take any retrospective steps against VW owners. I will therefore continue to blow my smelly, polluting diesel emissions wherever I go luxuriating in the fuel economy of a big V6 Tdi. Especially in Scotland.

Enjoy your RX. I certainly intend continuing to enjoy my VW Touareg.

noby76 · November 5, 2015

i think the Lexus RX was not built and marketed as an off roader just a fancy 4x4 to criuse in.. the Lexus LX/Toyota Landcruiser's are more capable but saying that, every off road 4x4 has its limits as to what it can handle.

Spacewagon52 · November 5, 2015

Having done a little off-roading I have come to the conclusion it depends on the tyres used and the conditions/terrain encountered.. A good set of mud tyres will get you through some interesting mud swamps. Also I have seen some very well prepared 4x4's (Jeep Wrangler / Land Rover Defender / Range Rover / Jeep Cherokee) - lifted - diff lockers etc- that could not get up a steep grass slope! The only car to make it to the top was an OLD Kia Sportage (£600 worth!) with ordinary tyres!

A friend had a Toyota Colorado Landcruiser and that was a very capable off-road vehicle. Put the correct tyres for the terrain and you would be surprised what some ordinary 4x4's can do. I also agree that every 4x4 can get stuck!

Near Ashford, Kent, there was a Land Rover Off-Road course for potential buyers. The course looked very challenging but it had been designed so that no Land Rover would ever get stuck (hardcore/concrete under the mud!).

rayaans · November 5, 2015

I've left my RX450h for 4 weeks and it started first time with no hesitation. The battery problems are only on older RX models with a smaller battery. The IS is unaffected. It's usually been due to loose terminals at PDI that causes it

Not what the Lexus sales staff are willing to put their signature to. The new models seem to be affected just the same as older versions.

My R Line Touareg isn't standard (the standard kit of the R Line is a higher spec than other marques as it is) but listing extras is hardly a chore.

Sent from my Iphone using Tapatalk

The sales staff are talking out of their backsides - I know Lexus better than they do, in fact some of them didn't even know the new RX was coming and whether HUD was available on the F-Sport models. and it doesnt affect the newer models as much as it did. The older 400h had issues as it had a smaller Battery. The new cars have standard Battery sizes and its not a problem unless something is loose such as the terminals

It would certainly be a pain phoning up everytime I had to get insurance on an Audi or something to say a massive list of everything on the car especially when you have 2 cars. Would be a PITA if I needed to claim and missed something out by accident too!

Ive gone off VW's now - I dont find them as luxurious as they used to be, more rugged than luxury IMO - especially after coming to Lexus and being pampered by the gliding seats and steering wheel when turning the car on, slow closing windows and the HUGE kit list.

Lol. You know Lexus better than the sales staff. Very amusing.

Every car has a build code. The insurers can easily check that against the registration or chassis number to get a full specification list. Hardly a chore or a chance of missing something off in a claim.

My Touareg R Line has every luxury of a Lexus RX450H. Whilst they are both designated as SUVs, they are totally different cars. A RX is rarely, if ever, likely to seriously venture off road, whereas a Touareg is and can cope with it even on standard tyres. The Touareg also has a bigger load area with the seats up or down. Does it make the RX a bad car? No it doesn't. But it makes it more of a Chelsea school run car than a proper 4x4.

You hate VW and love Lexus. Whoopy do for you. But all this schadenfreude rhetoric is ill placed. The UK government are not going to take any retrospective steps against VW owners. I will therefore continue to blow my smelly, polluting diesel emissions wherever I go luxuriating in the fuel economy of a big V6 Tdi. Especially in Scotland.

Enjoy your RX. I certainly intend continuing to enjoy my VW Touareg.

Im not even joking - I do know Lexus better than the sales staff - half of them dont even know the NX300h engine is from the US ES300h and that the "Mesa red" they speak of on the GS is not "mesa red" at all, infact being crimson red which has a different shade and colour code. It is only being changed to Mesa red for the 2016 GS facelift

Their job is to sell cars - not to know anything past the basics - frankly they dont even know that the IS300h F-Sport uses aftermarket sourced tokico shocks! If you go to any Lexus dealer I bet a badger they won't even know who makes the electronic components of the Lexus range - mostly Denso.